5th Gen BW Compatibility Deception

[Zayin]

Were you deceived when you learnt Black and White were not fully compatible with HG/SS and D/P/P games since only migrating is possible? Discuss.

I was very disappointed. Back in the days, it was possible to trade and battle between Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow and G/S/C as long as only first gen Pokemon and moves were used. Since I bought both SSilver and Black at the same time, I feel like training a perfect team in SS is useless.

 

[The 100 Mega Shock]

I'd rather take the ability to re-work move properties over previous gen battling compatibility.

I'm pretty sure Gen II never had battling compatibility with Gen I because of the massive amount of bug-fixes and move changes the battle engine received (also several Pokémon changing typing), either.

 

[Misheard Whisper]

Gen I-II only had limited transfer compatibility.
Gen II-III had no compatibility whatsoever.
Gen III-IV only had one-way transfer compatibility.
Gen IV-V now only have one-way transfer compatibility.

Y u so mad?

 

[The 100 Mega Shock]

it was kinda two way but you had to keep jettisoning Gen II moves and removing held items so it got annoying in the end

 

[Amore]

So, it was sort of full compatability from Gen I-II, but from Gen II-I it was partial compatability, right?

Still, don't complain...Gen I can't be linked to Gen III, yet Gen III can be indirectly linked to Gen V...that's pretty good if you ask me.

 

[Zayin]

Lol guys, I can be disappointed if I want to. It's really silly to judge my opinion. I'm just curious in reading about other's view on the matter.

For those not believing what I'm saying:

Pokémon can be traded between Generation I and Generation II games using the Time Capsule feature. For compatibility purposes, the Pokémon to be traded from the Generation II game must be a species that existed in Generation I and cannot have any moves introduced in Generation II.

As well as trading with each other and Pokémon Yellow, Pokémon Red and Blue can trade Pokémon with the second generation of Pokémon games: Pokémon Gold, Silver, and Crystal. However, there are limitations: the games cannot link together if one player's party contains Pokémon or moves introduced in the second generation games.

Retrived on Bulbapedia

I especially miss the possibility of battling between the two generations. If it was programmable for the first games, it could as well be for those of today. [Edit] To me, it's not as bad for the compatibility between gen III and prior because of no internet access. Why couldn't the GTS and wi-fi battle system of gen IV and V be connected? It'd be more fun and more efficient.

 

[Starrodkirby86]

Huh. What do you exactly mean with "battling across two generations"? You're not talking about a direct battle between cartridge to cartridge, are you? Are you talking about trading some of the Pokémon you found in GSC to RBY for a cool fight in RBY, vice versa, or the fact that you can connect them into Pokémon Stadium 2 and have fun there...? I don't know, I'm just a little confused, sorry. xD

I didn't actually feel disappointed or anything, really. Initially, I was under the impression that there was improvement over cross-generation compatibility, but in the fact that there wasn't, I understood and just continued my thing. Sad that I don't have two DS's to make some cross generation fun though. :c

...At least I like how there's no time limitation in said migration, so maybe that's why I'm not disappointed. :v

 

[Zayin]

Huh. What do you exactly mean with "battling across two generations"? You're not talking about a direct battle between cartridge to cartridge, are you?

Just read my second post if you didn't ^^. But yeah, you could battle/trade as long as there were only gen 1 Pokemon in your party.

 

[vash_aurion]

I think that the source of our collective confusing, Zaiyin, is that we don't understand why you are disappointed. As far as I'm concerned, not being able to battle across generations of Pokemon game is more or less identical to not being able to use a bugged version of an online PC game to play against people with the patched version. That's par for the course.

More importantly, there are technical limitations. For example, fifth gen seems to have some slightly different damage calculations and other tweaks. The games would run the same numbers differently, which makes for a very difficult battle to actually play or follow.

I am far more annoyed that, even given the Global Link and the ability to do a lot of stuff just by sending stuff to a server, you need two freakin' DS consoles to migrate pokes! That's some money-grubbing crap!

 

[Urist McHemlock]

But there is a glitch between trading a Gen 1 Machoke to Gen 2. Get the Machoke at the level that it learns Cross Chop in gen 2. Trade the Machoke, it will evolve into a Machamp. The Machamp will learn Cross Chop(If you do want it). Since you still in the time capsule, you are able to trade the Machamp with Cross Chop back to R/B/Y and it will have the glitch move TM38, which freezes the game if the opponent's pokemon doesn't faint and has an accuracy of 0%. Same thing happens when you trade a Machoke in R/B/Y at lvl 34 and you trade it to G/S/C. The Machamp will get Vital Throw, and it is in the time capsule, trade it to R/B/Y and Machamp will have Glitch Move TM33 which is actually useful. Normal Move, 119 Power, 47% Accuracy, 49 Base PP and it will have the effect of absorb. Other Glitch Moves from Gen II moves can be found here. https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Glitch_move Also that is the source I used. But, I really am suprised on BW Compatibility Deception, but I got Soulsilver and then I got Black.

