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Giratina ♀

what's your sign?
1,439
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    • Seen Jul 23, 2013
    Hmm.

    Well, I think you could have shown it, rather than told it. Something more like...

    Zero walked into the Lost Tower, shivering.

    Nearly tripping over a fallen tombstone as he entered, Zero [did and observed stuff that shows exactly how gloomy and miserable the TOWER is].

    "This place is... miserable," he muttered.
    i don't know. I pulled it out of nowhere. The point is, don't just hand us the facts up straight like that; when possible, like for describing a certain mood of a building, try to add some action in and let the character come to a conclusion about whether it was gloomy and miserable or not. Heck, the character could be a super-pessimist who's convinced the world is going to end on his eighteenth birthday and views the place as a shrine to the future or something!
     

    Misheard Whisper

    [b][color=#FF0000]I[/color] [color=#FF7F00]also[/c
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  • For description? Hmm . . . I'd say put a lot more in there. Like, you could spend half a page describing the Lost Tower, and at the end of it, your reader would be left with this really creepy, ominous feeling, if you'd done it right. Then you can proceed to pull out the Ghost Pokemon and scare the pants offen them. But you're just asking if it's any good. Any good at what? That sentence makes a lovely chocolate brownie, but I doubt that's what you mean.
     

    Misheard Whisper

    [b][color=#FF0000]I[/color] [color=#FF7F00]also[/c
    3,488
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  • That . . . sort of came out of nowhere. Firstly, though, this is the wrong forum. This is Pokemon Fan Fiction. Try Other Writing for non-Pokemon-related challenges.
     

    JX Valentine

    Your aquatic overlord
    3,277
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  • Backpedaling like whoa~! ♫

    Actual Mini Topic
    Is there any genre/mood/literary device that you just can't bear to read?

    Gonna agree on the note about moderation. In small doses, every genre is fine to me. It's when some of them (like fluffy romance) go to ridiculous degrees that bothers me. Even mindless humor is fine if I'm drunk and the writer actually knows how to write mindless humor. However, Dude, Where's My Car? (and two hours of basically Ashton Kutcher) will make me want to smash my head against something hard.

    Oh. Wait. That's a lie. There's one genre I usually like to avoid. High school fics. I don't know why you kids like taking one of the most miserable and awkward periods of your lives and force it on the entire cast of Pokémon, but it's never been my cup of tea, sorry to say. It's not because it was the most miserable and awkward period of my existence. It's because I can only guess if you guys actually realize how boring high school actually is. I don't know about you, but all romances I've seen happen in high school lasted about a month tops. And the classes? Yeah, seriously, guys? It's even more boring than you're actually portraying it. I mean, even if you are a geek, aren't most of you watching the clock every period?

    On the other hand, I have a sneaking suspicion that some of you aren't actually high school students and that your best exposure to high school life was High School Musical. At which point, I'd just like to say that Disney movies nowadays kinda suck (but this is just my opinion).


    Anyway...

    The Other Topics

    On Names: Actually, believe it or not, naming a Blaziken Fire is probably more creative than abusing a Japanese-to-English dictionary (which often doesn't tell you the connotations of each word, meaning whatever you use probably doesn't mean exactly fire or just fire), especially if it's true to the character (i.e., you, if you grew up in the Pokémon world) to do so. To be honest, we get a lot of either sparkly names (like Pyros) or Japanese names (like Mizu for a Water-type) in this fandom, so actually going back and calling something extremely simple is not only amusing but also something different.

    As in, if you were worried about this, then you really shouldn't be embarrassed. It gives your character... well, more character. However, do whatever you think you'd personally feel comfortable with, considering this is you.


    On Ratings: Depends on how gory the death is. Blood and violence usually garner you a PG-13 rating; descriptive gore is either M or R. For saying something along the lines of, "Oops, someone died" infrequently is fine for PG so long as you put up warnings in the first post, yes.


    On Self-Inserts: Pretty much what Dagzar said. Not all self-inserts are bad, and really, for more experienced reviewers, we can look past it.

