elitefour_protector's rules on moveset choosing

[Mullet]

Also you can have a poke with Focus Punch, and not Substitute, it's all about prediction, your not there yet.:\

 

[Giga]

lol, yeah even with a choice band and I know you'll think that's weird. Say you have a heracross. You switch it in agains't blissey, a smart battler will switch out and be swiftly smaked with that FP. A guts'd CB Heracross could take a huge chunk out of Skarmory with FP.

 

[Espy Psyche]

Not going to work. Jolt will crush Zard, so will Trode, and Zam w/ T-punch will kill him too.:\

One word. Earthquake. Jolt will get one shot on Zard(not enough for an OHKO) and Zard will Quake it to death. Same with Zam, except Zam makes a perfect target for Hyper Beam. The original intent of Quake was to defend against Jolt/Trode/Pikachu/Raichu. Electric types are not as much of a problem for me as for most Zards.

Also, Bleep, swearing can cause you to be banned.

Quake will not OHKO a Golem/Rhydon, but some I can 2HKO. If Rock Slide misses on the first shot, well, I think you can figure out what happens next.
Any Zard trainer worries about Rock Slide. We know that that is even more deadly than an assisted Hydro Cannon with a Mystic Water Power Boost. Actually my Zard might be able to survive that with three points remaining, but a rock slide is a sure OHKO. There is no way to defend against that without cheating(Zard with Surf). Anyway, the Starmie will not OHKO me. I will get at least one shot off before I fall...and there is always switching. (Oh my god, you can switch during battle?)

 

[Mullet]

Not to burst you bubble but Jolt can OHKO Zard, HP Water JOlt is fun, Zam will also kill him, Trode can use Explosion, to kill him, or T-bolt, he's half Flying buddy.

Hydro Cannon+Mystic Water=What's wrong with you.:P

 

[Giga]

This topic is lol. Go do your damage calculations and tell me what they come out to. :(

 

[Mullet]

Hope your not talking to me, because Jolty without Modest Nature with max Sp. attack EVs, using Bolt against, a Zard with max Sp. def, and max HP, with a Sp. def boosting nature will die! This thread is funny.:P

 

[Giga]

No I was talking to e4. this post needs 25 characters

 

[Mullet]

One word. Earthquake. Jolt will get one shot on Zard(not enough for an OHKO) and Zard will Quake it to death. Same with Zam, except Zam makes a perfect target for Hyper Beam. The original intent of Quake was to defend against Jolt/Trode/Pikachu/Raichu. Electric types are not as much of a problem for me as for most Zards.

Also, Bleep, swearing can cause you to be banned.

Quake will not OHKO a Golem/Rhydon, but some I can 2HKO. If Rock Slide misses on the first shot, well, I think you can figure out what happens next.
Any Zard trainer worries about Rock Slide. We know that that is even more deadly than an assisted Hydro Cannon with a Mystic Water Power Boost. Actually my Zard might be able to survive that with three points remaining, but a rock slide is a sure OHKO. There is no way to defend against that without cheating(Zard with Surf). Anyway, the Starmie will not OHKO me. I will get at least one shot off before I fall...and there is always switching. (Oh my god, you can switch during battle?)

We were talking about if it would OHKO it not if you could switch, of course you can switch. Starmie could OHKO your Zard, so hahaha. :D

 

[JX Valentine]

1. Try to get an attack move with STAB if possible, unless the only ones you can get suck.

Mmm... For in-game purposes, yes. In player-to-player battles, a general rule is you never put two offensive moves of the same type on a moveset. That'll mean you'll be inable to take on as many Pokemon as possible with one. Yes, there's switching, but the fact is that every member of a team -- and every Pokemon, for that matter -- serves a certain purpose and probably can't be counted on to save your active Pokemon's rear. For example:

-Dusclops is an annoyer in that it uses Mean Look, Will-O-Wisp, Curse, et cetera to trap one of the opponent's Pokemon to whittle down its HP while the opponent tries everything he or she can to get rid of you. (It works best when you've got something nasty on the other side, such as Blissey.) It does not work primarily with Ghost-type moves such as Shadow Punch. (It could, but it just usually doesn't.)

-Skarmory is a Spiker/pHazer/Toxishuffler. Usually, it lays down Spikes, Toxics the opponent, and either Whirlwinds or Roars the opponent away to bring on the next one. If the opponent is a sweeper (meaning, it has to up its stats in order to attack effectively), then Skarmory is sent in before it can finish the job to blow the opponent away (thus eliminating the stat boosts). It does not work with Steel-type moves (even Steel Wing), nor does it primarily work with Flying-type moves. (Since there's a filler move at the end of its moveset, then yeah. You could fill it with Aerial Ace if you wanted to, but it's not an attacker.)

