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Censorship vs. Localization

pkmin3033

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    Here's a fun little topic that has had quite a bit of discussion on the internet recently, and I'd be quite interested to see what people on here make of it, since a lot of us play games subject to localisation (or censorship) and so are affected by this to some degree.

    Anyways, for those who aren't aware, what prompted the most recent debate of this issue was that the Western version of Xenoblade Chronicles X was lambasted by a lot of online users for the removal of the bust slider in character creation, something that isn't uncommon in JRPGs these days with the option to create your own avatar, and is rarely - if ever - removed if the game makes it overseas. Needless to say, this prompted a lot of complaints over unnecessary censorship.

    Of course, this isn't the only incidence of the matter, but merely the most recent. Nintendo have had their fair share of controversy surrounding this issue - Tharja's bikini springs to mind here - and recently there was outrage over a comment from a KT employee about why Dead or Alive XTreme 3 wasn't going to come to Western shores; something that was later countered with an official statement from KT.

    Whilst developers like Atlus and Ghostlight are fairly open about their policies regarding censorship, and certain Compile Heart titles (like Moe Chronicle and Moero Crystal) aren't even brought to the West at all because of all the changes that would need to be made for a lower ESRB rating, a lot of developers (like Nintendo) will say absolutely nothing about what they are cutting out of a game and why in the localisation process, prompting a lot of angry backlash from fans, because from their perspective, these things don't NEED to be cut, and are only cut to avoid offending a very small minority.

    Then there are the script adjustments that are made as a part of the process. The original Drakengard featured a lot of very explicit themes that were edited out of the Western version entirely (well, sort of) which made it even more bizarre than the original version. But then, on the opposite end of the spectrum, you get games like Sword Art Online: Hollow Fragment, which are translated word-for-word from the Japanese script and come out a garbled mess, attracting further criticism. Most changes made to game scripts, no matter how small, will attract criticism from someone somewhere, who wants the game to remain more faithful to the original, or feels that the changes are unnecessary.

    So, what is your viewpoint on the matter? When does localization cross the line to become censorship? Are video game developers overestimating (or even insulting) Western sensitivities to things that are considered to be culturally acceptable in Japan? Have you ever been offended by content left in a game, or annoyed by content that has been left out?

     
    I get it, and with PC movements left and right these days, trepidation's to be expected.

    That said, I think it's ridiculous, mostly. Lin's being given a censo-"localized" swimsuit was...strange. The reason I have a problem with this, personally, is because the quality was garbage- it looks really bad. Moreso in game. The swimsuit in question was pretty racy, showing off more chest than most lewd swimsuits. That in mind, I won't say that it was necessary. I understand the decision, but I also understand that the sales lost by this would be mostly minimal- and that's at the heart of all this.

    What bothers me the most about all these changes is that one way or another, someone's going to be upset. Theoretically, you change something, you offend fewer people, yeah? But then people go so far as to not buy the game. You don't censor it and you do offend somebody, same deal.

    What I find funny about this is that one of my favorite games of last year, Huniepop, is kind of a testament to how hilarious this whole thing is. Huniepop's censored on Steam. Of course. It censors genitalia and various fluids. Pretty much what you'd expect.

    ...But the thing is, it's a game about having sex with literally every girl you come in contact with. And it's not Japanese- it's an American game by American devs with American voice acting (though the voice actors might not be). And you do. They don't show it, but they show the aftermath. This game was a breakout hit. In the West. ESRB or no, considering its success, you'd think that would open some eyes (and what was probably more telling is that it was praised for its gameplay rather than the sex being the center of editorials and articles every time). Also, GTAV's a thing, and that very much has features that "objectify" sexes (though not all too differently from real life and movies) and can be pretty gory (at one point, uncomfortably so). How that game got an M rating when San Andreas got an AO, I'll never know. Funnier because SA got it for locked content. Clothed sex, specifically. Ride to Hell did the exact same thing in greater detail and it kept it's rating and just got pulled off the market for being a terrible game.

    People thinking that themes need to be readjusted themes or content for the Western "sensitivities"...well, look at it this way. Our movies do some pretty gory, pretty sleazy, pretty pandering ****. Why can't our games? This can go for scripts, but I think that's a gray area. Not gonna go over that in this post because it's long enough.
    --

    In regards to the bust slider, that was just a bad, bad call. The Sims has it, and real people have varying breast sizes. Shocking, isn't it?
     
    It's true that a lot of people don't consider localisation/censorship in reverse: Western games that are localised for Japanese audiences usually have the gore cut out, and that makes it just fine past Western radars. Value dissoance really is a weird thing in video games - scantily-clad girls are bad, but ripping people to pieces is A-OK!

