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Creating Team built Around Scrafty-Ambipom Pair

Death

Death

The Pale Horseman
    • 617
    Posts
    11
    Years
    It's the first time I've ever wanted to build a team with two Pokemon in mind, usually I just randomly IV breed and EV train whatever Pokemon and plop them back into the PC. I'm more of a Pokemon breeder than battler, I guess? Moving on, here is what we have so far:

    Update 1.3
    Ambipom @ Life Orb
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Return
    - Shadow Claw
    - U-turn

    Scrafty @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Drain Punch
    - Crunch
    - Poison Jab

    Azumarill @ Splash Plate
    Ability: Huge Power
    EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 84 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Aqua Jet
    - Play Rough
    - Waterfall
    - Superpower

    Talonflame @ Choice Band
    Ability: Gale Wings
    EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Flare Blitz
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - U-turn

    Aegislash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Stance Change
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Autotomize
    - Shadow Claw
    - Sacred Sword
    Replaced:
    Spoiler:


    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Volt Switch
    - Earthquake (was replaced by Gyro Ball, but changed back to EQ)


    Original Team
    Spoiler:
     
    Last edited:
    I'm afraid that Mega Kangaskhan outclasses Ambipom as an attacker, because of Parental Bond:
    -Return
    -Power-Up Punch/Fake Out
    -Sucker Punch
    -Earthquake/Crunch
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Kangaskhanite
    Ability: Scrappy (becomes Parental Bond when it Mega Evolves)

    Scrafty is better off using Poison Jab over Ice Punch, since it gained a 4x weakness to Fairy this gen.

    Talonflame doesn't need all its Speed EVs; it only needs enough to outspeed Jolly Mega Kangaskhan: 92 HP/252 Atk/164 Spe. Also, Steel Wing is a terrible option for it, even if it deals with Rock Pokemon. It's better off U-turning/switching out to an appropriate counter. In its place, use Tailwind or Will-o-Wisp to allow Talonflame to support its teammates in a pinch.

    Thunder Fang doesn't see much use on Tyrantrum because Head Smash hits the bulky Waters that Thunder Fang normally targets hard enough already:
    -Head Smash
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Fang
    -Dragon Claw/Fire Fang
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Band

    You do realize that Vacuum Wave is a Special move, right? It may benefit from Technician, but it runs off of Scizor's terrible Special Attack. Replace it with Brick Break, as this is its only option to deal with Steels.

    Also, I noticed this team is seriously vulnerable to Fighting Pokemon (seen with half of your current team). You need something to deal with those outside of Azumarill, like Gengar and Aegislash:

    Gengar:
    -Shadow Ball
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Focus Blast/Hidden Power (Fire)
    -Substitute/Protect
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Black Sludge/Life Orb

    or
    -Shadow Ball
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Focus Blast
    -Hidden Power (Ice)/Dazzling Gleam
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Scarf

    or
    -Shadow Ball
    -Sludge Bomb/Focus Blast
    -Taunt
    -Destiny Bond
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Focus Sash

    or
    -Substitute
    -Disable/Will-o-Wisp
    -Shadow Ball
    -Sludge Bomb/Focus Blast
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Black Sludge

    Aegislash:
    -King's Shield
    -Shadow Ball
    -Shadow Sneak
    -Iron Head/Sacred Sword
    Nature: Quiet
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SAtk
    Item: Leftovers

    or
    -Swords Dance
    -Autotomize
    -Shadow Claw
    -Iron Head/Sacred Sword
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 88 HP/252 Atk/168 Spe
    Item: Leftovers

    or
    -Shadow Ball
    -Shadow Sneak
    -Iron Head
    -Sacred Sword
    Nature: Quiet
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 SAtk
    Item: Life Orb/Spooky Plate/Spell Tag

    or
    -Swords Dance
    -King's Shield/Shadow Claw
    -Shadow Sneak
    -Iron Head/Sacred Sword
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
    Item: Leftovers

    or
    -Autotomize
    -Shadow Ball
    -Hidden Power (Ice)
    -Iron Head/Sacred Sword
    Nature: Rash
    EVs: 88 Atk/252 SAtk/168 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Weakness Policy

    Because Talonflame is 4x weak to Stealth Rock, Rapid Spin or Defog support is required. These Pokemon can do that for you:
    Forretress:
    -Stealth Rock/Spikes
    -Rapid Spin
    -Gyro Ball/Volt Switch
    -Earthquake/Volt Switch
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy

    Starmie:
    -Hydro Pump/Surf
    -Psyshock/Thunderbolt
    -Ice Beam
    -Rapid Spin
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure

    or
    -Scald
    -Rapid Spin
    -Psyshock/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt
    -Recover
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 248 HP/32 Def/4 SAtk/224 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure

    Excadrill:
    -Earthquake
    -Rock Slide
    -Rapid Spin
    -Shadow Claw/Swords Dance
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Assault Vest/Air Balloon
    Ability: Mold Breaker

    Crobat:
    -Brave Bird
    -U-turn
    -Defog
    -Roost
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Black Sludge/Life Orb
    Ability: Infiltrator

    Mandibuzz:
    -Foul Play
    -Defog
    -Taunt
    -Roost
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Overcoat
     
    Ah, thank you very much, let me play around with my current team and I'll update in a bit.

    edit.
    Okay, updated my current team, added Gengar and Forretress; kept Ambipom. But I do have a Kangaskhan in my PC with almost the same build you suggested.
     
