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Just a friendly reminder that we're debating chivalry not feminism. Whilst the treatment of women is an aspect of chivalry - especially under the more modern definition - there's other aspects I'd like to explore also.
Now, to finally get to that post I promised a while ago, I'm going to use Deceptio's simplified list of commandments.
1: To fear God and maintain his church.
I won't really comment much here, we have already established that the chivalric code's religious influences are outdated and promote bias and religious discrimination.
2: To serve the liege lord in valour and faith.
If we all had faith in our leaders and blindly obeyed them, democracy would be rendered moot. All governing bodies need to be questioned by the people they lead and held accountable for their actions in order to ensure the best possible governing body hold power.
3: To protect the weak and defenceless.
This one I'm mostly okay with, although I don't know if I could look down on someone who chose to look after their own safety first either.
4: To support widows and orphans in their times of need and hardship.
This really could just be condensed into the previous point.
5: To not insult someone without being provoked.
Again, this is fine.
6: To live by honour and for glory.
To live honourably is one thing, but I don't think we should all strive for glory. I have a lot more respect for people who do good things for people and expect nothing in return than those who who do good deeds for selfish reasons. There's nothing wrong with seeking excellence and there's nothing wrong with doing good things, but there's something wrong with doing anything simply for the sake of self promotion.
7: To hate the idea of monetary reward.
This is extremely outdated. We live in a predominately capitalist world where we need money to survive.
8: To fight for the safety of others.
I really don't feel the need to address what is essentially the same point for a third time.
9: To follow the orders of those above you.
Again, authority should always be questioned lest we sacrifice progress.
10: To protect the honour of all other folk who follow the code.
So, screw anyone who has a different set of values to you? Seems nice.
11: To never engage in unfair, mean or deceitful behavior.
I like this one, no complaints here. It does somewhat contradict the previous point though.
12: To keep faith.
Is this religion again? Honestly I'm starting to think there's a lot of redundancies in this code.
13: To always tell the truth.
There are many circumstances in which telling a lie is going to cause a lot less harm than telling the truth. Rather than always blindly telling the truth, we should evaluate a situation and determine the best course of action.
14: To never give up.
I am 100% fine with this one.
15: To respect the honour of women.
Women do not belong on some sort of pedestal any more than men do. I will respect people who deserve to be respected regardless of their gender and the same goes for the opposite. It is a ridiculous notion to think that women for some reason need special treatment or protection, especially in this day and age.
16: Never say no to a challenge from someone at the same level as you.
Why?
17: Never run away from a fight.
Sometimes it's better to count your losses and come back to fight another day. There's a lot to be said for a "tactical retreat" and making decisions that make co-existence easier. Anyone actually sticking to this particular aspect of the code should probably recogniser the maturity of their actions and decision making.
There's a few aspect in the code which are pretty decent really, although a couple render some of the rest of the limited supply of positive components redundant, but the vast majority of this code is outdated and/or foolish. I think we are much better off striving to do the right thing by following our own moral codes than by conforming to a set of standards plagued by outdated notions, redundancies and clauses that promote conflict more than a peaceful existence.
Now, to finally get to that post I promised a while ago, I'm going to use Deceptio's simplified list of commandments.
1: To fear God and maintain his church.
I won't really comment much here, we have already established that the chivalric code's religious influences are outdated and promote bias and religious discrimination.
2: To serve the liege lord in valour and faith.
If we all had faith in our leaders and blindly obeyed them, democracy would be rendered moot. All governing bodies need to be questioned by the people they lead and held accountable for their actions in order to ensure the best possible governing body hold power.
3: To protect the weak and defenceless.
This one I'm mostly okay with, although I don't know if I could look down on someone who chose to look after their own safety first either.
4: To support widows and orphans in their times of need and hardship.
This really could just be condensed into the previous point.
5: To not insult someone without being provoked.
Again, this is fine.
6: To live by honour and for glory.
To live honourably is one thing, but I don't think we should all strive for glory. I have a lot more respect for people who do good things for people and expect nothing in return than those who who do good deeds for selfish reasons. There's nothing wrong with seeking excellence and there's nothing wrong with doing good things, but there's something wrong with doing anything simply for the sake of self promotion.
7: To hate the idea of monetary reward.
This is extremely outdated. We live in a predominately capitalist world where we need money to survive.
8: To fight for the safety of others.
I really don't feel the need to address what is essentially the same point for a third time.
9: To follow the orders of those above you.
Again, authority should always be questioned lest we sacrifice progress.
10: To protect the honour of all other folk who follow the code.
So, screw anyone who has a different set of values to you? Seems nice.
11: To never engage in unfair, mean or deceitful behavior.
I like this one, no complaints here. It does somewhat contradict the previous point though.
12: To keep faith.
Is this religion again? Honestly I'm starting to think there's a lot of redundancies in this code.
13: To always tell the truth.
There are many circumstances in which telling a lie is going to cause a lot less harm than telling the truth. Rather than always blindly telling the truth, we should evaluate a situation and determine the best course of action.
14: To never give up.
I am 100% fine with this one.
15: To respect the honour of women.
Women do not belong on some sort of pedestal any more than men do. I will respect people who deserve to be respected regardless of their gender and the same goes for the opposite. It is a ridiculous notion to think that women for some reason need special treatment or protection, especially in this day and age.
16: Never say no to a challenge from someone at the same level as you.
Why?
17: Never run away from a fight.
Sometimes it's better to count your losses and come back to fight another day. There's a lot to be said for a "tactical retreat" and making decisions that make co-existence easier. Anyone actually sticking to this particular aspect of the code should probably recogniser the maturity of their actions and decision making.
There's a few aspect in the code which are pretty decent really, although a couple render some of the rest of the limited supply of positive components redundant, but the vast majority of this code is outdated and/or foolish. I think we are much better off striving to do the right thing by following our own moral codes than by conforming to a set of standards plagued by outdated notions, redundancies and clauses that promote conflict more than a peaceful existence.