    In an era where girls frequently get "aged up" in Western releases - refer to Bravely Default, where 15 becomes 18 - it strikes me as odd that people make such a fuss over it. Not to mention some games get waaaaay worse crap past the radar than Lin in a metal bikini. Ar Tonelico Qoga's strip system, Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk.II's CFW Trick and his interactions with Ram and Rom...oh yeah, those are way, waaaay worse. Hell, even Lollipop Chainsaw is worse; that game rolls sexualisation AND gore into one package! As for it being on a Nintendo console, and Nintendo being family-friendly...Bayonetta is one of the most provocative characters I've seen in a video game in recent years, in her attitude and her design. She's going to be in Super Smash Bros.! And people are apparently getting upset over a little skin being revealed in other games? We're not living in the bloody Victorian era anymore.

    I also think that the whole reason that there was such a fuss about Lin in particular is because it was omitted. It's not because they really WANTED to strip her down, it's because they couldn't. That is, personally, why I take an "I don't really care what gets taken out" approach, and why I find the whole thing to be a giant farce: people wouldn't even notice these things if they were left in. Nobody who says the game is "censored" for Western audiences would really stop to appreciate the fact that it wasn't if it wasn't. The stuff taken out of games for censorship/localisation is usually purely aesthetic in nature; it's completely irrelevant to how a game plays. It's just eye-candy...or, rather, it BECOMES eye-candy when it's removed, because it creates a has and has-not psychology between the two versions of the game.

    Some things, like the bust slider, I really do get the complaints about: not every woman has the same breast size, it's never something a game is called out for, and it really didn't need to be taken out. Nobody could say, in all seriousness, that is was removed because the option would offend some players, or upset parents who wanted their kids to play the game - I think MORE people were upset by the implications of its removal. It was insulting on some levels, and ridiculous in every sense.

    But come on, is this REALLY going to affect how the game plays, how the story unfolds, or anything else? It's not bloody Omega Labyrinth or Dead or Alive! Most people aren't even going to look at their character's bust, and I don't think most people even give it that much consideration when they can edit it. It's only getting a fuss made over it because it's been left out. For invalid reasons, yes, but it isn't essential, so it hardly warrants people lighting their torches and brandishing their pitchforks. I don't think anyone's decision to buy or not buy a game revolved around being able to adjust their character's bust size, or be able to run around with a naked party.

    That mostly referenced Xenoblade X in particular, but I think it applies to all games subjected to the process: if what is cut doesn't affect the gameplay, what does it really matter? It might be ridiculous, it might be unfair, and it might be irritating, but if it doesn't affect the gameplay, why kick up a fuss over it? Just because it's been left out? It seems like a waste of time to me.
     
    I'm surprised nobody brought up Ted Woosely's censorship policies or the fact that even Pokemon was censored, or at least the older variants were. In one game (I think Ultima? I'm not sure) the plot was entirely broken and nonsensical because the double killing that started the game was changed to a double kidnapping among other changes, and in a lot of games the more racy looking sprites were altered and all religious references were edited out. In FFIV, some abilities like Pray were removed and religious sprites were edited, and in FFVI you got cider for the old man to get inside his secret escape tunnel instead of liquor. (Maybe it was hard cider?) As for Pokemon, in Pokemon Gold and Silver in particular the Swimmer class's costumes were edited to be less racy, the Channeler's prayer beads were edited out, and the Fisherman no longer smoked. In the remake for R/B/Y the Gambler class were changed to Gamers, and their costumes were edited.

    Censorship isn't new at all concerning video games, especially with companies like Nintendo. Though some of the censorship edits were liked, like Kefka's odd... sayings and Tellah calling Edward a spoony bard instead of cussing him out, but a lot of it subtracts more than it adds. Then again, I don't have a lot of experience with more modern censorshipped titles because... well... some of those have really racy stuff in them.
     
    Well I don't have as much problem with older game translations because, apart from loving me a campy, liberal translation a la Woolsey (as these games tend to get retranslated at some point, so it just makes for some good fun), parents were a lot more protective in those days and revenue for games as well as their availability was much more fragile and sparse. Games being safe for kids had to be a thing because they were seen as little more than...well, games, not a legitimate medium. They had to appeal to those sensitivities or they wouldn't get licensed/bought.

