Debate: How do you feel about abortions?

[Mika]

I think if people were willing to accept pregnancy prevention we wouldn't have to deal with this topic as often.

If we ~decriminalized~ (socially speaking) the common use of birth control and condoms and the morning after pill etc we wouldn't have to deal with the a-question nearly as often.

In the US, sex is like booze. It's taboo and people do everything they can to make sure we all know it's taboo. What do highschool kids want to do? taboo stuff their parents don't want them to. If you go at it from that angle that they shouldn't do it because their parents don't think they should you won't be able to get anywhere. Studies have shown that realistic (age-appropriate) sexual education including contraceptive discussion curbs teen pregnancy rates. Curb teen pregnancy rates, you can help curb abortion rates. :P No baby/fetus/2-cell organism, no need for the a-word.

When it comes down to it, I'm pro-choice. I don't think people should force a woman to keep a pregnancy to term but I don't think they should force her to end a pregnancy either. It's her choice.

I do, however, think there should be more rules on under 18s getting abortions. Not that they should be limited as we have enough Teen Moms, just, they need to have someone with them. The parents need to be informed. There are complications, both emotional and physical that can happen and parents shouldn't be kept out of the loop. However, if the parents are adamantly against it and it's what the girl wants and she can find someone to watch after her then that's fine. She just needs someone 18+ :<

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I oppose them, I don't think that a fetus should pay for his parent's mistakes by being tossed away...I wish people would rather have them put up for adoption than to kill them...

 

[lx_theo]

How does informing a woman of the possible health risks of abortion tie into government funding of abortions?

Its an eye for an eye type compromise. If you only pander to one demographic of the issue, its ends up unfair and not representative of the people. And I could go on, but this is pretty straight forward.

 

[Lady Gaga]

if its a rape baby, sure. but any other situation, i dont know...
i mean, if you were just being stupid one night, you should hold responsibility for that, right?

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Its an eye for an eye type compromise. If you only pander to one demographic of the issue, its ends up unfair and not representative of the people. And I could go on, but this is pretty straight forward.

What demographic am I pandering to by making sure woman are informed before they make such an important decision? Also, reducing medical malpractice litigation benefits all of society.

 

[Melody]

I don't like abortion for the sake of choice. I don't give two figs about a woman's right to abort just because she can. It's immoral by any definition if you wanna get down and technical about it. Of course, people who say things like the "Morning After" pill is immoral are just absolutely wrong. Nothing they can say will make them right. Abortion is only abortion if you've been pregnant for more than a week.

HOWEVER, there are exceptions. These exceptions are ones I firmly believe in because in these situations, the woman didn't make the mistake, or is entitled to another chance.

These exceptions are simple. Rape is the first obviously, because the woman didn't elect to allow the man to impregnate her, and if she comes forward in a timely manner, I believe she should be given a choice. If she shows up a month or two later, then no...she shouldn't be able to just order up an abortion, there are plenty of sterile couples who would love to have a child, but can't make their own.

The second, and the less obvious is the underage pregnancy. If she's under 18 and she gets pregnant, so long as she reports it before it's too late, she should have a choice. NOT HER PARENTS! Of course, if she wants to keep the child for herself, yes she needs their permission, but THE YOUNG MOTHER'S PARENTS SHOULD HAVE NO SAY OVER THE CHOICE OF ABORTION OR ADOPTION! I believe that once the pregnancy is reported, she should be retained for up to a week, AWAY FROM her parents if she chooses to stay away from them. This gives her time to get the right information and guidance by a neutral source, perhaps a guidance counselor or someone trained for such things.

Now, this isn't an abridging of parents rights. The parents can be notified of the pregnancy AFTER the young lady decides on how to deal with the child if the parents don't already know. She shouldn't be pressured to decide in either way by the authorities or her parents, it's HER DECISION, not anyone else's and this applies to rape victims too, regardless of the rape victim's age. As long as the pregnancy is reported in a timely manner, there should be a choice. If she's already 2 or 3 months pregnant, then yes, I believe it is too late for an abortion, she's had time enough to realize it and decide on whether or not she wants to keep the child, abort it or give it away to a (hopefully) loving home.

Obviously all of the above is my opinion. If you don't like it, I don't really care! I'm not cramming it down your throat, just throwing it out there for what it's worth to you, the reader.

 

[Mika]

What demographic am I pandering to by making sure woman are informed before they make such an important decision? Also, reducing medical malpractice litigation benefits all of society.

