Best Wishes! and Double Standards...

[Bobbylicious]

Sinnoh had Zoe, Nando, Ursula, Kenny, Paul, the list goes on, and you don't think that's too many?
He's not a rival but he was made as a roadblock for Ash.

Nope. Zoey, Kenny and Paul were the front runners, where as Ursula (who appeared towards the middle-end of the series), and Nando (who disappeared for most of the series and then appeared again at the end), were the "side rivals" so they didn't need as much focus as the first three.

 

[Wobbu]

To be fair, I think the writers should be given some slack for trying to use a larger group of rivals during BW. OS gave us a couple rivals for Ash while lacking any rivals for Brock, Misty, and Tracey. AG expanded on that by giving May a couple rivals. DP took it further by giving Ash and Dawn more rivals than usual, and giving them a mutual rival. However, as mentioned above, a few of DP's rivals didn't appear that often. BW continued the trend by giving all three main characters their own rivals, and by giving the rivals their own rivals too. It was like a web of rivals haha. People are upset because Trip wasn't as good as Paul, but I think people should appreciate that the writers tried to create a more dynamic cast of rivals, which is refreshing and something new to the series that takes its foundation from earlier rival trends.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

To be fair, I think the writers should be given some slack for trying to use a larger group of rivals during BW. OS gave us a couple rivals for Ash while lacking any rivals for Brock, Misty, and Tracey. AG expanded on that by giving May a couple rivals. DP took it further by giving Ash and Dawn more rivals than usual, and giving them a mutual rival. However, as mentioned above, a few of DP's rivals didn't appear that often. BW continued the trend by giving all three main characters their own rivals, and by giving the rivals their own rivals too. It was like a web of rivals haha. People are upset because Trip wasn't as good as Paul, but I think people should appreciate that the writers tried to create a more dynamic cast of rivals, which is refreshing and something new to the series that takes its foundation from earlier rival trends.

Actually, in my case, I would have been angered at Trip largely because Ash lost pathetically to him when he was literally just starting out. Even if I never even heard of Paul beforehand when I saw BW, I would have been utterly disgusted with the fact that Ash lost to an utter rookie, especially as easy as he did. Even with Zekrom, don't forget that Pikachu still had Irontail and thus could have used that to wipe his Pokémon out.

 

[Wobbu]

Actually, in my case, I would have been angered at Trip largely because Ash lost pathetically to him when he was literally just starting out. Even if I never even heard of Paul beforehand when I saw BW, I would have been utterly disgusted with the fact that Ash lost to an utter rookie, especially as easy as he did. Even with Zekrom, don't forget that Pikachu still had Irontail and thus could have used that to wipe his Pokémon out.

No need to dislike Trip since he defeated Ash. That's Ash's fault for not realizing Pikachu couldn't use Electric attacks, not Trip's fault.

The point I want to make is that the entire cast of rivals from BW receives a lot of criticism because of just one character: Trip. The most common argument I see against Trip is that he was a Paul wannabe. Trip was just one of a few of Ash's rivals from that series. Even though Trip had characteristics similar to Paul that weren't displayed very well, Trip ostracized himself from the rest of BW's rivals and doesn't represent any part of the rest of BW's rival scene.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

No need to dislike Trip since he defeated Ash. That's Ash's fault for not realizing Pikachu couldn't use Electric attacks, not Trip's fault.

The point I want to make is that the entire cast of rivals from BW receives a lot of criticism because of just one character: Trip. The most common argument I see against Trip is that he was a Paul wannabe. Trip was just one of a few of Ash's rivals from that series. Even though Trip had characteristics similar to Paul that weren't displayed very well, Trip ostracized himself from the rest of BW's rivals and doesn't represent any part of the rest of BW's rival scene.

Not realizing Pikachu was not using Electric attacks? Last I checked, he faced Team Rocket beforehand and got his butt handed to him. That should have given him a huge clue that Pikachu couldn't use electric attacks. And besides, need I really remind you that Pikachu had Iron Tail, which he often used in lieu of electric attacks? He could use that. There was literally NO excuse for that loss, not even Ash not knowing about Pikachu's current disability courtesy of Zekrom.

