Chit-Chat: Back to the Grind(stone)

[pkmin3033]

You know, the recent trend towards subbed only localised titles makes me quite sad. I can understand anime-based games like Sword Art Online etc, but for titles like Nights of Azure - which I still haven't played because of it, despite really looking forward to it prior to that - there really is no excuse not to include a dub. KT in particular seem to be getting really lazy with it.

 

[Cersei Lannister]

I'm surprised that they're subbing and not dubbing titles these days. Is it a money thing or are they doing it for style?

 

[Sir Codin]

Dubbing sometimes makes the work infinitely better.

See: Samurai Pizza Cats

 

[Arsenic]

Yep. The very original. The OG.

And even up to this day, people still use Crysis 1 as a benchmark on how capable their gaming rigs or their gaming lappies are : D

That game was one of the best. Back in High School I used to LAN the crap out of that game. Nothing like strength punching one of your buddies into a building when you're supposed to be doing school work!

Then there was power struggle. I think that is still my favorite gamemode to this day in multiplayer.

 

[pkmin3033]

I think the lack of dubbing is due both to the cost of it versus the sales, and also due to the general reaction to dubs...although I think there is a miscommunication there. It's more the lack of subs that people protest; fans like options, and that's generally misconstrued as dubs = bad and subs = good.

Really, it does come down to personal preference, which is constantly being overlooked by only giving us one or the other. I doubt there would be half as many complaints if dual audio were a consistent thing. Such is life.

Also, I have Star Ocean: Integrity and Faithlessness. Cue excited screaming. The negative reception can go away. It's Star Ocean. All arguments against it are thus invalidated by this.

 

[Cersei Lannister]

What upsets me is when they change stuff. FE: Fates was pretty bad about changing stuff in their localization :/ I'm still upset about petting >.>

 

[machomuu]

To be honest, I'm quite surprised they added petting to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I'm not praising the removal. I think the way it was done turned it more into a waste of time as a feature rather than anything of actual substance. You could do more, faster, and in a more engaging fashion by grinding pairs in MyCastle battles than that room feature, and it largely only further served to show the dissonance between voiced and text personality (which is one of the bigger caveats I have with the game. Looking at you, Dwyer and Nyx).

But it was quite a way to put off the original fans, mostly pandering to those that wanted it for its waifu/husbando elements, which has pretty much been their goal since Awakening. I can understand why, of course, but they had enough serve on their own to really win over that crowd. I personally don't have anything against it, but I probably wouldn't utilize it for the lot of the same reason I haven't played Nekopara.

I'd def pet my kids, though. Too many games these days are sorely missing headpats.

 

[JJ Styles]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/why-its-so-important-quake-champions-runs-at-120hz/1100-6441378/

PC MASTER RACE. So yeah, IdSoft seems to go back to catering to PCs especially with that 120Hz.

 

[ZetaZaku]

Well it's a competitive first person shooter, kind of pointless having it on consoles. Just like CSGO's mostly played on PC for obvious reasons. Even 120Hz aside, mouse precision alone makes playing it on consoles competitively pointless.

 

[Sir Codin]

I think the lack of dubbing is due both to the cost of it versus the sales, and also due to the general reaction to dubs...although I think there is a miscommunication there. It's more the lack of subs that people protest; fans like options, and that's generally misconstrued as dubs = bad and subs = good.

I like to blame weeaboo c***s for spreading this kind of thinking. Some dubs can be bad, but most aren't and I find people who construe dubs as being generally bad just wholesomely obnoxious and it's a huge red flag that the person in question is a Japanophile to an unhealthy degree. Chances are the person in question will also think the katana is the best sword ever invented despite mountains of evidence to the contrary (thin, easily-nicked blade due to being made out of crappy local iron ore and too sharp/brittle to cut anything harder than wood without snapping in half, despite a lot of anime depicting otherwise).

Best way to determine their bias? Show them RWBY. If they complain that the English audio ruins it and they demand "the original Japanese audio with subs," kindly show them why that statement is idiotic and clearly shows their bias against anything that isn't Japanese.

