4th Gen Fair Hacking: "Fair?" or advantage?

Lol, Pokemon on steriods! :D

See, having a good Pokemon doesn't make you a good player. Rather, it puts you on an even playing field with the other players. You can't get 1337 prediction skillz from a hack. Hacks (well these hacks anyway) don't necessarily equal a win, especially against smogoners, it just means saved time for me.

Actually, what you said about soccer is one reason I don't like sports much. It bugs me how someone can have some skill and good genes and play as well as someone with tons of skill and passion, but poor genes. For example, a short basketball player with lots of skill vs a giant basketball player with just a little skill.

In the end I guess I support "fair" hacking because I want Shoddy with animations and sounds, and without the swearing. :/
 
Parasol Kirby said:
Lol, Pokemon on steriods! :D

See, having a good Pokemon doesn't make you a good player. Rather, it puts you on an even playing field with the other players. You can't get 1337 prediction skillz from a hack. Hacks (well these hacks anyway) don't necessarily equal a win, especially against smogoners, it just means saved time for me.

Actually, what you said about soccer is one reason I don't like sports much. It bugs me how someone can have some skill and good genes and play as well as someone with tons of skill and passion, but poor genes. For example, a short basketball player with lots of skill vs a giant basketball player with just a little skill.
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Yeah fortunately a lot of players who choose to 'create' their Pokemon often don't have the battling skills to follow up their extra strong hacks. But of course some do. =(
 
I wasn't being serious. I don't use Pokesav anymore because it's boring to use. However, I don't really see the problem in using it as long as the Pokemon has everything legal and reasonable IVs. Also, it's not like anyone can do anything about it anyway because most of the time you can't tell that a Pokemon was "saved" unless you check where it was caught, has a messed up Ability like Wonder Guard, or is shiny and there's no "Official Pokemon Tournaments" or "Leagues" where it really matters.
 
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Parasol Kirby said:
Lol, Pokemon on steriods! :D

See, having a good Pokemon doesn't make you a good player. Rather, it puts you on an even playing field with the other players. You can't get 1337 prediction skillz from a hack. Hacks (well these hacks anyway) don't necessarily equal a win, especially against smogoners, it just means saved time for me.

Actually, what you said about soccer is one reason I don't like sports much. It bugs me how someone can have some skill and good genes and play as well as someone with tons of skill and passion, but poor genes. For example, a short basketball player with lots of skill vs a giant basketball player with just a little skill.

In the end I guess I support "fair" hacking because I want Shoddy with animations and sounds, and without the swearing. :/
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It puts you on an even playing field when you shouldn't really be on the field... I guess it's more comparable to say, a kid taking steroids to become super strong and fast, and then going to play football (American). He might not know the game very well, but with time he could learn it and then the other players who previously could be as good or better than him because of their knowledge of the game wouldn't be able to keep up.

In fact, that's the best comparison so far. Pokesav = steroids for pokemon!
 
I think fair hacking is perfectly fine to me up to an extent. There is a limit on what you do with hacking if you want to battle me.

Hacking Events - I am perfectly fine with those if you didn't hack its stats or abuse its powers or anything like that. But hacking too many events will seem unfair.

Hacking Shinies - I'm cool with hacked shinies as they are superior in no way. I would be much more prouder if I have a legit shiny than a hacked one. And hackers for shinies are frowned upon anyways.

Hacked Stats - This is where I draw the line. Hacked stats are a definite NO.

Hacked IVs / EVs - I am not okay with hacked IVs. Getting perfect IVs legitly, I'm fine with. But hacking IVs is a no, even if it is possible, it will seem unfair. Hacking EVs, anyone can max EVs out but if you go over the 510 limit, I will refuse to have a match with that trainer. Maxed IVs with a Hidden Power of choice is also a NO for me.

Hacked Movesets - Um NO. XD
 
This reminds me of a Regigigias I once saw. It had Huge Power and max IVs and EVs in every stat. The person using it kept on gloating about how he wiped the floor with everyone else :/

Personally, I think hacking for shinies is permittable, but I don't like it. IVs cross the line though, as do stats and movesets. Hacking for items is fine for your own use, but when you start asking for rare Pokemon in exchange for all the rare TMs and Master Balls you hacked, it's unfair.
 
I don't like hacking, period. I don't mind exploiting game glitches (ie: Cloning), but hacking is a no-no in my books. It takes the fun out of raising your own Pokemon and finding your own shinies, and it makes battles completely unfair. :/
 
Scarlet Lynn said:
I don't like hacking, period. I don't mind exploiting game glitches (ie: Cloning), but hacking is a no-no in my books. It takes the fun out of raising your own Pokemon and finding your own shinies, and it makes battles completely unfair. :/
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Yes scarlet, most of us dont like hacking at all, as do my self. But we're talking about fair hacking, and were to draw the line if you aloud it.
So scarlet is a complete no here... ok ;D thanks girl ;D

Anyways, thanks for all the well written responces, though that really is the debate...
It's possible for someone to have great IVs such as the smogon ones.. but does it go over the line of fair...