 

[Lizardo]

The point I want to make is that the entire cast of rivals from BW receives a lot of criticism because of just one character: Trip.

I really did enjoy watching Langley, Cabernet, Kenyan, and Bel (I find Shooti boring at best, and Kotetsu might be my least favorite character in the entire anime franchise). I think they bounced off each other better than most of the DP rivals did, and brought a lot to most of the episodes they were featured in. And I agree that one bad rival shouldn't bring down everyone else: I can still appreciate Shinji and Nozomi while acknowledging how boring Kengo was and how unnecessary Naoshi ended up being. That said, there's a common issue with all of them that goes far beyond Shooti.

If the writers are going to take the time to introduce recurring rivals to a show, I believe they should serve some kind of purpose connected with the people they're feuding with. Otherwise, what's the point of being a rival? A good majority BW's rivals don't really have that, and what they do have is criminally underdeveloped anyway. Bel and Cabernet never become anything more than a joke, a good amount of Shooti's development happens offscreen and has more to do with Adeku than Satoshi, Langley was lacking in any sort of closure with Iris, and I really don't want to go into everything I found wrong about Kotetsu. Kenyan is the only one who comes out of everything decently, with a very good final battle with Satoshi - the Isshu League's sole highlight - and a final scene with him to depart the series with.

Save for Naoshi (and Kouhei, if you want to count him), even DP's lesser rivals have that much going for them. Kengo is an extremely boring character who I grew to ultimately dislike in his final appearance, but as stupid as that episode was it was at least a form closure that made sense for him. Urara and, to a lesser extent, Musalina make amends with Hikari after she defeats them both in the Grand Festival. Jun has that moment where, after denying it furiously in almost every one of his prior appearances, he finally admits that Satoshi is stronger than him following the Shinji and Takuto battles.

I can't speak for anyone else or whatever problems they may have with the BW rivals, but I found the writing for all of them save for one to be stunningly incompetent given what these same writers were able to do for Shuu, Harley, Shinji, Nozomi, etc. in the past. I can appreciate the cast for the entertainment that they bring, and I can appreciate BW for actually having them interact with each other in a lot of fun ways (I would honestly have loved a Langley and Cabernet episode), but the issues with all but one of them are very significant. And it goes way beyond Shooti.

 

[Famon]

No need to dislike Trip since he defeated Ash. That's Ash's fault for not realizing Pikachu couldn't use Electric attacks, not Trip's fault.

The point I want to make is that the entire cast of rivals from BW receives a lot of criticism because of just one character: Trip. The most common argument I see against Trip is that he was a Paul wannabe. Trip was just one of a few of Ash's rivals from that series. Even though Trip had characteristics similar to Paul that weren't displayed very well, Trip ostracized himself from the rest of BW's rivals and doesn't represent any part of the rest of BW's rival scene.

Trip was a unqualified little Bastard who achieve thing he's unqualified for only because he was Writers favorite !
And he Deserve the hate he get .
Also , stop using ''Zekrem'' to defend Trip ! Pikachu had Iron tail and Its doesn't excuse the 2nd battle between Ash & Trip
FYI : Making Trip losing 2 tournament doesn't prove he wasn't Writers Favorite.
Writer only made him lose So He can get support from Idiotic Fan During Junior Cup ! That why They use Coneckdurr as his fall guy .
Same Goes with Unova League .
Tell me , Why Writer made Ash & Trip's League battle 1 on 1 !!!
Kento league 1st round was 3 on3 ! Since Trip was the Unqualified main rival So 3 on 3 battle was much better choice .
But Writer/ Director decide on 1 on 1 knowing it will disappoint Fans !
WHY ???
Because They knew that losing 1 on 1 battle mean nothing When Trip already beaten Ash in 5 on 5 battle and He were superior then Ash for entire year . Not to mention him Winning Junior Cup unscratched in front of 2 champion .
That Why Writer/Director made it 1 on 1 to protect Trip's Dignity .
They wasted 20 minute on Serperior beating the crap out of Pikachu to glorified Trip in name of suspense.
But that not all ! Those Writer/Director decide to get revenge For Trip by making Ash losing to a even worst Trainer named Cameron in a undignified Way .
Because No Professional writer/Director will come up with such stupid League ! Not even Amateur.