    In regards to Meloetta, I think it really goes back to the question you posed, "Are video game developers overestimating (or even insulting) Western sensitivities to things that are considered to be culturally acceptable in Japan?" It really does seem demeaning that we get a lot of the changes that we do today. It just seems like there's this huge lack of understanding in regards to what we can and can't take in our games, which is pretty interesting considering those that handle the localizations are generally not Japanese. And I read an article one day regarding this, where one person attested to several people in the business he knew that accrued so much stress because they constantly had to make choices that would piss off and offend the smallest number of peope, which is understandably very difficult (and if the game gets panned for it, you get blamed).

    On the other hand, though, and this is one problem I really have with it, it's rarely done well in regards to sexual censorship. Lin's original swimsuit design is pretty racy. In fact, though I do agree with you that the mere omission of something is often more derided than what was actually removed, an article came out about the sexualization of Lin literally a day after the game came out in Japan. Because 2014. But back to my point, what the design was replaced with was low res, and offended me more than any skimpy swimsuit could. Not that I really have a problem with lewd in general, of course, but I think that's definitely where the line between "censorship" and "localization" is crossed, and where that censorship bothers me.

    I don't have a problem with localization, generally. If it's done well, I'm fine with it, and if it's fun, that's even better. I'd say that becomes censorship when the novelty of whatever's being "localized" is marred in some way. Localization's intent is to translate that novelty across cultures, that's the point. The design process is important to me, so I love picking apart localizations and getting into the heads of designers and seeing why they did what. That's why this matters to me, I get something out of that. And really, that's why a lot of people do as well. Anyone who's created a character they're really proud of or picked a piece of equipment for form (aesthetic, in this case) rather than function. It adds to the experience in the same way that a good song does or a particularly interesting NPC does. It may not be the most important thing to them (though it can be), but in some small sense they get something out of what they chose. That novelty adds to their takeaway from the game.

    When you censor that, you may very well destroy the novelty that they got something out of in the first place. You've lessened their enjoyment by a certain extent, and it could have other effects, too. Maybe a certain piece of armor really made someone realize how much they enjoy a particular character design or maybe it inspired them. Maybe they decide that a piece of armor is so silly, in fact, that even though it's worse they're going to play the game differently to account for their wearing it and ultimately they end up with a different experience. Both minute and great, these aesthetic differences, even in regards to MCs in First-Person games, can affect the player's enjoyment. It certainly has mine on, more than one occasion.
     
    I dunno, I don't think I'd bring up Woolseyism as an example of censorship either - like machomuu said, times were different and parents were a lot more protective of their kids. Localisation was a relatively new thing, because video games weren't quite as mainstream as they are now. You didn't have all this media coverage and controversy in the late 80s/early 90s, and the focus was more on the consoles than the games, because console wars. The controversy came from completely different areas. Most of Woolsey's edits made sense for the times and, whilst they haven't aged gracefully in some corners, they're more amusing than anything else, and a lot of them have become iconic in their own right and, in the case of Robotnik in Sonic, actually adopted by the original creators. I don't think Woolsey really crossed the line into Bowdlerisation very much, at least not in context. It's easy to say his edits are bad now, because by modern standards they are, but in hindsight definitely not...and personally, I like how awesomely ridiculous and memetic most of them are as well.

    I think sexual censorship is probably the biggest issue we have to contend with now regarding localisation of video games because the way women are portrayed in games is attracting a lot of criticism in mainstream media right now, making it difficult to know exactly what is safe to keep in and what isn't for Western translators. They probably struggle because they're so sensitive to these things; obviously the Japanese aren't, because if they were they wouldn't include these things in the games in the first place. If a game wants to be anything but niche it needs to pander to this increased sensitivity, so things are going to be censored if it doesn't. XCX was pretty high-profile, given that the Wii U has done nothing but struggle and its predecessor was such a huge success; it attracted attention outside of the niche market usually reserved for JRPGs. Going back to my earlier example of Bravely Default, it received the same treatment probably because of the high demand to localise it: the Bravo Bikini costume was much more revealing in the Japanese version.

    There's also the fact that nudity has completely different connotations. I would argue that it isn't necessarily censorship if a racier scene gets edited, because you're attempting to preserve the meaning behind the scene. Most Westerners, if they see an underage character naked or close to it, aren't going to think that portrays innocence, or a lack of sexuality: quite the opposite, in fact. That's more of an anime thing than it is a video games thing, but censored fanservice still crops up often enough for fans to get irritated by it. When it comes to costumes and the like, I'd say it's only censorship if a Japanese dev actually comments on it, or was clearly inspired to add it into the game, as machomuu said. If it's just in there to be in there, nothing is lost in removing it, but if its in there because someone felt it'd be cool and it's cut out because it's deemed to racy for Western sensitivities, then it's insulting, and it detracts from the spirit of the game, if not the gameplay. It's not hugely important, but it IS a nuisance.

