Delta school board member faces backlash about transgender comments

[Dakotah]

Delta school board member faces backlash about transgender comments
By Nancy Lofholm
The Denver Post

A Delta school board member is brushing off criticism of her graphic public statements advocating castration for transgender boys and is continuing to push for schools to ignore the legal rights of transgender students.

"I'm taking a stand. It will not happen here without a change in plumbing," said Delta School District 50J board member Kathy Svenson this week.

Svenson made her first public-forum statements at a school board meeting in October after she passed out copies of an article by conservative activist Phyllis Schlafly. Schlafly's writing decried the accommodation of transgender students in public schools.

In Colorado, transgender people are allowed by law to access public or workplace restrooms designated for the gender that matches their identity. That was affirmed in June when the Colorado Civil Rights Division ruled that a 6-year-old transgender girl, who was born male, could use the facilities for girls in her Fountain school.

"This (use of bathrooms) is a hot topic. It's a volatile topic," said Krista Whipple, president of the Gender Identity Center of Colorado.

Svenson has found that out.

Local television and radio stations aired her comments, which then went viral. She was flooded with criticism from gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender rights groups around the country.

Some in her county are calling for her recall, although no formal action has been taken. Svenson said some of her fellow Constitutionalists and Tea Partyers are calling for the recall of the other four board members if they don't support her position.

Kurt Clay, assistant superintendent of Delta schools, said the district administration does not agree with Svenson's views.

"We are nondiscriminatory. We welcome all students into our schools," he said.

Svenson said she has no regrets about saying boys should be castrated if they want to use a girls' locker room. She said she doesn't believe there is such a thing as homosexuality or people who are transgender. They are simply confused, she said.

"I was a tomboy growing up. I did a lot of boy things," she said. "I'm lucky someone didn't try to tell me I should be a boy."

Svenson said she would like to start her own school where laws regarding transgender and homosexual students wouldn't apply.

Some people demonstrate a surprising lack of education where LGBT people are concerned. But then, considering this woman's religious beliefs, it wouldn't be surprising at all if she rejected such education.

 

[Rezilia]

You should go to a bathroom that fits the manner in which your member...well, goes to the bathroom.

If you have a male member and breasts, go to the male bathroom. The male bathroom is literally DESIGNED for male members, just as female bathrooms are designed for female members. It's biology. It's that simple.


Castration is going a little too far - but someone with a male member shouldn't be in the girls' bathroom anyway, since the number and quality of toilets there are for female members.

As for those with BOTH parts, choose the one that you normally go to the bathroom with. If you have a condition where you go with both, choose whichever bathroom has a toilet available. Chances are, that'll be the male bathroom.

 

[LoudSilence]

Not much to say here; textbook case ignorance.

That said, I don't think I'm ok with changing anything about the way bathrooms or locker rooms are divided. Like Rezilia said, go wherever you've got the parts for. There comes a point where you have to consider everyone else using those facilities and not just yourself (saying it's not fair/discriminatory/etc.)

 

[twocows]

You should go to a bathroom that fits the manner in which your member...well, goes to the bathroom.

If you have a male member and breasts, go to the male bathroom. The male bathroom is literally DESIGNED for male members, just as female bathrooms are designed for female members. It's biology. It's that simple.


Castration is going a little too far - but someone with a male member shouldn't be in the girls' bathroom anyway, since the number and quality of toilets there are for female members.

As for those with BOTH parts, choose the one that you normally go to the bathroom with. If you have a condition where you go with both, choose whichever bathroom has a toilet available. Chances are, that'll be the male bathroom.

I agree with this in entirety. Bathrooms are a biological issue and people trying to turn them into a social issue are diminishing the importance of their own cause by pursuing trivial matters. As for the lady's comments, they were completely out of line. There was no reason to bring up castration at all, as her point (that people should go to the bathroom based on their biological construction) could have easily been made without horrific imagery.

I do think people are twisting her words to imply she said something she didn't, though. I don't see anywhere where she "advocat[ed] castration for transgender boys" as the article says. She said "I'm taking a stand. [Boys using female restrooms] will not happen here without a change in plumbing." That is not the same as saying "transgender boys should be castrated," it's not even remotely similar.

 

[Ultramarine]

Surprised no one has said anything on the comment that "there is no such thing as homosexuality or transgenderism, they are just confused."
Ignorance, ignorance everywhere. Like, how can someone even think that, much less say it?