    However, it should be noted that it's not necessarily true that everyone loves a Mary Sue. (If you need a better definition, Wikipedia actually has it.) A Mary Sue could be hated by people for no apparent reason or, sometimes, because the author wants to portray those people as bad. Really, a Mary Sue is all about dodging logic and making the canon around them warp to their liking. It's a vague definition, but it's one of those things that you know when you see it.

    To avoid it, the good/bad traits Dagzar mentioned is one part of it, as is just generally remembering that you're human too. I wouldn't mention a flaw or an ability unless they come into play somehow. For example, if you're afraid of spiders, that's great and all, but it doesn't keep your character from becoming a Sue unless you use it somehow. If you had your character lose an extremely important battle because he was facing an Ariados, then that's a step in the right direction. And then, if you have your character react the way you would if your friends told you off for letting your fears get to you, you'd have a non-Sue/developed character. So, yeah, it's not just in the traits. It's also in how you use them.

    (That easily annoyed bit should be interesting to see in play, at least.)


    On Beta Readers: Yes, it's highly recommended you get a beta-reader. They can not only help work out problems, but they can go over bits with you and tell you how you're doing in the production process if you get a notably patient one. In other words, basically, you've got someone who will take time to personally work with you, so you don't actually have to reveal parts of your story to the general public in order to get opinions as to whether or not a part works. (Not that we mind, but it depends on whether or not you're the kind of person who likes to keep your work secret until the moment you post it to avoid overemphasizing the hype. Also, it's really not recommended to have us go over every line in your fanfic. Really, occasional "hey, does this sound good" or "hey, I have a specific question about this" is kosher, but personally, I'm not sure if asking us to go over lines like this is a good idea, considering it's really what a beta or your reviewers should be doing. You're basically putting your fic line by line into the FFL, and there's no specific question we can answer here to help give you an idea of what to do in the future.)

    The thread Sparkling Dragon's talking about, by the way, is over yonder.


    On Description: Don't spend half a page describing a place. *facepalm* Seriously, don't. A paragraph or two should be sufficient but not one line if you're establishing a setting. In other words, find a place between one extreme (one line) and the other (half a page or more) for a balance. Giratinasaur's example (providing you fill in the details of what Zero is doing) is a good jumping off point.


    In the meantime...

    Sumizome seized his horrid growling and politely nodded in reply to his trainer's question.

    Protip: Homophones are little bastards. Always know what the words you're using mean.

    That said, he seized his horrid growling? You know that "to seize" means "to grab" and that growling is an intangible sound, right? Not to be biting or anything. You may mean "ceased" ("to end") here, however, which would make this sentence okay. (Personally, I think it might sound better if you said "nodded politely" to place the verb against the conjunction and make it consistent, but it's grammatically sound either way.)

    Basically, that sort of thing is why you'll probably want a beta-reader. Spell check just doesn't catch things like that because you're technically using real words. A beta, however, usually can.

    Good luck, either way.


    Also...

    Your challenge is to write crossover fanfiction combining Murphy Brown and 4chan. The story should use good characters becoming evil as a plot device

    This is the next 7Day7K prompt.
     
    Last edited:

    Shrike Flamestar

    The Invisible!
    212
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  • VelvetEspeon, as has been alluded to by the previous posters what you have done with that sentence is to essentially "tell" the reader the setting, rather than "show" it to them. While the sentence would be fine if you added further description of the tower following it, as it is we get the idea that it's gloomy and miserable yet we don't know why. What about the tower makes it so gloomy and miserable? Is it just really dark inside or is there something else, such as the presence of deceased spirits?

    Additionally, just saying that it's gloomy and miserable doesn't really convey that atmosphere well to the person reading. Even if you manage to tell us exactly why it's gloomy and miserable, without actually making the reader feel as if it's gloomy and miserable the writing simply isn't as effective. This ability to impart a certain feeling to the reader is called tone, and while it can be hard to perfect it's certainly one of a writer's most valuable assets when describing a particular setting. Without it you'll find your writing is bland and monotonous, and it can be hard to "show" the reader the scene if the reader constantly feels like they're reading legal papers and not an actual story.

