Archer's New (and sad) Team [RMT]

[Archer]

I have been having a lot of trouble with this team, mainly due to hax. I sat down and made it in my head when I was separated from my DS and laptop, so I think I made it with the wrong state of Metagame in mind. Anyway, rate away. Be harsh.

The Gang

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Zapdos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 112 HP/252 SAtk/144 Spd
Modest Nature: (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- HP [Ice]
- Extrasensory
- U-Turn
---
Notes: ScarfZappy hurts most leads and provide me with a more versatile special sweeper.

Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
---
Notes: DD Gyara can sweep properly. I found Taunt mostly useless.

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd/
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Brick Break
- Roost
---
Notes: Mix Mence is great at breaking walls, and is also sturdy enough to switch in easily. Roost gives it some extra survivability. Crunch is a poor but viable option over Roost to hit Cressy and other SDef beasts that resist Fighting.

Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Roost
---
Notes: Gliscor, but with AA and Ice Fang to give coverage.

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/6 Atk/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Body Slam
- Crunch
---
Notes: RestTalk Lax is awesome. Crunch over EQ for Gar.

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/244 Atk/12 Def
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Reflect
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
---
Notes: Refleg00se gives team support with Reflect and gives me a decent Outrage resist, Reflecting and OHKOing with Ice Punch.



Any harsh criticism is appreciated if you know what you are talking about. Ta.

OLD POKEMON IN SPOILERS

Spoiler:

Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Toxic
- Haze
---
Notes: Tentacruel has haze to bring down CroCune, which I had serious problems with. HP Electric is proving sad, but this is the closest thing I have to a Gyara counter. Toxic also helps do stuff.

I am seriously considering replacing Tentacruel. It isn't spinning and is basically there for mixape and to Haze CroCune. I want to put Jumpluff in it's place.

Spoiler:

Bronzong @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/48 Atk/112 Def/96 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Gyro Ball
- Hypnosis
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
---
Notes: Almost Standard Bronzong. 48 EVs lets me 2HKO CBTar.

Spoiler:

Lucario (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Aura Sphere
- Dark Pulse
- Vacuum Wave
- HP [Ice]
---
Notes: SpecsLuke. Water Pulse may seem stupid, but it takes down Gliscor, who would otherwise survive and EQ me to death. Trust me, it works. Too slow to hit Dragons, anyway.

Spoiler:

Jumpluff (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 188 Def, 68 SDef, 252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Encore
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder
---
Notes: Encore shuts down any Stat uppers and can switch in and Encore any Ground moves. It's better than people think...

 

[Aquilae]

DD Life Orb Gyarados will take care of your problems, the Bulky variant can't even sweep and Taunt isn't going to be of much use. I would run max speed/max attack Adamant, Waterfall/Stone Edge and the last slot either Bite (which OHKOs Starmie most of the time) or Ice Fang (lets Gyarados get past non-Reflect Celebi or Reflect Celebi below ~75%).

Bronzong shouldn't be aiming to 2HKO CBtar, since CBtar 2HKOs back, unless it is fool enough to switchin to Bronzong. Go with the old standard, 252 HP/152 Attack/96 Def/8 SpD Sassy, or you could go hyper-offensive with Brave 252 Attack which lets Bronzong OHKO non-ScarfGar.

I don't see SpecsLuke working on this team, it doesn't help Gyarados sweep, as it is unable to demolish walls that would give it trouble. You should go standard and use Crunch, demolishing Celebi.

This team is very Gyarados weak at the moment, so I'm going to make quite a big change to your team in order to cover it and accomodate the special threats.

I would recommend Roost Mixmence + ScarfTran over Gliscor and Snorlax,

Salamence @ Life Orb
Rash, 252 SpA/252 Speed/4 HP

Draco Meteor
Fire Blast
Brick Break
Roost

Since 252/252 Bold Blissey has been eschewed for the new ObiBliss (Calm, 252 Def), you don't need the 128 Attack EVs, and its not worth giving up a speed tie with other Salamence.
Intimidate + Flying makes this Mence a nice initial switchin into Hera and Luke, and it packs much more offense than Gliscor would.

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Timid, 252 SpA/224 Speed/34 HP

Fire Blast
Earth Power
Hidden Power [Ice] / Dragon Pulse
Explosion / Toxic / Will-O-Wisp

Well, Timid 224 outspeeds +speed Weavile, and stuff like CS Adamant Heracross. HP Ice gurantees an OHKO on Garchomp, but Dragon Pulse has superior coverage but unfortunately fails to OHKO.

The last slot is of personal preference.