And let me point this out, everyone is saying about how much time and effort we put into this and all the work we do for them to do seconds...
Well in a battle does it care what your time of hours is? Absolutely not, it's the stats, predict, skills and luck that make a "battle".

An interesting point someone made was the steriod or Patriot spygate arguement...

Yes they can hack, lose the fun of training their own...
But must weild the skills to use, Like a Barry Bonds, or the patriots for that matter.
So now beg this in, the challenge part of it...
FourFourTwo said how he wouldn't allow Iv's over 20...

Well...isn't that you gaining the advantage by limiting your opponent under 20?
What i'm trying to say is, and remember I myself am in no way a hacker, just want to learn about the line of fair hacking...

Is if they control the ivs, and did say an IV spread of a pokemon over at smogon, could it really be an advantage? when you me and other face the same thing. This is what my friend begs to argue...

Is it fair competitively a couple of stats increases are made in seconds...

So continue on with the debate "Where do you draw the line in "fair hacking"'
 
I think everyone has there own lines drawn on the sand on what is and not acceptable to them.Personally I don't think its totally fair that the user can have any pokemon they want when they want while others have to breed and search for weeks on out.Like beach boy said.yeah you have to have skill still to win battles with fair hacking but its like how if a baseball player did steroids and got an award over somebody who came close but didn't cheat.is it fair for that person to be singled out on an award he could of won if the winner wasn't using an edge?Fair hacking is kinda a blurry line but varies from person to person
 
Sagat said:
I think everyone has there own lines drawn on the sand on what is and not acceptable to them.Personally I don't think its totally fair that the user can have any pokemon they want when they want while others have to breed and search for weeks on out.Like beach boy said.yeah you have to have skill still to win battles with fair hacking but its like how if a baseball player did steroids and got an award over somebody who came close but didn't cheat.is it fair for that person to be singled out on an award he could of won if the winner wasn't using an edge?Fair hacking is kinda a blurry line but varies from person to person
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Interesting Point of view...

I would agree, making teams is tough work, day in day out, and for hacking to make strong ivs and hidden powers in minutes isn't pretty fair.
But you know, I think i maybe accept it, for example, anyone that has battled in shoddy has been in the same place.
Do you give lofty ivs there, no usually people keep it at all 31s, and yet we still battle to become number one and never complain, but then again that isnt sucha valid point as most of use, and the majority of us don't hack, but then again we still carry and weild pokemon with high IVs like them...

I dont hack, and I look down upon it, but in the terms of fair Evs, moveset, its fine, but when the person can make IVs perfect 31s it's unfair.
but if it's like a spread on smogon with some low ones, it well kinda is fair in the terms of we could battle someone fair with even higher IVs, and yet nothing to bark about there...
So yeah I guess your right it is where you draw the line, but that's why I made this thread, to see where everyone draws their own line in the sand.

Thank you...

Continue on folks.
 
Sagat said:
I think everyone has there own lines drawn on the sand on what is and not acceptable to them.
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Yes, that's why we're trying to make one universal line. ;)
Sagat said:
Personally I don't think its totally fair that the user can have any pokemon they want when they want while others have to breed and search for weeks on out.
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Again, that's more their problem than anything, it's not that hard to get your hands on hacks. :/
Sagat said:
Like beach boy said.yeah you have to have skill still to win battles with fair hacking but its like how if a baseball player did steroids and got an award over somebody who came close but didn't cheat.is it fair for that person to be singled out on an award he could of won if the winner wasn't using an edge?Fair hacking is kinda a blurry line but varies from person to person
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It wouldn't be fair hacking anymore, but just plain hacking, now wouldn't it?

The reasons (correct me if I'm wrong) that people ban steroids is because
1) They're very dangerous to your health, something hacking isn't
2) Exercise (the long, normal way) is very good for your health, but remember that breeding (the other long, normal way) doesn't have any health benefits!

I think most people despise hacking because it destroys something so integral to many people's Pokemon experience, and that's the collecting and trading. I personally think it's just goofy to spend hours unlocking everything in a game, or in this case collecting, especially when with a hacking device you could access everything you paid for in a couple seconds. But alot of people like the whole collecting thing, and don't want to be reminded what it really is (just unlocking bits of your data) by hackers. So they ban them. :(
 
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Parasol Kirby said:
Yes, that's why we're trying to make one universal line. ;)
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Good luck with that. This is even harder than trying to make a tier list or something.

Parasol Kirby said:
Again, that's more their problem than anything, it's not that hard to get your hands on hacks. :/
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So everyone should hack? Some people don't like the idea of cheating a game, you know?

Parasol Kirby said:
I think most people despise hacking because it destroys something so integral to many people's Pokemon experience, and that's the collecting and trading. I personally think it's just goofy to spend hours unlocking everything in a game, or in this case collecting, especially when with a hacking device you could access everything you paid for in a couple seconds. But alot of people like the whole collecting thing, and don't want to be reminded what it really is (just unlocking bits of your data) by hackers. So they ban them. :(
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IMO, I didn't pay for a bunch of perfect, trained, competitive battle-ready pokemon when I bought this game. I paid for a videogame in which I can raise pokemon, and if I put a lot of work into it, I can get some really powerful ones to be able to battle competitively.
 
