California teen boycotts Girl scout cookies over inclusion of trans child

[Mr. X]

A person who was BORN male is trying to get into a group ment for those BORN female. Saying 'ima trans' (without proving that you are, in fact, trans) is what lets them get the special treatment of being in a girls group, despite the fact that they are physically and legally a male.

If you can prove that you are trans, then it's not special treatment. It's giving you the rights that you are entitled to.

Again, I'm not convinced there is any kind of "special privilege" stuff going on here. Wanting people to treat you as your gender isn't (or shouldn't be) a privilege.

Check plumbing.
Check birthcertificate.

Until you can prove that you are trans, then all you should be treated as is your birth gender. Without proving you are trans, anything else other then that can be seen as special treatment.

 

[Gamzee]

What exactly is so important about truth that you require it to be written somewhere? Would you not believe the sky is blue or that fire is hot unless you were handed a paper that simply stated those facts?

 

[Mr. X]

I can SEE that the sky is blue and can FEEL the heat.

Can you look at a person and automatically know that they were born into the wrong body? No. I see someone that looks male? Male. I see someone that looks female? Female.

 

[Oryx]

A person who was BORN male is trying to get into a group ment for those BORN female.

Wrong. A person who identifies as a female is trying to get into a group for girls. Nowhere on the site or their mission or anywhere does it say Girl Scouts is for people who are "born female", just for "girls". You may think that someone needs to 'prove' their gender identity to be allowed in, but obviously the Scouts disagree since they did allow Bobby in. So your opinion isn't backed up by either the people you're talking to or the people you're talking about. You're alone in it.

 

[Gamzee]

I can SEE that the sky is blue and can FEEL the heat.

Can you look at a person and automatically know that they were born into the wrong body? No. I see someone that looks male? Male. I see someone that looks female? Female.

Doubt you can successfully tell me what sex these people are.

Regardless, It seems to me that you're unaware of the differences between sex and gender. Allow me to provide some reading.

https://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2000to2004/2002-sex-and-gender.html
https://www.iwtc.org/ideas/15_definitions.pdf

 

[Shining Raichu]

Forgive me if this is off-topic, but am I the only one disturbed about the trans child?

In this world, people are often disturbed by things they can't understand. As such, I'm sure there are a great number of things in this world that disturb you. Regardless, I have to press this point: when Scarf asked you what disturbed you about the trans child, your answer of

A better question would be what is not disturbing you with that.

wasn't really an answer at all. So I have to ask again, what does bother you about the idea of a trans child?

 

[U.Flame]

What you see isn't what you get. You can't judge people by what they look like. If a kid has a penis, that doesn't automatically make that kid think like a boy. If a man dresses feminine that doesn't guarentee he's gay. I'm a 16 year old male, people woudn't know I obsess with Pokemon plushies just by looking at me. Judging people by their outward appearence is proof of ignorence. I'm sure Zelos Wilder knows exactly what that's like.

I'm so glad that kid is accepted into girl scouts. Denying that right is segregation, with that logic we might as well have facilities marked "straights only" and "gays/trans only".

 

[2Cool4Mewtwo]

Quite frankly, if I was a member of girl scouts as a girl and found out somebody in the organization happened to be a guy, I'd probablybe bit weirded out at first (but get used to it in time). I guess it's just down to my ignorance on these kinds of subjects and/or not being used to seeing transgender-ed people. (nor do I generally care)

The girl's reaction comes across as crass and immature, though. Not a good way to "publicize" (if you can call it that) girl scouts this way.

 

[Shanghai Alice]

Personally, I boycott the Girl Scouts simply because they've become little more than a front for selling cookies.

Honestly, the Girl Scouts have mainly become a joke, a shadow of what they used to be.

But, eh. As a Boy Scout, I guess I can't really judge.

 

[Sydian]

I don't see why they just can't have a general scout group. From what I see, all boy scouts do is learn to tie various knot styles and yell loudly for people to buy football programs at games, while girl scouts just sell cookies. Girls can pass out programs and learn knots (might be useful for them anyway) and guys will have to sell crap for school fund raisers anyway, so might as well learn the trade. Just merge. lol

 

[Shanghai Alice]

I don't see why they just can't have a general scout group. From what I see, all boy scouts do is learn to tie various knot styles and yell loudly for people to buy football programs at games, while girl scouts just sell cookies. Girls can pass out programs and learn knots (might be useful for them anyway) and guys will have to sell crap for school fund raisers anyway, so might as well learn the trade. Just merge. lol

Have you ever been in Scouting?

The camps, man. The camps.

The camps are enough of a sausage fest as it is (and, due to their nature, that's more-or-less by necessity), so integrating would require both branches to abandon anything beyond the most basic teachings.

Still. I still think the Girl Scouts are a huge marketing machine. The Boy Scouts... actually don't do that much in my area, though.

Brurgh. Both've lost their way, though. Pretty much like every other thing I want to believe in nowadays.

 

[Mr. X]

I'll agree with that.

Back in the day, they served a honest purpose.

Nowadays they are just bastardized versions that are used for profit, or for political gain.