Guilt trip tactics aren't fair (b n n)b

Requiring all that red tape when people sometimes travel miles and take time off from work they really don't have to come out to have a procedure only to find out they have to come back in two days for this appointment where they're going to be guilted into keeping the pregnancy even if they can't afford it. Then, assuming they haven't changed their mind, they have to come back on the abortion day which can be a 5-10 day wait. If not longer. You name one part time worker working at minimum wage with 1+ mouths to feed who can afford that nonsense.

Sometimes I think Pro-Life is better described as Pro-Fetus. It seems sometimes like no one cares about the interests of the woman, just the thing inside her. :< What about the other children she has at home? Another mouth to feed can sometimes mean less food for the other kids. Don't THEY matter too?

 

[Melody]

Information, while vital should come from a neutral source. I agree with you, a woman who is making such a choice need not be laden with more guilt than she already has.

THIS DOESN'T MEAN that I think that, like buying a gun, there shouldn't be a cooldown time so that she has time to be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN of the choice. But this cooldown time should be pressure free, and requirement free. Give her two neutrally worded pamphlets, tell her come back next week and LEAVE HER ALONE! This is probably the best way IMO.

By the way, these pamphlets, one is about Abortion, and the other is about Adoption. Both should be neutral...both printed on plain white paper and contain NO images. Nothing but black text with no emphasis or bias to spin or pitch one view or another. Just the facts.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Guilt trip tactics aren't fair (b n n)b

Requiring all that red tape when people sometimes travel miles and take time off from work they really don't have to come out to have a procedure only to find out they have to come back in two days for this appointment where they're going to be guilted into keeping the pregnancy even if they can't afford it. Then, assuming they haven't changed their mind, they have to come back on the abortion day which can be a 5-10 day wait. If not longer. You name one part time worker working at minimum wage with 1+ mouths to feed who can afford that nonsense.

Sometimes I think Pro-Life is better described as Pro-Fetus. It seems sometimes like no one cares about the interests of the woman, just the thing inside her. :< What about the other children she has at home? Another mouth to feed can sometimes mean less food for the other kids. Don't THEY matter too?

The government is well within its authority to require the waiting period. The right to have an abortion isn't even in the Constitution, but many states legally require waiting periods when purchasing a firearm; which IS is in the Constitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
You're assuming that because women need to be informed of the possible complications that could arise and has a few days to think about it will stop all women from having abortions.

If they don't want another mouth to feed, they'll still be able to abort the child. And they could also surrender to child to the state in the delivery room if they decide that they don't want to chance medical complications by not having an abortion.

 

[Mika]

The government is well within its authority to require the waiting period. The right to have an abortion isn't even in the Constitution, but many states legally require waiting periods when purchasing a firearm; which IS is in the Constitution.

Part of the waiting period is for background checks to clear. I don't think we're background checking parents yet. :P

Also, and I'm asking this because I don't want to jump to conclusions, are you implying a woman does not have rights over her own body? Are you not female yourself? Are you asking me to believe you would willingly sign over the rights to every last inch of your body to the goverment?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
You're assuming that because women need to be informed of the possible complications that could arise and has a few days to think about it will stop all women from having abortions.

I never said it would stop all women. It stops a good enough portion for it to be mentioned.

TIf they don't want another mouth to feed, they'll still be able to abort the child.

Not necessarily. That's what I'm trying to say here. XD; In poorer states and communities, one day MAYBE two is all they can get to go into town. Politicians know that. They stall enough and a woman is forced, sometimes for a variety of reasons, to give up and deal with it.

And they could also surrender to child to the state in the delivery room if they decide that they don't want to chance medical complications by not having an abortion.

Wait what? That doesn't even make sense. The problem isn't just raising the child, it's carrying the baby to term. There are more complications from pregnancy then there are from abortion. Pregnancy is a wonderful thing but it is a parasite of sorts that feeds off the woman. At some point she won't be able to work. If she can't deliver naturally she could have to have a c-section. That's a 3-4 week recovery if you're lucky period and even after that you're heavily limited in your activities for another week or two. (I know this because I nannied for someone who had a c-section. It was HELL on her)

You get violently ill, you can gain permanent back and hip problems (My mother has two severely herniated disks and hip dysplasia from carrying my sister and i to term) gestational diabetes and the list just goes on and on.

Yes, if they carry to term they can put the child up for adoption. Most women are aware of that. The problem is affording and getting to term.

 

[Livewire]

I think if people were willing to accept pregnancy prevention we wouldn't have to deal with this topic as often.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

Also, my Conservative friends, you preach about the government staying out of peoples lives, yet this is one of the most evasive things a government can do to a person - step in and tell them what they can and cannot do with their own body. So, which is it?

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Part of the waiting period is for background checks to clear. I don't think we're background checking parents yet. :P

Also, and I'm asking this because I don't want to jump to conclusions, are you implying a woman does not have rights over her own body? Are you not female yourself? Are you asking me to believe you would willingly sign over the rights to every last inch of your body to the goverment?