Those Writer/director were pissed because nobody accepted a trash named Trip. So They made Ash lose the Unova league in a worst way .
And now They Ditched all rival in XY Series Because Nobody accepted their Love-Child named Trip.
Even Movie character from Pokemon Move 07 make better rival then BW series.

There no need to stand up for Unqualified main rival named Trip because some people feel sorry for him. The trash got better treatment then Ash ever got in his 20 year life as Protagonist.

 

[Wobbu]

...

I'm not saying BW had better rivals than DP, nor that Trip was the sole reason for the criticism of BW's entire cast of rivals, but I find it surprising how some people are that upset with what the writer's tried to accomplish. The clubsplosion episode arcs were really entertaining and were something new to the series, and that's mostly due to all the rivals. Given the circumstance of Iris not doing anything particularly competitive, it's not surprising that her rival, Georgia, lacked the quality of Dawn's rivals. But at least she got a rival, whereas Misty (who had a near identical role as Iris) never had an actual rival. Even Cilan had his own rival, which is better than no rival like Brock, Tracey, and Clemont. BW's rivals weren't anything extraordinary, but I think the new dynamic makes up for a lot of that.

 

[Piks]

Spoiler:

To be fair, I think the writers should be given some slack for trying to use a larger group of rivals during BW. OS gave us a couple rivals for Ash while lacking any rivals for Brock, Misty, and Tracey. AG expanded on that by giving May a couple rivals. DP took it further by giving Ash and Dawn more rivals than usual, and giving them a mutual rival. However, as mentioned above, a few of DP's rivals didn't appear that often. BW continued the trend by giving all three main characters their own rivals, and by giving the rivals their own rivals too. It was like a web of rivals haha. People are upset because Trip wasn't as good as Paul, but I think people should appreciate that the writers tried to create a more dynamic cast of rivals, which is refreshing and something new to the series that takes its foundation from earlier rival trends.

Nope. Zoey, Kenny and Paul were the front runners, where as Ursula (who appeared towards the middle-end of the series), and Nando (who disappeared for most of the series and then appeared again at the end), were the "side rivals" so they didn't need as much focus as the first three.

If only--

--Ash wasn't Inferior to Trip and beat him down every time to teach him important lesson like how Zoey did with Dawn.

--Ash didn't go back to being an incompetent rookie ! Instate he regain his Narcissist , Attention-seeking , Practical Joking hothead personality While keeping his Competence ,experience and skill from previous series .

--Ash's 4th gym-battle wasn't so embarrassing.

--Ash didn't lose to random people like Bianca Dad for Random reason .

--Almost all Ash Pokemon (except Oshawott due to Marketing) evolved to their final and learn decent move .

-- Iris didn't call Ash ''Kid'' so many time ! Instate she call him Moron , Clueless , Fool impatient idiot etc Random world to descried him .

--Ash wasn't treated like a Punching Bag for Writer/Director favorite character like Trip , Cameron .

--Iris didn't caught a Dragonite ! Instate she raise a Bageon and evolve it to a Salamence at the end of the series.

-- Iris show her talent as Dragon trainer by beating other real Strong Trainer Instate repeatedly Beating Ash to show off her skill.

--Ash win the Junior Cup Instate of Trip whipping out everyone because he has unfinished ''Love-story'' with Alder .

--Ash didn't lose the Unova league to an unqualified idiot like Cameron.

-- N wasn't a useless guy who specialty is getting his ass kicked by other trainer's Pokemon to save another Pokemon and needing protraction from any trainer with Pokemon.

-- The Anime follow the Game Story-plot for Team Plasma Instate of replace it with a trash story from trash amateur writer.

Then Best Wishs might have became a Better series .

To be fair, I think the writers should be given some slack for trying to use a larger group of rivals during BW. OS gave us a couple rivals for Ash while lacking any rivals for Brock, Misty, and Tracey. AG expanded on that by giving May a couple rivals. DP took it further by giving Ash and Dawn more rivals than usual, and giving them a mutual rival. However, as mentioned above, a few of DP's rivals didn't appear that often. BW continued the trend by giving all three main characters their own rivals, and by giving the rivals their own rivals too. It was like a web of rivals haha. People are upset because Trip wasn't as good as Paul, but I think people should appreciate that the writers tried to create a more dynamic cast of rivals, which is refreshing and something new to the series that takes its foundation from earlier rival trends.