-Ninjask is a Baton Passer. It's primarily used to up its own Attack with Swords Dance and its own Speed with its special ability. It often has Substitute or Protect to avoid fainting before it can use Baton Pass to pass its stat boosts to a sweeper (such as Tyranitar, who does work with Rock moves, but not Dark moves). It does not primarily work with Bug-type moves or Flying-type moves. (It could with the filler, but most people fill that last spot with Shadowball instead.)

That said, you don't base your movesets on STAB. In fact, that's a good way to get killed in battles. Instead, you base your movesets on the stats of the Pokemon and what it's best suited for. Know how to use your Pokemon before choosing what to give them.

2. Self cover moves are very helpful in the cases of sweepers and p-annoyers. Get them when you can. A self cover move is a move that attacks a weakness of your weakness Ex Kyogre with I/Beam(SC Grass)

It depends on the Pokemon. Again, not all Pokemon are suited for being attackers. (For example, take the three Pokemon I gave you before. They don't primarily attack, so they don't usually have attack moves except for filler moves when the trainer can't think of anything better to put in. By the way, with fillers, don't just choose any move. Choose one that's compatible with the stats of the Pokemon. A Feraligatr, despite being a Water-type, is more suited for having physical attacks -- or moves that rely on its Attack stat, not its S Attack -- as fillers.)

3. F/Thrower, I/Beam, Surf... are better than Fire Blast, Blizzard, Hydro Pump...

No, actually, they're equal. See, the accuracy of Fire Blast and Blizzard actually put them on the same level as Flamethrower and Ice Beam. It's basically more power/less accuracy versus less power/more accuracy. Balances out, see.

I won't deny the fact that Hydro Pump sucks, though.

4. I try to pick Pokemon with high Attack or SA stats and high Speed. 00bers fit this description perfectly, but don't get ridiculous with them, or some tournaments will ban you.

Actually, most tournaments (even official ones, from what I hear) will allow legendaries. It's out-of-tournament play that you'll get laughed at.

As for high offensive stats, you'll probably get killed simply because a team can never be comprised of only attackers and sweepers. You need defense and back-up as well. Heck, even Skarmory (who usually has maxed out Defense and Speed) is recommended. You'll also need a Hazer or pHazer of some kind (such as Skarmory or Crobat), who rely on the defenses or Speed to stop the opponent's sweepers.

Basically speaking, to create an effective team, you need a balance of Pokemon that serve multiple purposes. You can't survive on offense alone (nor can you survive on defense alone).

5. Hyper Beam works on Pokemon with a decent(not necessarily overwhelming) ATK and a high SPD as a last shot before you fall.

Actually, it pretty much works on Slaking and the sparse few Slaking-like Pokemon who can afford the recharge either due to having to skip a turn anyways or due to obscenely high defenses or HP. On anything else, you're pretty much committing suicide because you can't devote EPs to both offense and defense, and your average, high-offense Pokemon usually don't come with high defenses too. (Tanks are few and far between in the RSE/FrLg metagame. You could pull it off in RBY and GSC, but since it's hard to find someone who actually plays those games anymore, you might as well just look at the most recent games.)

6. The only time to give high ATK and low SA Pokemon a Spec move is in the case of a self cover or crunching steelix. Golem/Rhydon with Fire Blast, Snorlax with Psychic, or Groudon with Solarbeam are good examples of when this can be used.

You know, none of those Pokemon are usually seen with those moves for the exact reason you said it was okay to give it to them. Without STAB and the right stats, the most affect you'll have on the opponent is to get them to laugh.

7. The rule can work in reverse too. An Alakazam with a Fighting type move, a Jolty with Dig, or an Espy with Shadow Ball all work.

1. Alakazam is never seen with a Fighting-type move. (It's usually seen with Calm Mind, Psychic, and two out of three element punches: Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, or Fire Punch.)

2. Dig isn't a good idea on anyone. The opponent can easily anticipate your move, switch in for something that can take the hit (possibly with EQ on the side to do some extra damage in case the user's still underground), and proceed to kick your Pokemon's rear into oblivion. (Same thing with Fly and Dive, for that matter.) At most, it's a staller.

3. Even if Espy might be a bit quicker than the opponent, you're talking only half-decent Attack here. Gengar might be able to take the hit... and then smack your Espy back with a STABed Shadow Ball (if you happen to choose that particular standard moveset).

4. You shouldn't give a Pokemon moves its stats don't support. Just don't.

8. If your Pokemon can learn a recovery move, it is a must that you have it.

Not always. After all, pretty much everyone learns Rest, and you don't see it on most Pokemon out there. Likewise, your average Alakazam doesn't have to come with Recover (because it's mainly a special sweeper).

10. High SPD is almost always better.

Than what?

Also, it depends on the Pokemon (both yours and your opponent's), the Pokemon's purpose, and the situation.

I am a fighter, and I try to have at least one offensive move on every moveset I create.