 

[Zayin]

But there is a glitch between trading a Gen 1 Machoke to Gen 2. Get the Machoke at the level that it learns Cross Chop in gen 2. Trade the Machoke, it will evolve into a Machamp. The Machamp will learn Cross Chop(If you do want it). Since you still in the time capsule, you are able to trade the Machamp with Cross Chop back to R/B/Y and it will have the glitch move TM38, which freezes the game if the opponent's pokemon doesn't faint and has an accuracy of 0%. Same thing happens when you trade a Machoke in R/B/Y at lvl 34 and you trade it to G/S/C. The Machamp will get Vital Throw, and it is in the time capsule, trade it to R/B/Y and Machamp will have Glitch Move TM33 which is actually useful. Normal Move, 119 Power, 47% Accuracy, 49 Base PP and it will have the effect of absorb. Other Glitch Moves from Gen II moves can be found here. https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Glitch_move Also that is the source I used. But, I really am suprised on BW Compatibility Deception, but I got Soulsilver and then I got Black.

That's funny :P. Still, that's not a reason to stop making games with backwards compatibility in both directions! The first generation games were a lot more glitchy than those of III-IV-V.

I think that the source of our collective confusing, Zaiyin, is that we don't understand why you are disappointed. As far as I'm concerned, not being able to battle across generations of Pokemon game is more or less identical to not being able to use a bugged version of an online PC game to play against people with the patched version. That's par for the course.

More importantly, there are technical limitations. For example, fifth gen seems to have some slightly different damage calculations and other tweaks. The games would run the same numbers differently, which makes for a very difficult battle to actually play or follow.

It's really different from a patched online PC game vs an older version. Both generations are on the shelves at the same time. All of these games are almost bugless; gen V is not simply a less buggy version of gen IV.

There are technical limitations at first glance for sure, but that's the engineers' and technicians' job to solve them. Plus, both IV and V generations were possibly developed at the same time (at least HGSS/BW) so solutions could have been found for sure.

I don't understand why you don't understand my point either! I simply wished it was possible to battle a friend using SS for instance while I use some gen IV Pokemon on my Black, and then trade (analogously doing the same via Nintendo Wi-fi). Pokemon games are high quality games, so I wonder why those technical limitations were not solved. I find it strange that Pokemon games being sold at the same time aren't more compatible.

I won't die that such a function lacks in Black and White, but it would have been an enjoyable extra. I didn't start crying and swearing when I realised it, but I thought, meh, that's a flaw.

 

[Zayin]

There's no battle compatibility with RBY and GSC. You can only trade between them.

You have to make a lot of considerations when trying to do backwards compatibility. It's not trivial to do. You have to restrict this, restrict that, convert data to data that's compatible with the older game… It would be easier for them if they made the games forwards-compatible to begin with so that backwards compatibility would work. They didn't.

Given that, it'd require much less effort / money to cut compatibility off altogether.

Are you sure? I really think I battled with a friend a few times. It was so long ago though. Still, it doesn't change the fact I would enjoy it now and that's the point of this topic =).

I think Nintendo implements a lot of extra stuff that isn't needed. Just look at the Dream World. It sure required a lot of work and is pretty useless when you think about it (super fun, I go each day, but it could have never existed). Same thing would apply to compatibility. Anyway, Game Freak must have a reason for not implementing it, I'm still just asking about people's opinion ^^.

 

[PokéSwimmer]

Are you sure? I really think I battled with a friend a few times. It was so long ago though. Still, it doesn't change the fact I would enjoy it now and that's the point of this topic =).

I think Nintendo implements a lot of extra stuff that isn't needed. Just look at the Dream World. It sure required a lot of work and is pretty useless when you think about it (super fun, I go each day, but it could have never existed). Same thing would apply to compatibility. Anyway, Game Freak must have a reason for not implementing it, I'm still just asking about people's opinion ^^.

There was only trading between generations, but battling could still be done via Pokémon Stadium 2 (which I did ALL the time). I kind of wish we had trading between Generations, but at least we still have transferring, so I'm not too bummed out. I'm just hoping that if we have another PBR/Stadium/Colosseum styled game that it will maintain the same type of compatibility that Stadium 2 did.

