Continuation to the old team. Modifications.

Yeah I will. All I need now is a tough physical beast that has no problems switching in. Any ideas?
Talking about Gyara. I think Swampert SHOULD have Stone Edge, but STAB earthquake just hurts.
If I run dusknoir with Thunder Punch as the ONLY Gyara counter, will that do or should I just keep Stone Edge and ignore the STAB Quake?
 
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Um you cannot counter Weavile at all no matter what you say. Lucario just dies to Brick Break and Swampert cannot take Ice Punch to save its life and can't even OHKO or anything with Earthquake.

Also Swampert with Stone edge can't exactly laugh at Gyarados anymore if it has one or two DDs and can smash you with Waterfall. Stone Edge misses a fair bit and Waterfall can flinch you as well, and will do a lot to swampert in general.

Honestly Swampert just isn't a reliable Gyarados counter, I wouldn't try to alter it a lot to make it one. Just find a Gyara counter and leave it at that.
 
Anti-Pop said:
Um you cannot counter Weavile at all no matter what you say. Lucario just dies to Brick Break and Swampert cannot take Ice Punch to save its life and can't even OHKO or anything with Earthquake.

Also Swampert with Stone edge can't exactly laugh at Gyarados anymore if it has one or two DDs and can smash you with Waterfall. Stone Edge misses a fair bit and Waterfall can flinch you as well, and will do a lot to swampert in general.

Honestly Swampert just isn't a reliable Gyarados counter, I wouldn't try to alter it a lot to make it one. Just find a Gyara counter and leave it at that.
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As unreliable as Stone Edge is, it can work as a Gya solution.

On certain pokes.

Swampert is not this acception. Along with two DD's, Gya also has Intimidate, & is quite bulky. Then don't forget the occasional miss & flinch.

I bolded that word cause it can hinder a Gya, but not by much at all.
 
Hmm, you make a valid point with swampert, I have been trying to make it a gyara counter when I could have just added one in my missing spot, However, I think keeping a Gyara in a after a first hit Stone Edge is a mistake. The real issue now is with that last spot...

However, the Lucario can't counter Weavile bit was a bit vague.
When Ice Punch or Ice Shard or Night Slash are predicted, a Luke switch will be very benificial. One Vacuum Wave, which always attacks first( I assume you know that :p) will OHKO the Weavile. Lucario Although inferior to speed towards Weavile can outpower it everytime, even if it was running physical with Extreme Speed. Brick Break On Weavile is the only threat which will also OHKO Luke.
 
sims796 said:
As unreliable as Stone Edge is, it can work as a Gya solution.

On certain pokes.

Swampert is not this acception. Along with two DD's, Gya also has Intimidate, & is quite bulky. Then don't forget the occasional miss & flinch.

I bolded that word cause it can hinder a Gya, but not by much at all.
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I would agree with that. also, if I'm using Gyarados and I see Swampert with Stone edge, I'm switching to Dusknoir and Suicune and having fun PP stalling Stone edge with Pressure and then sweeping with Gyarados. You can outpredict it, but what can Swampert do to those two?

I'm just not a big fan of all these pokemon with moves just to stop Gyarados, especially since it's quite honestly a very overrated threat. Regardless, it does smash this team and Weavile does too. Not much counters both of those, if anything.
 
Anti-Pop said:
I would agree with that. also, if I'm using Gyarados and I see Swampert with Stone edge, I'm switching to Dusknoir and Suicune and having fun PP stalling Stone edge with Pressure and then sweeping with Gyarados. You can outpredict it, but what can Swampert do to those two?

I'm just not a big fan of all these pokemon with moves just to stop Gyarados, especially since it's quite honestly a very overrated threat. Regardless, it does smash this team and Weavile does too. Not much counters both of those, if anything.
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True I mean, Gya is a big threat when I use it, and I love Swampert leads. However, I'm not a fan of forcing a poke to fufill a role, like when I tried to make Ttar into a Stealth Rocker.
 
What misleads me is that Gyara and Weavile are taken care of pretty well here. Thunder Punch on Dusknoir, and Vacuum Wave on Lucario, I don't see how these moves on those pokes could lack efficiency to take these pokes out.
 
Outlawed said:
Hmm, you make a valid point with swampert, I have been trying to make it a gyara counter when I could have just added one in my missing spot, However, I think keeping a Gyara in a after a first hit Stone Edge is a mistake. The real issue now is with that last spot...

However, the Lucario can't counter Weavile bit was a bit vague.
When Ice Punch or Ice Shard or Night Slash are predicted, a Luke switch will be very benificial. One Vacuum Wave, which always attacks first( I assume you know that :p) will OHKO the Weavile. Lucario Although inferior to speed towards Weavile can outpower it everytime, even if it was running physical with Extreme Speed. Brick Break On Weavile is the only threat which will also OHKO Luke.
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You do know the great number of Focus Sash Weavlie don't you? You will really want to have SR out and keep it out before Weavile shows up.