Nope. Zoey, Kenny and Paul were the front runners, where as Ursula (who appeared towards the middle-end of the series), and Nando (who disappeared for most of the series and then appeared again at the end), were the "side rivals" so they didn't need as much focus as the first three.

If only--

--Ash wasn't Inferior to Trip and beat him down every time to teach him important lesson like how Zoey did with Dawn.

--Ash didn't go back to being an incompetent rookie ! Instate he regain his Narcissist , Attention-seeking , Practical Joking hothead personality While keeping his Competence ,experience and skill from previous series .

--Ash's 4th gym-battle wasn't so embarrassing.

--Ash didn't lose to random people like Bianca Dad for Random reason .

--Almost all Ash Pokemon (except Oshawott due to Marketing) evolved to their final and learn decent move .

-- Iris didn't call Ash ''Kid'' so many time ! Instate she call him Moron , Clueless , Fool impatient idiot etc Random world to descried him .

--Ash wasn't treated like a Punching Bag for Writer/Director favorite character like Trip , Cameron .

--Iris didn't caught a Dragonite ! Instate she raise a Bageon and evolve it to a Salamence at the end of the series.

-- Iris show her talent as Dragon trainer by beating other real Strong Trainer Instate repeatedly Beating Ash to show off her skill.

--Ash win the Junior Cup Instate of Trip whipping out everyone because he has unfinished ''Love-story'' with Alder .

--Ash didn't lose the Unova league to an unqualified idiot like Cameron.

-- N wasn't a useless guy who specialty is getting his ass kicked by other trainer's Pokemon to save another Pokemon and needing protraction from any trainer with Pokemon.

-- The Anime follow the Game Story-plot for Team Plasma Instate of replace it with a trash story from trash amateur writer.

Then Best Wishs might have became a Better series .

Best Wishes was a much better series, people just don't won't to admit it.

BW Ash being hated is a bunch of bull, besides the fact people have mixed opinions on Ash during the BW era.

The Unova League great but it was way too overrush, but much better then the Hoenn League and the Sinnoh League which wasn't all that great anyways.


All i'm going to say is Paul was the worst idea of a rival and i'm happy that he won't ever return to the show, atleast the writers gotten a lot more better with the BW rivals.

The DP rivals were poorly written and Dawn was the worst female character to ever be added to the show since May, Thank god for Iris because she was a lot more better.

Diamond and Pearl series was a piece of trash, everything about that series was crap and the animation was uninteresting.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Best Wishes was a much better series, people just don't won't to admit it.

BW Ash being hated is a bunch of bull, besides the fact people have mixed opinions on Ash during the BW era.

The Unova League great but it was way too overrush, but much better then the Hoenn League and the Sinnoh League which wasn't all that great anyways.


All i'm going to say is Paul was the worst idea of a rival and i'm happy that he won't ever return to the show, atleast the writers gotten a lot more better with the BW rivals.

The DP rivals were poorly written and Dawn was the worst female character to ever be added to the show since May, Thank god for Iris because she was a lot more better.

Diamond and Pearl series was a piece of trash, everything about that series was crap and the animation was uninteresting.

I'll give you Dawn and your implication that May was the worst girl before her, but other than that, I'm not so sure.

I don't like AG's turn-out (heck, before BW, I considered THAT the worst series ever for a variety of reasons, including Misty's departure, the butchering of May's character, basically depicting the Hoenn Gym Leaders as total pansies comparable to Team Rocket in Ash Catches a Pokémon [which is made even worse in light of the poorly written reason behind Misty's departure], basically Team Rocket not actually being depicted as actual credible threats and if anything Team Magma made their presence completely unnecessary, Brock having even less use than in Johto [and considering he had little use in that region despite the games Johto debuted in basically introducing the breeding mechanic, that's saying a lot], and, of course, Ash basically not increasing in rank, especially worse when Johto basically HAD Ash increasing in rank.), but at least Ash didn't decrease in rank at all in that league (not that it makes things any better, since it also means AG was effectively skippable as a result), while in BW, Ash did decrease in rank, and worse, he lost to someone who was a total idiot, making even BW Ash seem smart (and keep in mind that series basically seemed to give him brain damage, making even Indigo League Ash seem like a genius.). Say what you will about Tobias, as I'm ticked off at Ash losing to Tobias and his legendaries (especially Pikachu losing in light of the Regice battle where he effectively defeated it with little effort), but at least he actually knew what he was doing and more importantly was not a complete idiot. You don't like DP? Fine, but at least acknowledge that Ash at least improved in DP, especially when in the league before that, he didn't improve at all.