    A lot of gamers don't really care though, or we expect these sorts of things from Japan because, well, it's Japan. I think the problem comes when games that aren't going to be anything but niche, or aren't quite as high-profile, get censored, because they really don't need to be: nobody is going to care if these things are left in, and fans are only going to be pissed off if they're left out, because it's a part of the experience and they're used to seeing these sorts of things, or because they enjoy them, of course. That might seem like a very casual attitude to take, but how often do you see articles in mainstream media that attack niche JRPGs like Criminal Girls because of their portrayal of women? When you see articles on games like that, it's because of the excessive censorship! It's an irritating double standard.

    Another huge problem with localisation and its intent that crosses a lot of wires is that some things just do not translate. This is in regards more to scripts than anything else but it still applies to the discussion I think, because Japanese culture is so radically different from Western culture that these changes are inevitable. The Japanese have different words and attitudes for certain relationships in particular that do not have a Western equivalent, so dialogue needs a lot of workaround to convey the same intent. The problem is, if it was left as it was and translated directly, it would mean something completely different in a Western context - "I like you" has completely different meanings and levels of intensity between Japan and the West, as a common example. Plus there are puns or wordplay that don't make any sense when translated or just aren't as funny to Westerners, and so on. Cutting those out and replacing them with a Western equivalent - pop culture references, breaking the fourth wall, etc - is definitely NOT censorship, and nor is it violating the spirit of the game. Hell, I don't see anyone complaining about Hyperdimension Neptunia's localisation.

    Assuming that everyone is going to understand that is highly unreasonable, and I think that's the problem with a lot of fans: they know about these cultural differences, so they automatically get the intent behind these subtle differences without the need for adaptation in the text. They know what they're getting into. But a lot of people playing the games won't get that, even if they're niche games, and it'll exclude a lot of people if they don't take that into account in the localisation process. Personally, it took me years of watching anime and playing Japanese games to pick up on these differences; to not misinterpret close relationships between girls, or to read more into otherwise ridiculous-sounding and old-fashioned declarations like "I'll protect you!" and so on. Adapting these things in a game's script so they make sense in a Western context is not censorship, it's localisation in its best form: adapting to preserve the intent and meaning behind a scene, rather than remaining true to the original script for the sake of literal purity. The meaning is more important than the word. When fans cry out censorship regarding this, I think it's ridiculous, selfish, and utterly pointless: you know what they probably said in the original, you know what they mean and, thanks to the localisation process, other people who might not be as well-versed in Japanese cultural subleties as you can appreciate it, too. What's the issue here?

    tl;dr I think it depends on context, and there seems to be this blanket definition going around that ANY change that isn't wholly and immediately recognisable as necessary is censorship, plain and simple. That the reasons behind removals are rarely ever explained only makes it worse.
     
    The main reason why Lin's swimsuit was modified for the localized version is because she is 13 YEARS OLD. An underaged character wearing skimpy clothing is frowned upon in western society, because it promotes pedophilia, which is a taboo. As I've mentioned from my "She's How Old" thread, western authorities do not care if the character is fictional or is mature for his or her age, if they're below 18, then they become easy targets for pedophiles. It's the type of localizations that do matter and why Bayonetta doesn't have a problem with this despite being accused of being a male gaze, because she's a full-grown woman within our age of consent, which every U.S. citizen likes to treat as the definitive age for all countries, because it's considered "normal." Oh sure, they could've just upscale her age in the localized version, but they chose not to, because they want to be true to the characters' canonical ages in Japan.
     
    Pinkie-Dawn said:
    The main reason why Lin's swimsuit was modified for the localized version is because she is 13 YEARS OLD. An underaged character wearing skimpy clothing is frowned upon in western society, because it promotes pedophilia, which is a taboo. As I've mentioned from my "She's How Old" thread, western authorities do not care if the character is fictional or is mature for his or her age, if they're below 18, then they become easy targets for pedophiles. It's the type of localizations that do matter and why Bayonetta doesn't have a problem with this despite being accused of being a male gaze, because she's a full-grown woman within our age of consent, which every U.S. citizen likes to treat as the definitive age for all countries, because it's considered "normal." Oh sure, they could've just upscale her age in the localized version, but they chose not to, because they want to be true to the characters' canonical ages in Japan.
    Click to expand...
    And this is the reason why it's taken so badly when it happens on Nintendo console.
    Because you don't have any chance to enjoy the original unless you import another console.
    So... you have no chance but to accept it.


    And because it's me...
    Pinkie-Dawn said:
    The main reason why Lin's swimsuit was modified for the localized version is because she is 13 YEARS OLD.
    Click to expand...
    I'm suddenly interested in JP version.
     