    Last edited:
    For Forretress, I would replace Earthquake with Gyro Ball. You'd be able to take down a variety of rock- and ice-types with this attack, and it'd be quite powerful as well since Forretress is very, very slow. If I remember right, the strength of Gyro Ball depends on the slowness of your Pokémon, so, yeah. Aside from that, don't really have anything else to suggest; your team looks pretty good!
     
    Not that Gyro Ball is a bad choice by any means, but just take caution that other steels like Aegislash, Excadrill will wall your Forretress completely if you run Gyro Ball instead of Earthquake. If you decide to stick with Gyro Ball, make sure Forretress has 0 speed IVs to take more advantage of Gyro Ball's power.
     
    Well, I think I'll keep Earthquake on Forretress. I tested both moves out on Showdown and I think I've run into more situations in which EQ was the go to move.
     
    Last edited:
    PlatinumDude said:
    I'm afraid that Mega Kangaskhan outclasses Ambipom as an attacker, because of Parental Bond.
    Click to expand...

    I wouldn't say so completely. In terms of power, sure thing. But Ambipom has a higher speed stat and the option of using an item. I've used him plenty and found him very useful in various situations. Being able to outspeed and KO Garchomp after a fakeout is amazing because nobody expects it. But I'm also sick of Mega Kangaskhan everywhere so I'm a little biased. But a Technician Life Orb Ambipom is not something to ignore completely, it hits very hard and is amazing as a pop in and out annoyance Pokemon. I also think a Switcheroo Ambipom can be frustrating, especially if someone wants to swap into it thinking they can take a hit and bam, they've got themselves a Flame Orb etc.

    At the same time, does anybody know how Technician calculates? I worked it out on a stream and if I'm right, Double Hit has a slightly higher damage output then Return so you may want to swap those moves.
     
    megakhan does have its merits. with parental bond, 2hko's effectively become ohko's thanks to parental bond.

    and double hit is outclassed by return. double hit has nearly the same base power as a full powered return, and double hit has shaky accuracy.
     
    Brane said:
    I wouldn't say so completely. In terms of power, sure thing. But Ambipom has a higher speed stat and the option of using an item. I've used him plenty and found him very useful in various situations. Being able to outspeed and KO Garchomp after a fakeout is amazing because nobody expects it. But I'm also sick of Mega Kangaskhan everywhere so I'm a little biased. But a Technician Life Orb Ambipom is not something to ignore completely, it hits very hard and is amazing as a pop in and out annoyance Pokemon. I also think a Switcheroo Ambipom can be frustrating, especially if someone wants to swap into it thinking they can take a hit and bam, they've got themselves a Flame Orb etc.

    At the same time, does anybody know how Technician calculates? I worked it out on a stream and if I'm right, Double Hit has a slightly higher damage output then Return so you may want to swap those moves.
    Click to expand...

    pirouette said:
    megakhan does have its merits. with parental bond, 2hko's effectively become ohko's thanks to parental bond.

    and double hit is outclassed by return. double hit has nearly the same base power as a full powered return, and double hit has shaky accuracy.
    Click to expand...

    I second Pirouette. While Ambipom has a wide move pool and higher Speed than Mega Kangaskhan, the latter's raw power in conjunction with Parental Bond is enough to make Mega Khan outclass Ambipom.

    Parental Bond's double-attacking ability (the first hit at full power, with the second at half the power) is essentially a Choice Band boost that lets Mega Kangaskhan switch moves. This makes Mega Kangaskhan still edge out on Life Orb Ambipom in terms of power.
     
    On Return vs. Double Hit, I do prefer Return's 100% accuracy. I'm paranoid with missing.

    I also rather like the surprise factor on Ambipom since nobody expects it to be fast. Though one thing MKanga has over Ambipom that I sometimes really wish my Ambipom had is a priority move (besides Fake Out, anyway). haha
     
    Last edited:
    Qlu said:
    On Return vs. Double Hit, I do prefer Return's 100% accuracy. I'm paranoid with missing.

    I also rather like the surprise factor on Ambipom since nobody expects it to be fast. Though one thing MKanga has over Ambipom that I sometimes really wish my Ambipom had is a priority move. haha
    Click to expand...

    People already know that Ambipom is fast, fyi. 115 Speed is good, actually.
     