Besides, even Original Series Ash didn't mistake a human being like Iris for a Pokémon like Axew. And honestly, having Ash lose to Trip, twice, despite his actually being much more experienced than the latter who was LITERALLY just starting out (and the second time didn't even have Zekrom as an excuse, not that Ash not knowing about Pikachu's disability should even be used as a reason for the first loss since it came right after he had his butt handed to him by Team Rocket.), was just the worst turnout.

 

[Famon]

Spoiler:

Best Wishes was a much better series, people just don't won't to admit it.

BW Ash being hated is a bunch of bull, besides the fact people have mixed opinions on Ash during the BW era.

The Unova League great but it was way too overrush, but much better then the Hoenn League and the Sinnoh League which wasn't all that great anyways.


All i'm going to say is Paul was the worst idea of a rival and i'm happy that he won't ever return to the show, atleast the writers gotten a lot more better with the BW rivals.

The DP rivals were poorly written and Dawn was the worst female character to ever be added to the show since May, Thank god for Iris because she was a lot more better.

Diamond and Pearl series was a piece of trash, everything about that series was crap and the animation was uninteresting.

 

[Detective Benny]

Nope. Zoey, Kenny and Paul were the front runners, where as Ursula (who appeared towards the middle-end of the series), and Nando (who disappeared for most of the series and then appeared again at the end), were the "side rivals" so they didn't need as much focus as the first three.

Doesn't mean they weren't poorly done, though. The bolded part in particular - Lazy writing.

Best Wishes was a much better series, people just don't won't to admit it.

BW Ash being hated is a bunch of bull, besides the fact people have mixed opinions on Ash during the BW era.

Not to mention that Pokemon fan sites are a vocal minority.

The Unova League great but it was way too overrush, but much better then the Hoenn League and the Sinnoh League which wasn't all that great anyways.

The Hoenn League really was nothing special. The Sinnoh league sucked because the other rivals ended up being used as a stepping stone for Ash vs. Paul, which ended up being a stepping stone for Ash vs. Tobias.

All i'm going to say is Paul was the worst idea of a rival and i'm happy that he won't ever return to the show, atleast the writers gotten a lot more better with the BW rivals.

The DP rivals were poorly written and Dawn was the worst female character to ever be added to the show since May, Thank god for Iris because she was a lot more better.

Agreed.

I think Serena is the worst, but she comes second.

Diamond and Pearl series was a piece of trash, everything about that series was crap and the animation was uninteresting.

Yes, it is.

You didn't actually refute anything he said.

 

[Lizardo]

I'm not saying BW had better rivals than DP, nor that Trip was the sole reason for the criticism of BW's entire cast of rivals, but I find it surprising how some people are that upset with what the writer's tried to accomplish.

The line I quoted gave me the impression that you were suggesting that people were allowing their feelings on Shooti alone to cloud their perceptions of the rest of BW's rivals. I was just arguing that even aside from him, those rivals were all plagued by some truly awful writing that warrants criticism. If that's not the case, I apologize. I agree that most of them were entertaining in their own way, but whatever the writers were intended they ultimately came across as some of the best examples of BW's flaws. Also, I never thought you were saying they were better than the DP rivals. I was just using them for comparison's sake.

Diamond and Pearl series was a piece of trash, everything about that series was crap and the animation was uninteresting.

I'd like to ask a question: how is it that almost every post you make about BW eventually just becomes an attack on DP? Genuinely curious here.

 

[Bobbylicious]

Great come back!!!1!11!!1!!!11

The fact that you have to rely on a .gif and are unable to actually put up any points/views to counter the previous posters opinions really just makes you look close minded, unable to have a discussion, and can't handle when people disagree with you, whether or not it's the right or wrong answer.
Seriously, disagreeing with others is fine but when you go say their opinions are "wrong", then you probably shouldn't be discussing said topic if you can't handle a different opinion.