    On the topic on a Localization of a game, here's one pretty interesting case. Its a 2005 game however, but I'm pretty sure that some of the younger audiences can learn from this, in essence to the thread we have.

    Devil Kings, or what should have been the West's release of Sengoku Basara 1. In an interview, Capcom wanted to make SB more appealing to the western audience by removing all the Sengoku references in favor of a more generic fantasy like setting.

    Where do i begin with this Localization/Bastardization of Sengoku Basara:

    - Characters from Sengoku Basara, who are based and named after figures from the Sengoku or Warring States period of Japan are given extremely campy and cringy names:
    => Date Masamune into Azure Dragon
    => Yukimura Sanada into Scorpio
    => Takeda Shingen into Red Minotaur (they should have called him Red Bull)
    => Nohime into Lady Butterfly
    => Nobunaga into you guessed it, DEVIL KING

    - Some characters who were playabe in Sengoku Basara was made unplayable in Devil Kings
    - Some weapons from the original SB were removed for DK

    + One good thing about Devil Kings though is the added difficulty, because they thought that American or Western gamers needed more challenge. This was done by making Western Easy the Japanese Normal, and the Western Normal becoming the Japanese Hard.

    - The Story was "loosely changed" to focus on Devil King or NOT-Nobunaga to be the "main character" or the starring Bad Guy who sold his soul to the devil, instead of just being a story based on the events of the Sengoku Period.

    - In Devil Kings, a "Priming Attack" was added to make the enemies take more damage while allowing higher combo counts. The problem is that they purposely made the enemies bulkier than the original game to the point that Priming thing was basically essential to even make some progress or simply kill things, so that added mechanic was just extra padding for a mess that could have been avoided.

    So our little friend Devil Kings' case is something i found to be interesting. Removal of all the Japanese Sengoku references in favor of a more general or generic idea in an attempt to appeal for the different regional market or audience... hmmm. It kinda reminds me of that time where Brock in the English Pokemon anime called Riceballs Donuts.

    Still Devil Kings, our little western localization of Sengoku Basara was poorly received for various reasons, but I'm pretty sure that one huge factor was the cringy execution of the localization. Devil Kings was so poorly received that we may have never gotten any Sengoku Basara games in the West ever, save for de weabs. Fortunately we had Sengoku Basara Heroes or SB3, but we never got SB2, and SB2 was the start of huge improvements for the SB games from the first one.

    **************************************************
     
    Meloetta said:
    Hell, I don't see anyone complaining about Hyperdimension Neptunia's localisation.
    Click to expand...
    Oh, I missed this.
    Well... I wouldn't say that. At least in 2 cases.
    1) NISA "localizations" - Well, that's NISA, we don't need to go deeper
    2) Neptunia U - this was actually TOO much even for Neps. The translation was butchered, the "jokes" were absolutely stupid... I think they even fired the guy who was in charge of translation. So... yea, you definitely may find people complaining about localization in Neps.

    It's just that people don't play Neps for story so there aren't many people who compare the translations.
     
    Meloetta said:
    So, what is your viewpoint on the matter? When does localization cross the line to become censorship? Are video game developers overestimating (or even insulting) Western sensitivities to things that are considered to be culturally acceptable in Japan? Have you ever been offended by content left in a game, or annoyed by content that has been left out?
    Click to expand...

    Every time Nintendo of America uses the scissor due to cultural difference between East and West or just plain puritanism.

    In Fire Emblem: Awakening you had possibility of loli and shota relationships but I very much doubt Nowi for example would get a "sexual" portrayal in a fanservice DLC even in Japan.

    Besides, Nowi also appeals to the otherkin, not just pedos. :P

    In the West when average people think of cartoon they think of Mickey Mouse and My Little Pony, so adult cartoons are kinda niche.
     
    I just found a good example. The Division put out a new trailer yesterday(EU version) and today (US version)

    Here is the EU version




    And here is the US verion




    Hopefully the censorship doesn't carry over to the game. Would seriously kill the mood.
     
    machomuu said:
    In the west? Shows like Family Guy and South Park are hugely popular here and they almost specifically appeal to an older demographic. As do a lot of cartoons, actually.
    Click to expand...

    But they're marketed as such. Anime in the West used to be synonymous with kids stuff more often than not. That's why you see many series being censored. Yu-Gi-Oh should've been a PG-13 rated show at least, but people thought "hey, pretty little cards, that's totally a kids show!", then 4Kids acquired it and had to scissor and invent ludicrous things like "Shadow Realm" to keep it kid-friendly.
     
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