    Yeah, that they do. But there are still those odd times when people assume one Pokemon is faster than Ambipom so they switch into two returns that can potentially take the opposing Pokemon out. But then again, we can't rely on people making those kinds of mistakes anyway.

    That aside, how would a switcheroo Ambipom look? Would it be the same as LO Ambi?
    Ambipom @ Flame Orb
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Switcheroo
    - Return
    - Power-Up Punch
    - U-turn
     
    Brane said:
    I wouldn't say so completely. In terms of power, sure thing. But Ambipom has a higher speed stat and the option of using an item. I've used him plenty and found him very useful in various situations. Being able to outspeed and KO Garchomp after a fakeout is amazing because nobody expects it. But I'm also sick of Mega Kangaskhan everywhere so I'm a little biased. But a Technician Life Orb Ambipom is not something to ignore completely, it hits very hard and is amazing as a pop in and out annoyance Pokemon. I also think a Switcheroo Ambipom can be frustrating, especially if someone wants to swap into it thinking they can take a hit and bam, they've got themselves a Flame Orb etc.

    At the same time, does anybody know how Technician calculates? I worked it out on a stream and if I'm right, Double Hit has a slightly higher damage output then Return so you may want to swap those moves.
    Click to expand...

    Parental Bond is just so overpowered. Not that Ambipom is completely useless by any means, but it's just outclassed by majority of factors terms of sheer power that Mega Kangaskhan has. Double Power-up Punch and 200 damage Seismic Toss (post-Bank) is just icing on the cake.

    Qlu said:
    Yeah, that they do. But there are still those odd times when people assume one Pokemon is faster than Ambipom so they switch into two returns that can potentially take the opposing Pokemon out. But then again, we can't rely on people making those kinds of mistakes anyway.

    That aside, how would a switcheroo Ambipom look? Would it be the same as LO Ambi?
    Ambipom @ Flame Orb
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Switcheroo
    - Return
    - Power-Up Punch
    - U-turn
    Click to expand...
    If you really want to use Switcheroo... it is a bit tricky to use with Flame Orb, especially if you opponent has something like Choice specs, because you have to use it in the first turn otherwise you'd get burned. You could try other items like Choice Band which is a better alternative on Ambipom, though be careful about using switcheroo with other powerful physical 'mons.
     
    I think there's a high chance Mega Kanga will eventually get moved to Ubers though. But I think at the same time the one thing that's great about Ambipom is as I said before, his ability to just keep popping in and out to put on some damage, and sometimes even finish off or just scout with U-Turn. It's attack isn't amazing but I reckon it's still nice. I've had some great use of it against some common OU Pokemon such as Garchomp, Dragonite, Mamoswine, Togekiss, Cloyster etc. But you're all right in that Mega Kanga definitely has the advantage with Parental Bond, but I think that's the exact reason he will be moved to Ubers. I'm not too sure about a Switcheroo set, it's just an idea I had, ideally though I think an Orb might be more effective then a Choice item because the Pokemon looking to finish off Ambipom are usually offensive hitters. But I don't think his niche is in Switcheroo either.
     
    My friend uses another set for Ambipom and I think it looks like this:

    Ambipom @ Silk Scarf
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 4HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant/Jolly Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Double Hit
    - Power-Up Punch
    - U-turn

    My only question is how effective is using a Silk Scarf over Life Orb? I understand that this Ambipom doesn't take LO damage, but if the Silk Scarf boost is only 20% compared to the 30% boost of LO, is it really worth it [not taking LO recoil]?
     
    Qlu said:
    My friend uses another set for Ambipom and I think it looks like this:

    Ambipom @ Silk Scarf
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 4HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant/Jolly Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Double Hit
    - Power-Up Punch
    - U-turn

    My only question is how effective is using a Silk Scarf over Life Orb? I understand that this Ambipom doesn't take LO damage, but if the Silk Scarf boost is only 20% compared to the 30% boost of LO, is it really worth it [not taking LO recoil]?
    Click to expand...
    Don't bother with Double Hit for the reasons already stated. A miss from there can cost you. Also, U-turn wipes away any Attack boosts racked up by Power-Up Punch, so something like Payback or Shadow Claw is better for Ghosts. Jolly is also the preferred nature, since Adamant Ambipom will fail to outspeed threats like Mienshao and Mega Lucario.
     
    PlatinumDude said:
    Don't bother with Double Hit for the reasons already stated. A miss from there can cost you. Also, U-turn wipes away any Attack boosts racked up by Power-Up Punch, so something like Payback or Shadow Claw is better for Ghosts. Jolly is also the preferred nature, since Adamant Ambipom will fail to outspeed threats like Mienshao and Mega Lucario.
    Click to expand...

    I'd double that actually now that I think about it. A miss is not worth I think 2-4 extra attack power. I don't think Ambipom is a very good Pokemon to try and stack stats on either, he'll go down very quickly and be forced to swap out often. Jolly is also preferred, you can get the extra attack boost from a Life Orb should you choose to use it.
     
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