Doesn't mean they weren't poorly done, though. The bolded part in particular - Lazy writing.

Like I said, they were more so "side rivals". I don't think they needed a lot of focus. And personally, I think Ursula was ok, imo, at least. It was more Nando who got screwed over, but I think that was more that they originally planned to have him get more focus, but then for whatever reasons, pulled him away, making him disappear for most of the season, and appearing at the end. I probably wouldn't go as far to say it was "lazy writing", because I'm sure they had their reasons to omit him, but I get your saying, and agree with you, for Nando at least.

 

[Wobbu]

The line I quoted gave me the impression that you were suggesting that people were allowing their feelings on Shooti alone to cloud their perceptions of the rest of BW's rivals. I was just arguing that even aside from him, those rivals were all plagued by some truly awful writing that warrants criticism. If that's not the case, I apologize. I agree that most of them were entertaining in their own way, but whatever the writers were intended they ultimately came across as some of the best examples of BW's flaws. Also, I never thought you were saying they were better than the DP rivals. I was just using them for comparison's sake.

Nah, it's just that Trip speaks less for the rest of BW's rivals than what people think. All rivals have their flaws as you mentioned, but it was fun seeing all of them interact with each other every once in a while. BW's rivals could definitely have had more purpose, but it was nice to see the cast of rivals being a little different for once, rather than solely being one step ahead of the main character who they rival. However, with that said, it was unfortunate that BW's rivals didn't inspire Ash, Iris, and Cilan to improve themselves as much as I wold have liked. It was more of a friendly rivalry rather than actual rivals, kind of like how the rivals are in the games.

 

[Piks]

Spoiler:

I'll give you Dawn and your implication that May was the worst girl before her, but other than that, I'm not so sure.

I don't like AG's turn-out (heck, before BW, I considered THAT the worst series ever for a variety of reasons, including Misty's departure, the butchering of May's character, basically depicting the Hoenn Gym Leaders as total pansies comparable to Team Rocket in Ash Catches a Pokémon [which is made even worse in light of the poorly written reason behind Misty's departure], basically Team Rocket not actually being depicted as actual credible threats and if anything Team Magma made their presence completely unnecessary, Brock having even less use than in Johto [and considering he had little use in that region despite the games Johto debuted in basically introducing the breeding mechanic, that's saying a lot], and, of course, Ash basically not increasing in rank, especially worse when Johto basically HAD Ash increasing in rank.), but at least Ash didn't decrease in rank at all in that league (not that it makes things any better, since it also means AG was effectively skippable as a result), while in BW, Ash did decrease in rank, and worse, he lost to someone who was a total idiot, making even BW Ash seem smart (and keep in mind that series basically seemed to give him brain damage, making even Indigo League Ash seem like a genius.). Say what you will about Tobias, as I'm ticked off at Ash losing to Tobias and his legendaries (especially Pikachu losing in light of the Regice battle where he effectively defeated it with little effort), but at least he actually knew what he was doing and more importantly was not a complete idiot. You don't like DP? Fine, but at least acknowledge that Ash at least improved in DP, especially when in the league before that, he didn't improve at all.

Besides, even Original Series Ash didn't mistake a human being like Iris for a Pokémon like Axew. And honestly, having Ash lose to Trip, twice, despite his actually being much more experienced than the latter who was LITERALLY just starting out (and the second time didn't even have Zekrom as an excuse, not that Ash not knowing about Pikachu's disability should even be used as a reason for the first loss since it came right after he had his butt handed to him by Team Rocket.), was just the worst turnout.

The line I quoted gave me the impression that you were suggesting that people were allowing their feelings on Shooti alone to cloud their perceptions of the rest of BW's rivals. I was just arguing that even aside from him, those rivals were all plagued by some truly awful writing that warrants criticism. If that's not the case, I apologize. I agree that most of them were entertaining in their own way, but whatever the writers were intended they ultimately came across as some of the best examples of BW's flaws. Also, I never thought you were saying they were better than the DP rivals. I was just using them for comparison's sake.