It's fine if you do, but please remember that many Pokemon aren't meant to be attackers.

If you think of any more add them

Hyper Beam (unless your name is Slaking)
Dive, Dig, Fly
Rest (without Chesto, Early Bird, or some sort of move to take advantage of the sleep status)

Overall, not a bad set of rules for in-game play. Player-to-player, however, you might need a bit of work. Remember, strategy comes before anything else. Know how to take advantage of a Pokemon's stats and abilities, and you should be able to create a kick-butt team without trouble.

Oh, and of course, if you don't mind, there's a few more rules:

1. Take note of your Pokemon's nature and special ability. Nature alone can mean the difference between an awesome Pokemon and a barely useful one or the difference between a Pokemon that should serve for one purpose and another that should serve another. (For example, a Jolly Gengar is most often used with the standard McGengar moveset. If a Gengar had a different nature, however, it could turn into a special or physical attacker only.)

2. Likewise, the abilities can change the use of the Pokemon. A Liquid Ooze Tentacruel is used to counter the rare Subseeders (such as, oddly enough, Sceptile). However, a Clear Body Tentacruel is your average special sponge.

3. Don't use hold items that boost the power of a certain type. You can use the slot more effectively if you replace it with another item, such as Leftovers, Shell Bell, Choice Band, or a berry.

Hope this helps!

 

[c_dog]

LOL @ E4protector's comment on charizard surviving tbolt.

here are my rules on KO'ing charizard:
1. anything w/ tbolt = OHKO charizard
2. anything w/ rockslide = OHKO charizard
3. anything w/ decent attack = OHKO charizard

haha, and this coming from someone who likes zard :D that's why endure+salac works. jolty and dugtrio are faster than zard and can OHKO him, so you endure+salac, turn the game around. flamethrower and hp grass kill them.

 

[Mullet]

Flamethrower doesn't kill Jolty, and Duggy, and HP [Grass] doesn't kill Jolt.

Kazeto, Boahtar, accually does use Crunch, so t does get STAB, but DD Tar, and other types don't use Dark attacks.

 

[JX Valentine]

Kazeto, Boahtar, accually does use Crunch, so t does get STAB, but DD Tar, and other types don't use Dark attacks.

I admit that the Boahtar set's a moveset I'm not entirely familiar with. I've mainly seen the DD Tar over anything else (save for maybe a couple of kiddies using an all-out offensive Tar with CB). Mind enlightening me about that one? Sounds kinda interesting.

 

[Mullet]

I don't really think it's used much anymore, as T-tar seems to have died out, not seeing them that much anymore. Anyway, it's a T-tar taht's made to counter it's weaknesses, made made by chaos, and jumpman (I think it's jumpman).

Tyranitar@Lefties
Forgot EVs, and Nautre
Crunch
T-bolt
Sub/HP [Psychic]
Flamethrower

Somthing like that, except it didn't have HP [Psychic], like I said I had seen it in a while. It's got T-bolt for Water, Flamethrower for Grass, Crunch for Psychic types, T-bolt also kills Bugs, and HP [Psychic] can kill fighing.:D

 

[c_dog]

Flamethrower doesn't kill Jolty, and Duggy, and HP [Grass] doesn't kill Jolt.

Kazeto, Boahtar, accually does use Crunch, so t does get STAB, but DD Tar, and other types don't use Dark attacks.

er, you're wrong. modest charizard+blaze+flamethrower = dead jolty. i would know cuz i've been in that situation numerous times. charizard without blaze at modest sweeps stuff with normal resistance, nevermind at blaze. it's not like jolty has spectacular defense either.

 

[husk1442]

jolteon vs zard with standard Evs and max Ivs

Min 107%
Avg 116%
Max 126%

electrode explosion on Charizard

Min 100%
Avg 109%
Max 118%

This is if electrode had 96 evs in atk







Btw kazeto standard dusclops uses shadow ball and focus punch
and also hydro pump is decent as it has 80% accuracy (85% on netbattle)

 

[Mullet]

It only has 5 PP though, which is why I like Surf better.

Zards arn't always Modest, and Blaze is situational, you have to be at 25% HP or less for it to activate. As Husk just stated, Jolt would OHKO Zard, and he's faster, and even more so with Timid, then he would loose the Modest bonus, even though he doesn't need it to kill Zard.

 

[husk1442]

yea that jolteon was timid

 

[Mullet]

Then with a Modest boost, with standerded EVs, and 30 Sp. attack IVs (HP [Grass], which is standard), it's Sp. attack is at 349, which will still OHKO Zard, I did the damage calculations. Are those percentages from pesonal experence or did you calculate them?:\

 

[husk1442]

I calculated those, I just meant timid will also OHKO even without the modest boost

 

[Mullet]

Did that post have a point?

Zard looses to almost anything that has T-bolt. Poor Charizard.