 

[ZetaZaku]

People sometimes behave as if this was the standard for dubs

 

[Sir Codin]

Speaking of katanas being inferior weapons, I so cannot wait for this game to come out:



I've been a real sucker lately for games that have more realistic depictions of medieval warfare.

 

[pkmin3033]

Well, it really is personal preference, as I said. I don't have anything against people who prefer subs; what I object to is developers not giving us the choice of a dub - good or bad - and the original Japanese language. I believe that if you're going to localise a game you should do a full and complete job of it, and that includes re-recording the voices to a language that the audience can understand. It DOES include it, whether you like it or not, whether you want it or not. I mean, you don't see games with dubs but with Japanese text, do you? It's the same thing. If anything it's even more important in my opinion, because voices capture the tone and set the mood.

I suspect a part of that is due to vocal minority feedback when subs haven't been included, but it's more of a developer issue than a fan one - just because some people want subs doesn't mean everyone does; it's no excuse to not do a dub. Dual audio. It's a wonderful concept.

 

[ZetaZaku]

People often don't realize that they CAN'T bring over the dub for every game. For Fire Emblem Fates they had problems because one voice actor was a singer, so they would have to pay additional fees to have the Japanese sound over. It's more complicated than people assume. They don't cut out the Japanese because they don't care, there are always reasons why they don't do it.

Similar thing happens with music in games like Dragon Ball Z and Gundam. Maybe some people weren't aware, but the Budokai Tenkaichi games had the show's OST as BGM, which they couldn't bring over because of licensing. Or Dynasty Warriors Gundam, where the Japanese version has special songs for events from the show (like Char's theme), which they had to cut outside.

 

[Karous]

I prefer subbed because it reflects the original artistic choices of the producers and I'm fascinated by the casting choices that is sometimes lost in the dub. This isn't limited to anime though, this applies to film and non-Japanese media too. That being said, I'm equally sure there are people out there who find text on a screen intrusive artistically, for example white text on a scene that's supposed to be creepy and dark can ruin that.

Actually, I'm more receptive to dubs for Japanese vidya/animu lately because I loathe that stupid ass high pitched schoolgirl voice. It makes my ears bleed. I am no fan of otaku culture and having 90% of under-30 female characters be high on helium instead of sounding like real people is one of those things. Thankfully, dubs make them sound like real people and don't hire Nyanners and co.

In general, I don't try to be stuck with black-and-white thinking. There are awful dubs and there are dubs that make something a lot more enjoyable. This or that is silly thinking in most cases, being flexible is best. I definitely agree with more dual audio, I would be fine with "lazy subs" which is basically putting in the dub's script in the subs instead of translating twice if it helps get more dubs out there (iirc most subs go for translation accuracy whereas dubs make small stylistic changes to fit the mood of the scene/mouth flaps/timing/whatever).

 

[Sir Codin]

I always get a kick out of Maddox's E3 videos:



He is right, tho. They should have renamed it from "E3" to "Zelda Wins, Get Lost Cocksuckers"

 

[machomuu]

I prefer subbed because it reflects the original artistic choices of the producers and I'm fascinated by the casting choices that is sometimes lost in the dub. This isn't limited to anime though, this applies to film and non-Japanese media too. That being said, I'm equally sure there are people out there who find text on a screen intrusive artistically, for example white text on a scene that's supposed to be creepy and dark can ruin that.

See, here's my thing about subs. I hear, every now and again, that people choose subs for integrity's sake. I don't really think this is inherently true, and honestly, I'd say that you run into an inaccuracy problem with subs about as much as you would in dubs. I do often say that raw is the way to go if you want the original experience, and I still think that's true. After all, both a sub and a dub go through the filters of translation and potentially localization. Only real difference is, in most cases, the latter is made up of people who get paid to do it and probably have degrees to support it, while the former is usually a fan effort- usually. But even if that isn't the case, they're subject to the same potential changes. This isn't to say the dubbed efforts can't be shoddy or that subs can't be professional in terms of presentation or writing, but they certainly are subject to the same pitfalls.

This completely unrelated to casting. But that's different altogether, I suppose.