 

[Akio123]

Okay I'm going to make a comparison:
At my university; I'm in a fraternity. Usually frats are characterized by hyper masculine a-holes who drink to the point of irreparable damage to their livers. We're generally progressive (I'm bisexual and I've was given a bid and allowed to pledge because...well they think I'm awesome), and have good grades, and break the stereotypes. Most frats at my school are the same way. That said a couple years back a transgender male wanted to rush a fraternity and was turned away. Why? Because they are not biologically male.

Personally, I was shocked and appalled, but I have to say this; certain organizations are willing to be progressive (allow gays, blacks, Hispanics, etc), but I understand simply because it's a traditional thing. You do want to change with the times, but maybe there are some core values that sort of need to be upheld. I'm not pro discrimination and like I said I believe that if they do identify with a certain gender and understand the weird sexual dis- morph-ism in the brain, but being apart of one of those single gender-ed orgs I sort of see the other side

 

[Pudz]

Firstly, @Toujours: I love you. @Scarf, too. I mean it. You're well educated and you really help to convey the importance of things like this, without painting a negative, militaristic picture. Bravo ♥

Given the concept of sex vs. gender has already been covered here, I just wanted to add in how proud I was of the Girl Scouts Association for taking a transgendered child onboard. For having that policy in general, in-fact. Gestures like this help young transgendered individuals develop without the notion that they're always having to fight for the same things their birth-gender peers take for granted. Some trans children grow up never knowing what a win is, never knowing what it's like to feel accepted, to feel part of the quo.

So another bravo, for them. I'll be buying extra cookies when I get back to the US.

 

[Sydian]

Have you ever been in Scouting?

No. Obviously if I had been in it, I would have had more examples than knots and cookies, lol.

Brurgh. Both've lost their way, though. Pretty much like every other thing I want to believe in nowadays.

Back in the day, they served a honest purpose.

Nowadays they are just bastardized versions that are used for profit, or for political gain.

I can agree to both. I knew both kinds of scouts when I was younger, and both seemed more active and instructive back then. Now it's just kinda...there for the sake of being there, I suppose.

Okay I'm going to make a comparison:
At my university; I'm in a fraternity. Usually frats are characterized by hyper masculine a-holes who drink to the point of irreparable damage to their livers. We're generally progressive (I'm bisexual and I've was given a bid and allowed to pledge because...well they think I'm awesome), and have good grades, and break the stereotypes. Most frats at my school are the same way. That said a couple years back a transgender male wanted to rush a fraternity and was turned away. Why? Because they are not biologically male.

Personally, I was shocked and appalled, but I have to say this; certain organizations are willing to be progressive (allow gays, blacks, Hispanics, etc), but I understand simply because it's a traditional thing. You do want to change with the times, but maybe there are some core values that sort of need to be upheld. I'm not pro discrimination and like I said I believe that if they do identify with a certain gender and understand the weird sexual dis- morph-ism in the brain, but being apart of one of those single gender-ed orgs I sort of see the other side

This being said though, I'm actually a bit surprised a college organization in another country is more closed to the idea of including a trans person than something like Girl Scouts. That's just...very odd to me.

 

[Akio123]

This being said though, I'm actually a bit surprised a college organization in another country is more closed to the idea of including a trans person than something like Girl Scouts. That's just...very odd to me.

I live in the US...unless you live in another country in which I feel dumb... (I go to The George Washington University in DC).


I mean...it seems odd...but think about it like this. My Fraternity (The national organization, not my individual chapter), was founded in 1839, I mean yeah times are changing but there are some core values that kind of need to be upheld. More fraternities and sororities (for the sake of being even more relate-able to Girl scouts) feel the same way.

Also, I mean it will become more progressive down the road. Again, I'm gay and black , 20 years ago no fraternity would consider giving me a bid (a formal invitation to join), but here I am today in 2012. Strides happen, but they take a long time.

 

[Sydian]

I live in the US...unless you live in another country in which I feel dumb... (I go to The George Washington University in DC).

My bad there then, haha. Your location was "Brittania" so I thought you were saying Britain in a fancy way. ;(

 

[Esper]

Oh, look. A followup story.

In a not totally unexpected turn of events a girl scout troop has decided it needed to show off its bigotry credentials and parents have officially disbanded a troop in Louisiana in response to the Colorado troop's acceptance of a transgender girl. They decided to join up with the American Heritage Girls, a more religious-y version of the Girl Scouts.

[story here]

 

[U.Flame]

...People actually AGREE with that prejudice ex-girlscout *****!? I can't believe action is actually being taken! I feel so sorry for the transgender...people making a huge deal over her joining.

 

[Livewire]

Oh, look. A followup story.

In a not totally unexpected turn of events a girl scout troop has decided it needed to show off its bigotry credentials and parents have officially disbanded a troop in Louisiana in response to the Colorado troop's acceptance of a transgender girl. They decided to join up with the American Heritage Girls, a more religious-y version of the Girl Scouts.

[story here]

Oh joy. I can't say I'm surprised though, sadly. Fostering Bigotry and blind hate since 1776.