I'd like to ask a question: how is it that almost every post you make about BW eventually just becomes an attack on DP? Genuinely curious here.

I'll give you Dawn and your implication that May was the worst girl before her, but other than that, I'm not so sure.

I don't like AG's turn-out (heck, before BW, I considered THAT the worst series ever for a variety of reasons, including Misty's departure, the butchering of May's character, basically depicting the Hoenn Gym Leaders as total pansies comparable to Team Rocket in Ash Catches a Pokémon [which is made even worse in light of the poorly written reason behind Misty's departure], basically Team Rocket not actually being depicted as actual credible threats and if anything Team Magma made their presence completely unnecessary, Brock having even less use than in Johto [and considering he had little use in that region despite the games Johto debuted in basically introducing the breeding mechanic, that's saying a lot], and, of course, Ash basically not increasing in rank, especially worse when Johto basically HAD Ash increasing in rank.), but at least Ash didn't decrease in rank at all in that league (not that it makes things any better, since it also means AG was effectively skippable as a result), while in BW, Ash did decrease in rank, and worse, he lost to someone who was a total idiot, making even BW Ash seem smart (and keep in mind that series basically seemed to give him brain damage, making even Indigo League Ash seem like a genius.). Say what you will about Tobias, as I'm ticked off at Ash losing to Tobias and his legendaries (especially Pikachu losing in light of the Regice battle where he effectively defeated it with little effort), but at least he actually knew what he was doing and more importantly was not a complete idiot. You don't like DP? Fine, but at least acknowledge that Ash at least improved in DP, especially when in the league before that, he didn't improve at all.

Besides, even Original Series Ash didn't mistake a human being like Iris for a Pokémon like Axew. And honestly, having Ash lose to Trip, twice, despite his actually being much more experienced than the latter who was LITERALLY just starting out (and the second time didn't even have Zekrom as an excuse, not that Ash not knowing about Pikachu's disability should even be used as a reason for the first loss since it came right after he had his butt handed to him by Team Rocket.), was just the worst turnout.

The line I quoted gave me the impression that you were suggesting that people were allowing their feelings on Shooti alone to cloud their perceptions of the rest of BW's rivals. I was just arguing that even aside from him, those rivals were all plagued by some truly awful writing that warrants criticism. If that's not the case, I apologize. I agree that most of them were entertaining in their own way, but whatever the writers were intended they ultimately came across as some of the best examples of BW's flaws. Also, I never thought you were saying they were better than the DP rivals. I was just using them for comparison's sake.


I'd like to ask a question: how is it that almost every post you make about BW eventually just becomes an attack on DP? Genuinely curious here.

The reason why i bring up DP because it had a lot flaws just like anyother series, and i know BW wasn't perfect ether, it also had flaws of it's own.

Ash was pretty much the same in DP the only improvement he made was to get to the
top 4 and that was about it, that's not really enough to say that he improved in Sinnoh at all, because he should of made it to the top 2 not the top 4.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

The reason why i bring up DP because it had a lot flaws just like anyother series, and i know BW wasn't perfect ether, it also had flaws of it's own.

Ash was pretty much the same in DP the only improvement he made was to get to the
top 4 and that was about it, that's not really enough to say that he improved in Sinnoh at all, because he should of made it to the top 2 not the top 4.