 

[Kanzler]

Because God made man and woman and they're supposed to marry and things like that. To give them credit, homosexuality and transgenderism didn't have the mainstream exposure as it does in recent years, so that probably explains why. In some places you could probably go your entire life without encountering someone different like that.

 

[Kiddinq]

I could be having a stupid moment here (which happens quite often), and since I am a lesbian and have transgender friends, I at least know the craziness the situation can have.

My question with this is, if a person born with male parts decides they want to be female, they're already going to dress like a female, they're doing their business behind a stall, behind a closed door...

I mean, aside from it being an issue for younger transgender folks in school, I'm failing to see a problem. There are thousands of unisex restrooms across the nation and no one's complaining that men and women use that same facility. It might not be a social issue, but it can be a mental one. I don't know a girl in the world that would go into a men's restroom without hesitation because it's either awkward or uncomfortable. I couldn't imagine the stress of having to worry about which bathroom to choose simply because my mind is telling me something different than my body is.

But again....Without a plumbing change? Lady, are you checking their pants? The comment was unnecessary but I do agree that it is being taken largely out of context.

 

[KittenKoder]

People who whine abut what uses what bathroom concern me on a number of levels, because ... what are they doing in those bathrooms that's so important to hide? Bathrooms are for discarding waste, if you're doing anything in there that would cause you stress about someone of a different gender just being in the area, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Atomic Pirate]

I have no objections to transgendered people, and I support the LGBT community.

However, I don't see the issue of bathrooms. Which bathroom you use is a biological issue, not a social one. The bathroom one uses is based on genitalia, not gender identity.

 

[Esper]

People who work in education ought to be more understanding or at least have a little more discretion.

There really should be more unisex bathrooms. That would make this much less of an issue. There's only really one difference in what kind of toilets are used since everyone uses the stall kinds.

And bathroom are more than just for "doing your business." If you need to throw up, check your makeup, get away from people have a moment of peace to breathe, check your teeth for food, see if your tie is straight, etc. etc. Lots of reasons.

 

[KittenKoder]

I have no objections to transgendered people, and I support the LGBT community.

However, I don't see the issue of bathrooms. Which bathroom you use is a biological issue, not a social one. The bathroom one uses is based on genitalia, not gender identity.

That's a lame "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin" excuse. Bathrooms are not biased as to which what's-it is using them. Also, this comment of yours makes me think you failed higher level biology.

 

[Dakotah]

The question I like to put to people who object to transgender people using the bathroom for the gender they identify with is this: in your home, do you have designated bathrooms for males and females?

 

[Kanzler]

I don't think girls would want anything that looks remotely male in their washroom. And same goes for boys, too.

 

[twocows]

That's a lame "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin" excuse. Bathrooms are not biased as to which what's-it is using them. Also, this comment of yours makes me think you failed higher level biology.

I don't see how the post you quoted talks about hating "the sin" at all. The post says bathrooms are a biological issue, and indeed they are: urinals, for example, are physically designed for men for obvious reasons.

The question I like to put to people who object to transgender people using the bathroom for the gender they identify with is this: in your home, do you have designated bathrooms for males and females?

I don't see how that's relevant. My bathroom at home has a one-person capacity and lacks a urinal, a device designed for males, meaning it is irrelevant both to the issue of it being awkward (which I have no opinion on) and the issue of bathrooms being designed around biology (which I agree with).

 

[Dakotah]

I don't see how that's relevant. My bathroom at home has a one-person capacity and lacks a urinal, a device designed for males, meaning it is irrelevant both to the issue of it being awkward (which I have no opinion on) and the issue of bathrooms being designed around biology (which I agree with).

It is very relevant because, contrary to your assertion, a bathroom is rarely designed for use by only one person at a time. It is often the case that more than one person has a need to use the bathroom while another is using it. It certainly is true in my home, and was when I was growing up (the only thing I hated about that was when my brother finished his business while I was in the shower and flushed the toilet. Yeowch!). I also know from past experiences that it's been true in other people's homes as well. When you have to go you have to go, and a bathroom can and does accommodate more than one person at a time, although it is true that a toilet can only be used by one person at a time (except for males for obvious reasons. The phrase "crossing the streams" didn't come from no where.)