You're taking my words out of context. If it was cheating, then there wouldn't be any debate about wether it's right or not.

As for what you paid for, you're right, that's what a lot of people are looking for when they buy Pokemon. It just aggravates me when people force their viewpoint of how Pokemon should be enjoyed on others with things like global forum rules. NOTE I'm not bashing forum rules, I'm not for anarchy, but I think that forum rules shouldn't dissallow people from playing with hacks as long as they just make it known in what way they hacked it.

Again I guess my problem is I'm looking at this game from a Shoddy Battle perspective, while you guys are looking at it from a bug-collecting perspective.
 
I don't appreciate your condescending tone, Parasol. I meant no offense with my post, and I'm sorry if you took it that way. In response:

1. Um, I don't see how I took your words out of context. To me, it seemed as if you were suggesting that everyone should hack by saying "it's not hard to obtain hacks" in response to the claim that it doesn't seem fair that hackers can get things in minutes that take non-hackers days. Perhaps I misunderstood?

2. Hacking = cheating. It's not technically cheating at battling, but it IS cheating the game, that is a fact, whether or not it's fair for battling.

3. I'm not forcing my viewpoint on you, I'm saying that you can't force your viewpoint on me, or anyone else that might not approve of hacking.

4. Don't rant about forum rules here, this is not the place.

5. If you want to play the game like ShoddyBattle, go download ShoddyBattle and play it. Then you don't have to worry about what hacking is fair and what isn't.
 
First off, both of you calm down, Im all for debates, but we dont need my thread closed for flamming, so stop the food fighting...

Im with both of you in certian cases, in the whole steriod thing with the winner cheating, that leaves the whole discussion of fair...

Though I for buying my game to battle competitively and not have them right away..
Secondly, now my arguement on 31 perfect Ivs is done, now I think it's completely unfair, but I must say...

The whole legal iivs through thtrow curve, like smogon ones, the battler couldnt tell of hacking then and wouldnt even be reported here, so ???
 
I didn't know I had a condescending tone. Sorry!

1. Actually, I misunderstood. I thought you meant that everyone should cheat. In fact, I don't see anything wrong with everyone hacking (the way I do, not Wondertombs and such bunk), and I really would like it if everyone hacked because then everyone would have perfect IVs and such.
2. I define cheating this way: Doing anything against the rules or that gives you an unfair advantage. That's why I always let my opponents know that I hacked before I play them, I don't want them to think they're playing against "legit" pokemon. And that's also why I have my IVs at a spread of 3 31's and 3 15's, which is actually sub-Smogon.
3. I meant most forum administrators force their veiws on the hackers.
4. Oops
5.
Parasol Kirby said:
In the end I guess I support "fair" hacking because I want Shoddy with animations and sounds, and without the swearing. :/
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EDIT: Grr you posted before I could finish typing!

Parasol used Calm Mind!
Parasol became acceptable to BeachBoy.
:p

BeachBoy said:
The whole legal iivs through thtrow curve, like smogon ones, the battler couldnt tell of hacking then and wouldnt even be reported here, so ???
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So, that kind of hacking is fine. Just alot of people don't like it, so make sure your opponent is ok with it first. Oh and although I don't frown upon this kind of hacking, I do frown upon pretending not to hack. Deciet is a no-no.
 
I'd say hacking ruins the game for you, it is unfair because like people actually hunt for shinys, when one appears and you want to trade for rarer pokemon its not worth because their is numerous shineys of the same pokemon.
 
I rather catch/ train the Pokemon instead of hacking, but I think event Pokemon is ok to get through cheating, because that's the only way to get them. Get them from a game shark/action replay or from a machine Nintendo owns; what's the difference? No big difference, as long as the Pokemon (or the Ticket) is the same data. People think that getting Pokemon with AR is unfair, but isn't it Nintendo that's unfair? Only people who go to see Pocket Monsters in the theatres, or play TCG in world championships get these rare Pokemon, but how many people can possibly do that?

But still I don't like when people can get, like 99 Arceus through hacking. I prefer in-game cheats/glitches. I can catch one Darkurai in my game (Surf Glitch) and to do that I have to get to the League and I could even risk my save file by trying (if I would take the wrong number of steps to get to the island). So I think that Darkurai, even if it's from a glitch, has great value (and also because it's my favorite Pokemon). 99 or 100 Arceus from hacking isn't worth much.
 
hacking items, is ok as long as you don't give that item to every one of yor pokemon
ex.: hacking focus sashes to give one to one of yor pokemon, then tossing away the rest.

hacking shinies: eh. well what does this have to do with competitive? shinies are the same as normal pokemon cept for color.

hacking iv/ev's: this is where people get me mad. i work hard to ev train, and spend most of my money on vitamins, while hackers just make pokemon instanly have max ev's, when we have to spend contless hours ev training.

i think hacking items(like tms for competive, ect.) are ok.
hacking shinies: semi-ok.: what does it matter about shinies? shinies are shinies, and shinies are the same as normal pokemon. and its not like its unlegit. (unless yo make like a mewtwo shiny caght at rt. 202,)
 
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