 

[pkmin3033]

The only way you will get the original experience is if you have an innate understanding of Japanese cultural idioms and play an original Japanese title. That is literally the only way you'll get it. Even playing RAW you're going to translate and misinterpret the text in your mind even if you can read it in an attempt to process it. Any sort of translation is a corruption of the original artistic intent, if you want to view it that way. Maybe that is no excuse for some localisation practices, but it doesn't make them any worse on a scale of things either. It's all equally warping things.

...and if we're talking about artistic expression, since art is purely subjective, quantifying what is better or worse is going to be an impossible task. It's quite possible for an interpretation to capture concepts potrayed in the original in a far more comprehensive or meaningful fashion. It all depends on what you want to take away from it.

 

[Satoshi Ookami]

Oh yeah, it's all a question of opinions, absolutely.

I guess I just tie perspective and preference together in this case; one determines the other, and vice versa, which is why I probably misinterpreted your wording earlier there. I think the one thing we CAN agree on is that they're completely separate things - especially in Neptunia's case - and that comparing the two in terms of dialogue is going to be purely subjective.

Yea, we can agree on this.

Neptunia is kind of a game where the rewritten meme script and dub gave characters more personality than they already had.

Interesting view. But if that's the case, it's pretty much not localization but re-styling the game.

Although not even that saved Noire from being a god awful tsundere, which is painful with her Japanese voice actor which is probably the worst VA ever.

Why so much hate for Asami?

It's a bad localization, that's sure, but at least it allows us to enjoy it ironically, while the original is just... well... generic visual/light novel tier with bland and generic characters.

Because that's what Japanese want :P
It's about moe console wars :D
It is supposed to be generic moe blob =D Though, popularity in west made it bigger.

Literally the only good thing about the Japanese version are Yuuki Aoi and Sawashiro Miyuki, and both are so minor that it doesn't really give you a reason to listen to the bland Japanese script.

Because you forgot Kana Hanazawa :P

Best way to determine their bias? Show them RWBY. If they complain that the English audio ruins it and they demand "the original Japanese audio with subs," kindly show them why that statement is idiotic and clearly shows their bias against anything that isn't Japanese.

It's not about the statement. It's about them being idiots because RWBY is not anime so it cannot have "original Japanese audio".
I would still watch RWBY with Japanese voice, because MC is voiced by Saori Hayami, though.

I mean, you don't see games with dubs but with Japanese text, do you? It's the same thing.

You don't? :P
What about Japanese localizations of AAA titles? :P

Not to mention, Zero Time Dilemma =D

Dual audio. It's a wonderful concept.

Oh, how I would wish if Atlus USA knew about this concept...

The only way you will get the original experience is if you have an innate understanding of Japanese cultural idioms and play an original Japanese title. That is literally the only way you'll get it. Even playing RAW you're going to translate and misinterpret the text in your mind even if you can read it in an attempt to process it. Any sort of translation is a corruption of the original artistic intent, if you want to view it that way. Maybe that is no excuse for some localisation practices, but it doesn't make them any worse on a scale of things either. It's all equally warping things.

This is correct in one other aspect.
You see how much the translation is incoherent with the original script and no one actually cares...


@Melo: So... is this what you wanted when you said you miss JRPG talk? xDDDD

 

[pkmin3033]

You don't?

What about Japanese localizations of AAA titles?

In English-speaking countries, I meant. I'm sure you get these things in Japan. I wonder what the Japanese think about that, actually...

Oh, how I would wish if Atlus USA knew about this concept...

It'd be nice if Atlus would pick up a damn map, end of story...

This is correct in one other aspect.
You see how much the translation is incoherent with the original script and no one actually cares...


@Melo: So... is this what you wanted when you said you miss JRPG talk? xDDDD

There is that to it, too. I mean, I know a little Japanese, and I've seen with subtitles in games how incorrect the translation can be when compared to what the characters are actually saying. At least with a dub you have some consistency: what the characters say is what is on the screen. This is also partly why I find localisation of titles without dub to be so irritating - it doesn't translate, or it's translated incorrectly. A proper localisation has a dub that reflects the changes in the translated text, at the very least.

Eh, more or less =P
I think I just missed debating the finer points with you, actually. You're like the anti-me and it's awesome. xD