 

[Urist McHemlock]

There is also a way to exploit the Johto Guard so you can get 2nd gen Pokemon into 1st gen.
The Johto guard glitch is a glitch in Gold, Silver, and Crystal which allows players to trade a Generation II Pokémon into a Generation I game as an equivalent glitch Pokémon or Generation I Pokémon by using a ????? (index number 255).
A ????? (index number 255) can be obtained by using the Celebi egg glitch and having the Pokémon Day Care on Route 34 raise an obtained ????? (index number 000) 'bad clone'. After withdrawing it, the ????? (index number 000) 'reverts' back into a ????? (index number 255).
This glitch takes advantage of ????? (index number 255)'s 'cloaking' abilities. If the ????? (index number 255) is switched above a Generation II Pokémon, it is possible to bring Generation II Pokémon into the Time Capsule, as long as each Generation II Pokémon in the party is hidden below the ????? because Pokémon below it are temporarily regarded as being of index number 000 and ????? (index number 000) is not considered as a Generation II Pokémon by the game. As such, Pokémon below the ????? (index number 255) will be regarded as an 'M in Red and Blue, or a 3TrainerPoké in Pokémon Yellow.
However, the game will still block the Pokémon if it has any moves which originated from Generation II even if ????? (index number 255) is above it, so any moves which originated from Generation II must still be removed by the Move Deleter if they are known by a Pokémon to be hidden by the ????? (index number 255).
If the ????? (index number 255) is switched back underneath the Generation II Pokémon after entering the Time Capsule, its original species is restored, meaning that Generation II Pokémon can be taken into the Time Capsule. Alternatively, the 'M or 3TrainerPoké can be taken into the Pokémon Day Care on Route 5 where it will revert back into the equivalent Pokémon.
Since Generation II Pokémon do not exist in Generation I, the received Generation I Pokémon is determined by a conversion table for index numbers 1-250 which is hard-coded into the ROM of Gold, Silver, and Crystal, as can be found here. It is currently unknown what determines the equivalent Pokémon in Generation I for a Generation II Pokémon with index numbers 000 and 251-255 because the equivalent Generation I Pokémon is no longer consistent on the species for these Pokémon.

Thanks to Bulbapedia for all the info. Link is here: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Johto_guard_glitch

 

[big NATE alpha]

In a word, no. I was overjoyed to find I could actually transfer my hundreds of Platinum Pokes in the same day. I never expected cross-generation compatibility to extend beyond this; too much has changed in the inner workings between the two. It could be possible to trade, but a lot of restrictions and adjustments would be put in and it'd be just as easy or easier to get that Pokemon from another Gen IV or a Gen III game. Battling is right out; in addition to new moves/Pokemon/abilities being restricted, many old moves have had adjustments as well that would render them incompatible. It's too much to expect Nintendo to perfect this.

 

[XAndyyX ss]

i think it was obious to expect that because niether ss/hg dpp knows the pokemons of pokemon black ...

 

[Zayin]

i think it was obious to expect that because niether ss/hg dpp knows the pokemons of pokemon black ...

You should read everything :P. Obviously allowing gen V Pokemon wouldn't make sense. These would have been blocked.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

It was said before it was released when we were leaked information about the Poke Shifter that it was a one way street. Why would this even count as a deception? I mean to be deceived you have to be told that you can or at least hinted to the possibility of it being possible. Everyone paying attention to the Japanese updates was told before hand that they could only transfer from one game to another and not backwards. Just like with Gen three and Gen four games. They just got rid of the once a day issue.

No you were never able to battle Gen 2 and Gen 1 Games. The Time Capsule only had the Trade feature. Battling through Stadium didn't count either cause that was battle through a different game entirely where the info from the cartridges was copied and loaded into the game. So even using Red and Gold in Stadium 2 you were battling with mechanics from Stadium only.

 

[dieter57]

im not surprised at all :/
restrictions like this are pretty standard in pokemon.
the last time they actually allowed cross gen trading was gens I and II
and the reason why they didn't allow it in Gen III and II was because they were on different platforms.
and the pal park was nice idea in gen IV.
but my favorite is this gens transfer. UNLIMITED transfer.

 

[Zayin]

It was said before it was released when we were leaked information about the Poke Shifter that it was a one way street. Why would this even count as a deception? I mean to be deceived you have to be told that you can or at least hinted to the possibility of it being possible. Everyone paying attention to the Japanese updates was told before hand that they could only transfer from one game to another and not backwards. Just like with Gen three and Gen four games. They just got rid of the once a day issue.

Sorry, but this makes no sense. First, I hadn't followed the updates and I learnt about it right after I got the games. Second, I could have been deceived by the updates themselves since I'm able to imagine the possibility of backward compatibility between the games beforehand!

I seriously wished people could only state their own opinion since it's the point of my topic instead of judging my point of view.

im not surprised at all :/
restrictions like this are pretty standard in pokemon.
the last time they actually allowed cross gen trading was gens I and II
and the reason why they didn't allow it in Gen III and II was because they were on different platforms.
and the pal park was nice idea in gen IV.
but my favorite is this gens transfer. UNLIMITED transfer.

I agree these are great functions. Still you laid your finger right on the cause of my deception! Same platform, no 2-way compatibility. I think I made myself clear by now lol.