~T_S
 
That is why I have it on my Lead and might run it AGAIN with Donphan. and a spin absorbing Dusknoir, Focus sash annoys me and SR deals with it.
 
I missed Thunderpunch on Dusknoir. honestly not the most reliable counter in the world.

Agan, Luicario CANNOY switch into Brick Break, or the ever-cool Focus Punch. weavile smashes your team, there's no other way to put it.
 
If I meet a Weavile Lead, that you say could stay in and give Swampy a hard time with Ice Punch, the easiest thing to do will be to set up rocks and then switch into lucario. Brick Break is the only move that poses a threat, where Weavile doesn't need to use it unless blissey is out. I understand why it might be weak to weavile, becase the DuskBliss thing wont work with pursuit and Donphy wont really do anything unless it Revenge Killed with Earthquake, but Luca I think will take out Weavile. However as a team, it is still weak to Weavile and one counter is not enough I agree.
That is why I think it is more suitable to find a last pokemon that might deal with Weavile at ease. I don't seem to have any ideas now, please suggestions?
Edit: I didn't know Weaviles ran with Focus Punch O.o
 
Outlawed said:
If I meet a Weavile Lead, that you say could stay in and give Swampy a hard time with Ice Punch, the easiest thing to do will be to set up rocks and then switch into lucario. Brick Break is the only move that poses a threat, where Weavile doesn't need to use it unless blissey is out. I understand why it might be weak to weavile, becase the DuskBliss thing wont work with pursuit and Donphy wont really do anything unless it Revenge Killed with Earthquake, but Luca I think will take out Weavile. However as a team, it is still weak to Weavile and one counter is not enough I agree.
That is why I think it is more suitable to find a last pokemon that might deal with Weavile at ease. I don't seem to have any ideas now, please suggestions?
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Um your team has NO Weavile counter. Lucario CANNOT switch in to Weavile. You can't just assume that it won't use Brick Break because if that's your initial switch, it will be Brick Break coming at Lucario next time which will finish it.

as for solid Weavile counters, steels work really well. Metagross, Forretress, and Bronzong work really well, especially Forry.
 
but you see there will not be a next time lol
What I don't get is why would Weavile decide to use Brick Break on a pokemon like my Swampert for example when i tcould have Ice Punch or Night Slash.
Also btw, Ice Punch from a full IV in atk + Choice Band Weavile will barely 2HKO my Donphan at that set. If I increase the defense a bit more he will live 2 Ice Punches. and after being hit will Earthquake that weavile to death.

Lets say Weavile countering doesn't work in this time. Agreed.
Metagross sounds nice, however, I will expose myself to fatal Flamethrowering action wont I? Mixape will take control even more except for Dusky
 
Outlawed said:
but you see there will not be a next time lol

No, because Weavile will be smart and will switch out.

What I don't get is why would Weavile decide to use Brick Break on a pokemon like my Swampert for example when i tcould have Ice Punch or Night Slash.

Prediction :/

Also btw, Ice Punch from a full IV in atk + Choice Band Weavile will barely 2HKO my Donphan at that set. If I increase the defense a bit more he will live 2 Ice Punches. and after being hit will Earthquake that weavile to death.

lol, good luck with that. Donphan can't even OHKO Weavile with Earthquake and Weavile can beat up donphan. Also, that's assuming it's at full health and spikes/toxispikes aren't out lol

Lets say Weavile countering doesn't work in this time. Agreed.
Metagross sounds nice, however, I will expose myself to fatal Flamethrowering action wont I? Mixape will take control even more except for Dusky
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Forogt about mixed infernape. No matter how you spin it though, you cannot counter Weavile and smart Weavile users will laugh at you. If Lucario is your switch into Weavile, it'll be pretty obvious a priority move is coming.

Honestly I think this team just needs a little blow up and start again action because you have a lot of weaknesses. also stop dnying your team is Weavile weak. It is and the only way you solve that is by putting in a counter. Probablem is, all of its counters die to Mixape who smashes you (basically a 6-0) and SD Lucario also crushes you...it just has a lot of problems.

Meh. The only thing I can think of is Heatproof Bronzong and that's kinda lol, especially with no ground immunity.
 
This may not mean much, but Forretress is my favorite wall. It laughs at Weavile, and only few (admittidly common) pokes can stop it. I personally think that Forry makes a better wall than Skarmory, but that's my bias opinion. Possibly because it only has one weakness, Fire, that can be taken advantage of, like Gya's Electric weakness.
 
I actually agree with that as well, but unlike skamrory Forretress can't afford to switch into a special fire move or it'll OHKO for sure.

Either way, that would probably work much better over Donphan.