With Mixmence + ScarfTran Luke would be easily removed, Tran resists Extremespeed, Bullet Punch and Hidden Power [Ice] and revenges with Fire Blast/Earth Power. Heatran also makes a good switchin to Azelf and the like, and those which carry Earth Power/Aura Sphere are dealt with by Gyarados.

Over Jumpluff, I would put a Vaporeon with HP Electric helping cover Gyara, with Roar/Wish/Surf.

 

[pokemaniacjason]

somewhat of a mixape weakness.

 

[Skip Shot]

Somewhat of a mixape weakness, but he does have good counters to non HP Ice/Elctric Mixapes (Gyara and Gliscor).

Some things to consider:

What is the percentage of seeing Mantine in OU? Has anyone here seen one? Didn';t think so. Get rid of Return on Gyara, slap an LO on it, put more of an offensive EV set on there (someone give him one), and run Waterfall/ Bite/ EQ/ Dragon Dance.

Ew, Specs Luke. Don't use it, please. LO it and go Crunch/ Swords Dance/ ExSpeed/ Close Combat.

Jumpluff seriously needs to get out of there. Does nothing for your team. Aquilaes Heatran, Mixmence, or a CM Suicune does better in its place, and helps to cover gyara(not heatran, but the latter 2.)

 

[pokemaniacjason]

Somewhat of a mixape weakness, but he does have good counters to non HP Ice/Elctric Mixapes (Gyara and Gliscor).

Some things to consider:

What is the percentage of seeing Mantine in OU? Has anyone here seen one? Didn';t think so. Get rid of Return on Gyara, slap an LO on it, put more of an offensive EV set on there (someone give him one), and run Waterfall/ Bite/ EQ/ Dragon Dance.

Ew, Specs Luke. Don't use it, please. LO it and go Crunch/ Swords Dance/ ExSpeed/ Close Combat.

Jumpluff seriously needs to get out of there. Does nothing for your team. Aquilaes Heatran, Mixmence, or a CM Suicune does better in its place, and helps to cover gyara(not heatran, but the latter 2.)

lol actually, i used to use mantine in OU, for a bulky water/wall and rain dancer. it worked out decently. i just wish it had more HP.

and hp ice to me, is a must for mixape. and i learned that it can definately take out a gliscor(with hp ice) or bronzong(with flamethrower) when they are switching in, expecting a close combat. and it can weaken an incoming gyarados with grass knot on the switch-in expecting another close combat or flamethrower. it just comes down to ver good and precise prediction :)

 

[Angelic Diablo]

Uhh but Mixape hardly carries HP Ice AND Grass Knot, otherwise it is ridiculously easy to counter without the NP boosts.

I don't know about whether you like blowing up Bronzong, but I think it would be better for an Earthquake/Reflect/Light Screen to be in the place (and not just because smogon says so)

 

[pokemaniacjason]

Uhh but Mixape hardly carries HP Ice AND Grass Knot, otherwise it is ridiculously easy to counter without the NP boosts.

I don't know about whether you like blowing up Bronzong, but I think it would be better for an Earthquake/Reflect/Light Screen to be in the place (and not just because smogon says so)

lol.. to most good palyers, nasty plot ape is somewhat of a fail. there are so many mixapes with both of those attack that you mentioned. it is a must. not by opinion, but by fact and results. it is better to have those attacks for coverage rather than just boosting your flamthrower with nasty plot. besides, that is what mixapes are for - type coverage and wall breaking.

 

[Archer]

Jumpluff is being quite helpful. I guess you'd have to see it in action...

The Mantine thing was sort of a joke. Return actually gives better coverage in terms of not being resisted. Surskit also resists EQ & Waterfall.

SpecsLuke is awesome. It also provides a priority move that doesn't require setting up.

Besides, Gyara is already my physical sweeper, no Spec sweeper would really limit me.

Now, Aquilae, sorry I took ages to get to your rate, I have been busy.

DD Life Orb Gyarados will take care of your problems, the Bulky variant can't even sweep and Taunt isn't going to be of much use. I would run max speed/max attack Adamant, Waterfall/Stone Edge and the last slot either Bite (which OHKOs Starmie most of the time) or Ice Fang (lets Gyarados get past non-Reflect Celebi or Reflect Celebi below ~75%).

I was talking to T_S and having thoughts about this and I had planned to do so anyway. Your enthusiasm is reassuring, though.

Bronzong shouldn't be aiming to 2HKO CBtar, since CBtar 2HKOs back, unless it is fool enough to switchin to Bronzong. Go with the old standard, 252 HP/152 Attack/96 Def/8 SpD Sassy, or you could go hyper-offensive with Brave 252 Attack which lets Bronzong OHKO non-ScarfGar.