The issue of bathrooms being designed around biology is also quite misleading, because while it is true that a "mens" bathroom does have urinals, it is not required of a male to use the urinal. The bathrooms are also equipped with the same type of toilet stalls as are in "womens" bathrooms. Whether male or female the method of getting rid of waste from the body is exactly the same. The only difference lie in the external body parts of the person. A person who is physically a girl but identifies as a guy, can use a men's washroom without raising any sort of suspicion. And likewise, a person who is physically a guy but identifies as a girl, can use a woman's washroom. Again without raising any sort of suspicion. Almost for certain we all have used a public washroom where the person in the stall next to us is not of the same gender physically. We just haven't noticed it because it's not something that we look for. Or at least, most of us don't. When I have to use a public washroom, I don't pay any attention to the other people using it. I finish my business and then leave. The problems people have with transgendered people using these washrooms arise simply because people are too darn nosy and seem to have this annoying inability to mind their own business.

 

[KittenKoder]

I don't think girls would want anything that looks remotely male in their washroom. And same goes for boys, too.

Funny you mention that ....

Most TGs, you can't tell the difference without an x-ray.

 

[Kanzler]

I think if I was a trans-girl pre-transition, I'd look pretty male. I don't think people would take kindly for me to be in the girl's washroom.

 

[KittenKoder]

I think if I was a trans-girl pre-transition, I'd look pretty male. I don't think people would take kindly for me to be in the girl's washroom.

Have you seen how many genetic females look like men? Or how many genetic males look like females? The flaw in your thinking is that you are assuming everything is precisely how you imagine it should be, but the reality is that the boundaries of what's "female" and what's "male" are blurred to the point of almost not existing in a biological sense. ALL true differences between the male and female appearance are cosmetic, easily changed through various, simple, methods of attitude, mannerisms, and clothing.

You can't hold onto the fantasy that there is a huge, gaping, difference between the genders much longer, it's falling apart. Biologically males and females are identical, with only one very small difference, the gamete. The gamete is typically responsible for what hormones are produced which causes most of the cosmetic changes during puberty, the only cosmetic change that happens prior to birth is whether the genitalia are in, or out. This last part can also be flawed in many ways, causing males to be born looking just like females, and the inverse as well. This typically results in "faulty" gamete though, which we call sterility, since the chemicals needed by the gamete are not being produced by the body, it cannot do what it's job was suppose to be, so it becomes inactive.

Thus why there are so many genetic males and females who look more like their social counterparts even without trying. The genitalia are made up of the same tissues, for both male and female, this is why on surgery they can just "invert" them for the transgendered patient and they often work exactly the same. FtM are the less lucky, because they cannot expand the glans used for erections and the like, thus they often never get surgery simply because it's a wasted effort. The gametes are the only real portion discarded in such surgeries, because, they're pointless in attempting to preserve.

I could post entire pages on what hormones are and how the individual animals we call cells utilize them, but that's a bit too much detail.

 

[Kanzler]

I think you are taking the science a bit too seriously and aren't looking at the world from a social perspective enough. I'm not the most masculine guy myself, and yes, I suppose if you squint really hard I might come across as a girl. However, you're not proving anything by discussing exceptions. They're exceptions for a reason. And no, men and women are not biologically similar, I think what you mean is they are in genetically similar if not for the difference in their sex chromosomes. You could think about all the things you'd type about hormones a bit and realize that sex hormones affect biological development. And it /is/ the cosmetic difference that matters. If I could pass as a girl, why would anybody have an issue with me being in their washroom? People /care/ about how others look and that's what's affecting the way they think about privacy and decency. Are reactions to privacy and decency rational? Probably not - which is why arguing that the sexes are biologically identical (even though they're not) won't convince a lot of people.

It's not about "the fantasy that there is a huge, gaping, difference between the genders". It's not even about gender - it's about sex. And it's not about me and what you assume I think. You can say all these very valid arguments about why genders are fluid and how similar men and women are at a genetic level - but is that compelling when it comes to deciding whether or not somebody who looks like me can walk into the girl's washroom? What do chromosomes have to do with who goes to which washroom?

 

[Esper]

Would it hurt women to have a transwoman in their bathroom, whatever that transwoman looks like? I think that when dealing with a public restroom you have to expect that you'll be putting up with something less than you would ideally have in one way or another - cleanliness, waiting, other people.

I have a friend, she's female, but she's been mistaken for male because of her appearance (body type, clothing, etc.) and, well, I think that a transwoman could walk into a bathroom and potentially give off a very similar vibe and get a similar reaction with anyone else who might be there. The only significant difference would be in what's covered by clothing and since that's not really people's business I don't see why it would be okay for my friend (who doesn't fall into "typical" standards of female appearance) to be there when a transwoman (who may similarly not match that same standard) wouldn't be okay.