At least he actually increased a rank (which considering that strongly implies he got better, especially in DP where they even made sure to note that this was the first time he ever got as far as Top 4, is the best we can get regarding improvements) instead of, you know, staying at the rank he already had again, or worse, actually decreasing in rank. I wasn't particularly happy with the Tobias ending, and maybe if the writers actually made sure to get through the series instead of just dilly-dallying and thinking that they had all the time in the world under the arrogant belief that IF a new generation was to come out it would be a long time before it got there (and believe me, the fact that we didn't get ANY hints at Generation 5 at all until the Zoroark movie, not to mention we didn't even get any hints that, when the Gen 5 anime series was unveiled, Ash would even be in it until around the time he lost to Tobias, plus the heavy foreshadowing at Ash actually challenging the Elite 4 cup, strongly indicated that Ash actually was going to at the very least win the Sinnoh League and possibly even finally achieve the rank of Pokémon Master by beating the Elite 4 and Champion), we probably WOULD have had Ash actually win the league and at the very least have him fight the Elite 4 if not beat them and Cynthia, but nonetheless, at least he actually increased in rank, which is still better than Unova/Best Wishes turnout (not to mention even the Tobias fight was still better than Cameron. Sure, using Legendaries to win was somewhat cheap, not to mention completely contradicts Pikachu's win against Brandon even WITH the depowering excuse, but at least Tobias actually knew what he was doing. Cameron on the other hand somehow managed to win against Ash DESPITE being even more of an idiot than even BW Ash and as such clearly not even knowing what he is doing). And at least DP Ash didn't lose to a complete and utter rookie who was literally just starting out, unlike BW, where Ash actually did do such a thing, twice even, and the second time didn't even have Zekrom as an arguable excuse. Nor did DP Ash end up losing to someone who rivaled even him in terms of stupidity, unlike what BW Ash ended up doing against Cameron in BW.

 

[Lizardo]

The reason why i bring up DP because it had a lot flaws just like anyother series, and i know BW wasn't perfect ether, it also had flaws of it's own.

The reason I ask is that you always seem to single out DP in particular.

Ash was pretty much the same in DP the only improvement he made was to get to the
top 4 and that was about it, that's not really enough to say that he improved in Sinnoh at all, because he should of made it to the top 2 not the top 4.

Even if the ranking alone doesn't do anything for you, given that no less than five characters - including the Sinnoh region Champion - all acknowledge Satoshi's strength at some point during the Sinnoh League after seeing him battle, I don't understand how you can claim that he hadn't improved at all.

The Sinnoh League wasn't perfect. Although Satoshi-Kouhei and Satoshi-Takuto are solid enough, most of the effort is clearly put into the three-part Satoshi-Shinji battle and the resolution of their storyline. But it does far more to demonstrate Satoshi's skills as a trainer than the Isshu League ever did.

 

[Famon]

Great come back!!!1!11!!1!!!11

The fact that you have to rely on a .gif and are unable to actually put up any points/views to counter the previous posters opinions really just makes you look close minded, unable to have a discussion, and can't handle when people disagree with you, whether or not it's the right or wrong answer.
Seriously, disagreeing with others is fine but when you go say their opinions are "wrong", then you probably shouldn't be discussing said topic if you can't handle a different opinion.

Did you ever read this guy Post ???
Or else You would know this guy only post his claim But he never post any point to support his claim.
He already post similar post like this and I replied back with proper answer But he kept on replied me his claim instate of providing any proof of them.
There is no point in arguing with anyone who repeatedly claim that The Sun raise from the South even if You show him the Sun raising from the east .

Oh , As For Iris earning Dragonite , How Did she earned it ???
Oh Because she defended him and use magic power to see its Past !!!
If I remember correctly , Ash also help a lot of Pokemon But he only allowed to catch those pokemon which are common and Ordinary !!!
There noway Ash would get rare Pokemon like Dragonite or Tokekiss even if he dies for them.
Oh , Wasn't Ash nearly died to save a Dragonair ? Not to mention him risking his life to save Garchomp in XY Series Or helping a Riolu in DP series!!
Ash ''Earned'' them But Still wasn't allowed to catch them because they are too special .
Iris never ''Earned'' Dragonite ! Director/Writer just handed a Free Dragonite in a way So Idiotic fan believe she earned it .
If Director/Writer want hand Clemont a Free Raikou then they will show Clemont saving Raikou and helping it with his knowledge over Electric Pokemon But it still won't make it right Since We can't imagine Ash to catch a Legendary Pokemon even if their so many of them we want Ash to catch.

Don't try to pull Goodra into it !!
Ash was only allowed to catch it because its weaker then other Psuedo legendary like Dragonite and it look's like a Mascot from a Theme Park or Kids Show.
Plus , Director/writer isn't handing a free Goodra to Ash's hand !
He has to train a Weak Goomy and evolve it all the way to Goodra ! THAT CALL ''EARNING''.
So , Try to claim Iris ''Earned'' Dragonite When Ash get a Free Fully evolved Metagross Or Lucario .

 

[Bobbylicious]

[snip]

You need to take a break from the internet, seriously.