EDIT: Here's a good example of a Weavile you can't switch in to:

Weavile @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Ice Punch
- Night Slash
- Focus Punch
- Ice Shard

Almost nobody runs that set but you're toast if you run into it.
 
Adamant on Weavile is like finding a shiny pokemon lol, you can't really find it.
Also, I can't agree to SD Lucario 6-0'ing this at all. All I need to do is outpredict and Fire Punch or Vacuum Wave and that threat is gone. If I take out Donphan the team will become yet more Mixape weak... not like Donphan does anything other than kill some dragons. Atm, I have NO IDEA how to deal with the Weavile problem. Weavile leads will not present a problem at all, weather they Brick Break, Night Slash or Ice Punch Earthquake will be there, Weavile Mid-Game is what worries me...
I think Bronzong will sufice here, Heatproof Bronzong fails badly actually. My mixape problem will be solved by keeping my pokemon in and not switching because a switch would mean Nasty Plot and IF I am able to outpredict, then Mixape will die with no worries.

EDIT: erm, Donphan takes out Weavile with one Earthquake easily actually, damage is 384 minimum that is.... Weavile with MAX HP runs @ 344, and we all know Weaviles dont run HP which means they have 281 @ 0 EV's 31 IV's. and Since donphan can live 2 Ice Punches then it will not be a problem. and even when I am left at low HP, Ice Sharding action will still be possible, IF I revenge kill with the donphan.
 
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Outlawed said:
Adamant on Weavile is like finding a shiny pokemon lol, you can't really find it.

Most weavile are Jolly

Also, I can't agree to SD Lucario 6-0'ing this at all. All I need to do is outpredict and Fire Punch or Vacuum Wave and that threat is gone. If I take out Donphan the team will become yet more Mixape weak... not like Donphan does anything other than kill some dragons. Atm, I have NO IDEA how to deal with the Weavile problem. Weavile leads will not present a problem at all, weather they Brick Break, Night Slash or Ice Punch Earthquake will be there, Weavile Mid-Game is what worries me...


SD Lucario Ohko's everything though =/ Crunch OHko's Dusknoir, Close Combat beats everything else, and smart Lucario user will switch out of its counterpart and bring it back later predicting the obvious Vacuum Wave, which means every time it comes in, your gonna have to sacrifice a pokemon.

Forretress, Skarmory, Reflect Metagross, Bronzong, intact most steels are your friend against Weavile, along with Weezing etc.

Ive already gave you some viable mixape counters, Tentacruel, Starmie, Cresselia, Vaporeon etc.

I think Bronzong will sufice here, Heatproof Bronzong fails badly actually. My mixape problem will be solved by keeping my pokemon in and not switching because a switch would mean Nasty Plot and IF I am able to outpredict, then Mixape will die with no worries.

Yes Bronzong beats up weavile.

EDIT: erm, Donphan takes out Weavile with one Earthquake easily actually, damage is 384 minimum that is.... Weavile with MAX HP runs @ 344, and we all know Weaviles dont run HP which means they have 281 @ 0 EV's 31 IV's. and Since donphan can live 2 Ice Punches then it will not be a problem. and even when I am left at low HP, Ice Sharding action will still be possible, IF I revenge kill with the donphan.


Choice Band Ice Punch 2hko's Hippowdon and Swampert, and therefor Donphan aswell, EQ does around 60% to weavile.
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Comments in bold

ive given some pokemon you could/should include.
 
Adamant Weavile is fine as long as you aren't trying to revenge kill anything. that Weavile is for a switch on blissey and all that. focus Punch the steel switching in and shave off some of its health.

Also Hippowdon shaves 70% off of Weavile with Earthquake and has only a little less base Atk than Donphan. Donphan would need attack EVs to OHKO. Donphan is not a Weavile counter and never will be.

also relying on prediction to beat Mixape will not work. The user will just Nasty Plot on predicted switch turns and turn your entire team into Texas Toast.
 
Snaps. EQ doesn't OHKO *points at busted serebii thing* lol jk,
Donphan, I know he wasnt a Weavile Counter and it looks like he wont be one.
I have a possible solution.
First, Starmie Takes Donphan's place to counter pesky Nape. However, that will leave my defensive side weak, so I would play Levitating
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Realxed
252 Hp / 152 Atk / 96 SpD / 8 Def (Standard)
~Gyro Ball
~Hypnosis
~Reflect
~Earthquake

This comes in, takes a hit, Hypnosis, Reflects and backs off.
Beats Weavile and could even slow down mixape.

the Starmie:
Starmie @ Leftovers
Timid
~ Ice Beam (for dragons since Donphan is gone)
~ Surf (Obviouse STAB and screw Nape)
~ Recover
~ Rapid Spin

Running spin without recover is asking for Weavile to even more destroy this team.
Ok everyone, please check the main post, I have fixed it. Does it look good? or does it still need more morphing?
 
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