I never said it would stop all women. It stops a good enough portion for it to be mentioned.



Not necessarily. That's what I'm trying to say here. XD; In poorer states and communities, one day MAYBE two is all they can get to go into town. Politicians know that. They stall enough and a woman is forced, sometimes for a variety of reasons, to give up and deal with it.



Wait what? That doesn't even make sense. The problem isn't just raising the child, it's carrying the baby to term. There are more complications from pregnancy then there are from abortion. Pregnancy is a wonderful thing but it is a parasite of sorts that feeds off the woman. At some point she won't be able to work. If she can't deliver naturally she could have to have a c-section. That's a 3-4 week recovery if you're lucky period and even after that you're heavily limited in your activities for another week or two. (I know this because I nannied for someone who had a c-section. It was HELL on her)

You get violently ill, you can gain permanent back and hip problems (My mother has two severely herniated disks and hip dysplasia from carrying my sister and i to term) gestational diabetes and the list just goes on and on.

Yes, if they carry to term they can put the child up for adoption. Most women are aware of that. The problem is affording and getting to term.

I believe that woman should have full control over their own bodies, but with abortion, there is another human being being affected with its own body as well. To say that abortion is all about the mother's body is selfish and disregards the human body forming inside of her.

If those women are so easily swayed by the facts, then perhaps they weren't sure about wanting an abortion in the first place. Lots of women have abortions out of panic and regret it later on in life. Some even develop depression over it. Waiting periods allow a woman time to reflect on all the possibilities that could arise.

 

[Shining Raichu]

I wish people would rather have them put up for adoption than to kill them...

I realise you aren't the only one to have done this, but I think using the words "kill" and "murder" etc in this debate is extreme and possibly inappropriate. They're buzz words designed to play on people's emotions and their sense of guilt, and it's a little manipulative.

 

[Mika]

I believe that woman should have full control over their own bodies, but with abortion, there is another human being being affected with its own body as well. To say that abortion is all about the mother's body is selfish and disregards the human body forming inside of her.

Some women are heartbroken over miscarriages and some women are incredibly thankful for them. Do you judge them differently assuming your Human Life arguement is true? Is the later woman a ~murderer~ because she is grateful she miscarried? Is the former woman a ~murderer~ because she has a hostile uterus or because she had one of the many many miscarriages that can't be explained by science? Are you for the laws investigating miscarriages to see if it was ~REALLY~ a miscarriage?

Again, this problem and this debate would be so much less of a problem if we decoolified sex and its counterparts and taught safe and effective ways to go about doing it. Parents can teach and preach abstinence all they like; their children are their own individual persons. They will make their own decisions. It's part of growing up. If you teach them how to not get pregnant and how to deal with the emotions surrounding that hormonal time period then the odds of them getting pregnant go WAY down.

People are just too squicked out about it.

If those women are so easily swayed by the facts, then perhaps they weren't sure about wanting an abortion in the first place. Lots of women have abortions out of panic and regret it later on in life. Some even develop depression over it. Waiting periods allow a woman time to reflect on all the possibilities that could arise.

Sure they can have a good effect. But does the good outweigh the bad? No. Lawmakers who are anti abortion know that the wait period will discourage a huge chunk of women from getting abortions because it's not feasible to put into their scheduale. It can sure as hell flag an abusive boyfriend or husband pushing a woman into it but that's not its main objective. To say that it is is deluding yourself.

I know a woman who had an abortion and she regretted it. I know another woman who had one and did not. Every woman is an individual and every woman has the right to make a choice.

Are you aware that in some states that after that ultrasound if they chose to keep the baby they have no way of getting proper pre-natal care? Once they decide to keep the baby the state could care less about them. They're pro fetus not pro baby.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Some women are heartbroken over miscarriages and some women are incredibly thankful for them. Do you judge them differently assuming your Human Life arguement is true? Is the later woman a ~murderer~ because she is grateful she miscarried? Is the former woman a ~murderer~ because she has a hostile uterus or because she had one of the many many miscarriages that can't be explained by science? Are you for the laws investigating miscarriages to see if it was ~REALLY~ a miscarriage?

Again, this problem and this debate would be so much less of a problem if we decoolified sex and its counterparts and taught safe and effective ways to go about doing it. Parents can teach and preach abstinence all they like; their children are their own individual persons. They will make their own decisions. It's part of growing up. If you teach them how to not get pregnant and how to deal with the emotions surrounding that hormonal time period then the odds of them getting pregnant go WAY down.

People are just too squicked out about it.