I found that around that mark was generally useful, then tweaked them to fit. I meant it basically 2HKOs any min HP/Def Tar. I realise that it isn't important, but it sort of helped me choose a number, lol. I feel that those sets are too defensively limited, as I don't see Bronzong primarily as an attacker.

I don't see SpecsLuke working on this team, it doesn't help Gyarados sweep, as it is unable to demolish walls that would give it trouble. You should go standard and use Crunch, demolishing Celebi.

It isn't great for the team, I admit that, I just wanted to try it out. I am personally not too keen on SDLuke as it also has to set up (like Gyara, I mean...), so it doesn't leave me with an "off the bat" attacker. Celebi is definately a problem, though

This team is very Gyarados weak at the moment, so I'm going to make quite a big change to your team in order to cover it and accomodate the special threats.

I need to say that for most of the sets, Jumpluff outspeeds it after a DD, so it can switch in on DD, Waterfall or EQ and Encore it, Sleep it, whatever... Fast sets with Ice Fang/Taunt are an issue, though.

I would recommend Roost Mixmence + ScarfTran over Gliscor and Snorlax,

Salamence @ Life Orb
Rash, 252 SpA/252 Speed/4 HP

Draco Meteor
Fire Blast
Brick Break
Roost

Since 252/252 Bold Blissey has been eschewed for the new ObiBliss (Calm, 252 Def), you don't need the 128 Attack EVs, and its not worth giving up a speed tie with other Salamence.
Intimidate + Flying makes this Mence a nice initial switchin into Hera and Luke, and it packs much more offense than Gliscor would.

Believe me, I like it, but it seems to cut from the team's defensive capabilities - it is not an offensive team.

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Timid, 252 SpA/224 Speed/34 HP

Fire Blast
Earth Power
Hidden Power [Ice] / Dragon Pulse
Explosion / Toxic / Will-O-Wisp

Well, Timid 224 outspeeds +speed Weavile, and stuff like CS Adamant Heracross. HP Ice gurantees an OHKO on Garchomp, but Dragon Pulse has superior coverage but unfortunately fails to OHKO.

The last slot is of personal preference.

With Mixmence + ScarfTran Luke would be easily removed, Tran resists Extremespeed, Bullet Punch and Hidden Power [Ice] and revenges with Fire Blast/Earth Power. Heatran also makes a good switchin to Azelf and the like, and those which carry Earth Power/Aura Sphere are dealt with by Gyarados.

I was considering Heatran and I still may, but I also want to try out Zapdos. See the bottom of the post for more info.

Over Jumpluff, I would put a Vaporeon with HP Electric helping cover Gyara, with Roar/Wish/Surf.

I am considering Vappy, too. I was thinking of the Specs set or this, but I am not keen to remove Jumpluff. Also, I don't want to seem like I'm shooting down all of your advice, it is some of the most helpful I've recieved, I just need to make changes as I go, but I am not prepared to drop half of the team yet.

Here is the Zapdos set I am thinking of (EVs courtesy of T_S):

Zapdos@Choice Scarf
Modest
112 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 144 Spd

U-Turn
Thunderbolt
Hidden Power ICE
Extrasensory

As a lead. I will try it and work on the synergy, but if it doesn't work, I will follow your suggestions, Aqui. Thanks, though.

 

[Angelic Diablo]

Mixape's job is to NP up and sweep, the reason for Close Combat is simple, Blissey, otherwise he would be walled like any other special sweeper.

Breaking walls isn't really hard, especially if the opponents dont know what side of the spectrum your hitting from.

Besides most times when teams are Mixape weak they are talking about Flamethrower/Close Combat/Nasty Plot/HP Ice or Grass Knot versions, anything else is easily countered.

 

[pokemaniacjason]

Mixape's job is to NP up and sweep, the reason for Close Combat is simple, Blissey, otherwise he would be walled like any other special sweeper.

Breaking walls isn't really hard, especially if the opponents dont know what side of the spectrum your hitting from.

Besides most times when teams are Mixape weak they are talking about Flamethrower/Close Combat/Nasty Plot/HP Ice or Grass Knot versions, anything else is easily countered.

lol the only mixapes i saw have used close combat, flamethrower, grass knot and hp ice. who knows, maybe usage is different in different forums, even though i faced mixapes of the same type here.
how can you not have hp ice and grass knot? so dragons and physical grounds can completly wall it? -_-

here is a very old match someone recorded. nasty plot mixape beaten by a ninjask when it could have just used flamethrower and killed it since it did not have a sash. this is a case of greedy and unnecessary nasty plots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2a0AmsXp6I

 

[Anti]

sorry about your thread archer -____-

also mixmence with roost is actually a pretty decent defensive player, especially with heatran. it has a ton of useful resistances and that sexy ground immunity and it's impossibly to set up on with most sweepers.

 

[Sora_8920]

lol the only mixapes i saw have used close combat, flamethrower, grass knot and hp ice. who knows, maybe usage is different in different forums, even though i faced mixapes of the same type here.
how can you not have hp ice and grass knot? so dragons and physical grounds can completly wall it? -_-

here is a very old match someone recorded. nasty plot mixape beaten by a ninjask when it could have just used flamethrower and killed it since it did not have a sash. this is a case of greedy and unnecessary nasty plots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2a0AmsXp6I

Waters (barring Pert) wall a MixApe lacking NP. E.g, Vappy. Even with GK, it still loses to Vappy due to great defenses (special defense in this case) and Vappy can also poop on Infernape with Surf. Obviously the scenario here is you switch Vappy in on Flamethrower or something, then KO it back. Edit: Didn't notice he was banned lol. I was too late to post. :<

 

[Aquilae]

Non-Nasty Plot Mixape has the advantage of not needing to setup and thus risking a faster switchin (read: Starmie) to come in and counter it, and it gains more type coverage through HP [Ice]. NP doesn't help Mixape beat its usual counters, but HP Ice lets it get past Salamence and Dragonite.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Somewhat of a mixape weakness, but he does have good counters to non HP Ice/Elctric Mixapes (Gyara and Gliscor).

Ewwww, NP LO Grass Knot OHKO's Gyarados with SR down. And Gliscor ._., not only does it get obliterated by the same NP Flamethrower, but it also has to think about HP Ice.




Ew, Specs Luke. Don't use it, please. LO it and go Crunch/ Swords Dance/ ExSpeed/ Close Combat.


Specs luke is arguably better at this point in the metagame due to people expecting the more common SD Luke =).Also give him/us one good reason why specs Luke is "eww" and shouldnt be used ?. Think carefully, i said GOOD.

It also should be noted that Mixape runs both of those sets i.e

1. NP/GK/Flamethrower/CC
2. HP ice/CC/GK/Flamethrower

Prepare for both.

As i said on pokelounge countering utility Deoxys-E would be of great benefit to this team, not only does it cover your horrendous Gyarados weakness, aswell as infernape but it also allows you to revenge kill Garchomp.

Deoxys@Leftovers /Life Orb
Timid Nature
252 HP / 184 SP.ATT / 72 SPEED
- Recover
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Plox.

 

[Archer]

Yeah I appreciate the help from anyone who actually gave it, but I am adding Zapdos, what does everyone (who matters) think? See last post for set. It will be leading.

EDIT: I'm also adding MixMence. Although I may be inclined to put a more bulky moveset. Nah...

 

[ABYAY]

Although I have no experience with it, I'm sorta "off the limb" on saying this; watch out for CM Jirachi because if it packs a few CMs and Jumpluff can't get risk switching in, then it can cause problems. Snorlax better get a few Defense drops, or it can just keep wishing. I apologize if you're nowhere Jirachi weak, but it just stands out as a threat in my eyes.

With no Dragon resist, they may be troublesome, but you can beat them with some prediction.

 

[Archer]

Zappy can scare out most dragons with HP Ice and Jumpluff (who is made of organic win) can Switch in and encore anything that doesnt DD with a fast stat to begin with.

Ok, I have the most Discusting Ice/Dragon weakness known to man. I was thinking a steel over Gliscor.
I also seem to have no way of breaking Cressy, so I a might put Crunch over Roost on MixMence and give it some Atk EVs over SAtk.

Any advice on this wall, guys? -> NEEDS STEEL WALL THAT BEATS CHOMP NAO!

 

[Ársa]

Problem is, Fire Blast/Fang is common on Garchomp for that purpose. If you're just worried about switching into Outrage, then quite a few can do it. I dunno though, Gliscor switches into earthquake/SD, and isn't OHKO'd by SD Outrage, and you can OHKO in return with Ice Fang. Zappy can come in and revenge kill Garchomp, and Jumpluff can encore SD's. I don't see it as being an overly massive problem, Gliscor is 3HKO'd after leftovers by non SD'd Outrage, and you OHKO with Ice Fang...

~T_S

 

[Archer]

Well what I meant, is that I have a really serious Ice problem, But I have come to the conlusion that I need Forry to cover my HUGE SR weak. Also I have placed Refleg00se over Jumpluff.

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