Sure they can have a good effect. But does the good outweigh the bad? No. Lawmakers who are anti abortion know that the wait period will discourage a huge chunk of women from getting abortions because it's not feasible to put into their scheduale. It can sure as hell flag an abusive boyfriend or husband pushing a woman into it but that's not its main objective. To say that it is is deluding yourself.

I know a woman who had an abortion and she regretted it. I know another woman who had one and did not. Every woman is an individual and every woman has the right to make a choice.

Are you aware that in some states that after that ultrasound if they chose to keep the baby they have no way of getting proper pre-natal care? Once they decide to keep the baby the state could care less about them. They're pro fetus not pro baby.

A murderer has to cause their victim's death. If a woman has a miscarriage, it is through no fault of her own. If a fetus isn't a human life, it shouldn't matter what caused its death because it can't be murdered if it's not human. Fetal homicide laws are all huge legal contradictions.

If a waiting period doesn't period doesn't fit into the woman's, oh well. Playing with life and death is too serious of an issue for society to be take lightly for one person's convenience.

 

[Mika]

If a waiting period doesn't period doesn't fit into the woman's, oh well. Playing with life and death is too serious of an issue for society to be take lightly for one person's convenience.

What about the woman's life? Why is that so much less important than the fetus's "life"? Why is the fetus the only person with an advocate?

 

[Nick]

I disagree with people who impose their believes on someone else's body. I think if a woman knows for certain that they want an abortion, they should be permitted without someone throwing their opinions at them and attacking their morality and values. But I guess that's the world we live in. Someone's always got something to say about someone else's life, what they should do, what they shouldn't be able to do, their choices, etc. It's rather unfortunate, I believe.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

What about the woman's life? Why is that so much less important than the fetus's "life"? Why is the fetus the only person with an advocate?

Because the fetus' life is the one being ended, not the woman's. She still gets to live.

 

[The Trotsky]

But she is the only one actually ALIVE and SENTIENT as it is

 

[Dawn]

I think the governments should stay the hell out of womens' uteruses. There is nothing acceptable about passing laws that strip away or restrict that right in any way. If a girl is under the age of 18 and can't face the shame of telling her parents, she shouldn't have to. She should be able to go in quickly with a friend and have it taken care of.

...That would be underhanded, dastardly, and probably very much against the wishes of parents everywhere. You're saying that a kid should have the right to blatantly keep secrets and avoid taking responsibility for their actions by so much as having their parents aware of the choices they're making in life?! Am I missing something? That isn't how families work, and I don't think you have the right to be telling parents how to raise their kids, which is what you're doing.

Wait what? That doesn't even make sense. The problem isn't just raising the child, it's carrying the baby to term. There are more complications from pregnancy then there are from abortion. Pregnancy is a wonderful thing but it is a parasite of sorts that feeds off the woman.

It's politically incorrect to call an un-baby a parasite. Words have definitions, and babies simply do not fit the syntax of a parasite. INB4 "Political correctness is wrong". What you're saying is offensive. And by offensive, I don't mean "I'm offended." I mean "It offends everyone." Because it does. It's a cliche shock inducing statement meant to devalue pre-born life. It's entire purpose is to offend people. =|

In addition, women need to be taught the risks of pregnancy /before/ they become pregnant. You're trying to take the responsibility away from women who get pregnant with the way you're wording things and that's just not cool. By the time they're pregnant, the question is not "Risks of being pregnant vs risks of abortion". It's more along the lines of "Risks of taking responsibility vs risks of abortion". ...They're /already/ pregnant! It's too late for that choice.

Also, and I'm asking this because I don't want to jump to conclusions, are you implying a woman does not have rights over her own body? Are you not female yourself? Are you asking me to believe you would willingly sign over the rights to every last inch of your body to the goverment?

Let me just jump in here and say that I've never ever seen conclusive, reputable medical evidence suggesting that a fetus is not alive. All I've seen is the popular vote win. Until I see said conclusive, reputable evidence, I will not believe it. Just because it turned out that abortion was a popular enough concept to be made legal, doesn't mean anyone has accepted that concept. Me? I don't. So the notion that a woman has a "right to her own body" is completely lost on me, as will it be on others. A part of me suspects that FreakyLocz14 shares a similar or identical conflict. Could be wrong though. She should totally correct me if I'm wrong.

But she is the only one actually ALIVE and SENTIENT as it is

Got some conclusive, reputable medical evidence for that hot shot? 'Cuz I don't believe you.

--
Anyway, my thoughts on abortion as it stands. I believe that there are "right times" for it, but I do think that currently we are too liberal, and I see potential for mothers-to-be to abuse their right in a fashion that I find ethically and morally wrong.