    I wrote this up in a few minutes as an example of what I mean. It's perhaps a bit, um...excessive but it should show you what I mean. Pay attention to how much detail I put into the scene, and how through those details it can actually make you, the reader, feel as if they're in the scene through the tone that I convey.

    The boy named Shrike slowly walked up the steps leading to the ancient structure. Only the slightest of breezes blew past him, but even that was enough to send the various bells and chimes that hung from the tower's eaves into motion. Nervously, the boy stopped before the large doors that led into the tower, looking back over his shoulder at the setting sun. It would be dark soon, but he had made a commitment to take the journey to the top of the tower.

    Calming himself, Shrike placed his hands on the tower's doors. A chill suddenly ran down his spine as, in just one single moment, he felt his mind reach out and touch the spirits of the countless deceased Pokemon who were honored within the tower's halls. Brushing the feeling away, he slowly pushed open the doors and stepped past them into the building's shadowed interior. As Shrike walked down a dimly-lit hallway, stopping every now and then to examine barely-legible plaques that lined the walls, he progressively felt a feeling of dread and discomfort settle over him. Adding to the gloom mood within the tower, it was lit not by electrical power but by flickering candles. To the mind of the boy, the shadows of the flames seemed to hold a hundred ghosts in silent waiting, ready to submit the intruder to their schemes at any moment.

    Don't feel bad if you're having a hard time getting used to this stuff. It personally took me at least six years to develop my writing to a decent point, and no one expects you to learn everything in a day. Take your time and, if you find it helps, look around these forums for well-written fics that you can learn from. Sorry if this didn't help much, I'm not the best teacher or anything...

    And as for your second excerpt which popped up while I was writing this, you have some word usage problems. The word "seized" can't really be used in relation to a non-physical thing such as growling, as seizing something implies that someone grabbed someone, probably more violently than if they were to merely grab it normally. Something can also seize up, in which case they've stopped whatever they were doing, again in a rather violent and abrupt manner. It's this other definition which I am assuming you got mixed up on. While it is true that something's growling could seize up, implying that they suddenly stopped growling, you can't actually seize the growling. You could stop the growling, or the growling could seize up, or as a sort of compromise the growling could cease.

    Don't shy away from using "common" words such as stop, or halt. While you could use more "fancy" words such as seize, if you use them too much it will simply make it sound as if you're using those words only because they're fancy and not because of any meaning or tone they convey.

    And goddamit, Valentine, when did you start writing that? I swear, I am posting this now before I can be ninja'D again!
     

    Dagzar

    The Dreamer
    444
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  • Sumizome seized his horrid growling and politely nodded in reply to his trainer's question.
    Well, it's hard to tell since it's only one sentence, but here's what I think. The only problem with it that I can tell was that it took me a few minutes to decipher what you were trying to say in the first part. Maybe you should re-word it? Other than that, it's a fine sentence, but as said, there's not much to go on.

    EDIT: I knew I should have refreshed before posting! <_<
     

    JX Valentine

    Your aquatic overlord
    3,277
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  • And goddamit, Valentine, when did you start writing that? I swear, I am posting this now before I can be ninja'D again!

    Half an hour ago. :D The only reason why I knew about those newer posts was because I stopped in the middle of it to go check on something and found that three people (including Velvet) ninja'd me. *fistshake*

    But now I'm done editing.

    Also, I'm lazy, so I'm just going to say "word" to that entire post, including the bit about common words and showing instead of telling (which would also be a word to Dagzar for an earlier post).
     

    Misheard Whisper

    [b][color=#FF0000]I[/color] [color=#FF7F00]also[/c
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  • Sorry, Jax, I was exaggerating when I said half a page. And the description necessary/preferred varies. I mean, has anybody here read Christopher Paolini. There's so much description, internal dialogue, narrator voice and background it's just not funny. As a result, he ends up with this intricate, fantastic world with deep, explained tendrils, but a character asking a question on page one might get an answer halfway down page three. Which is why I never finished Brisingr.

    If you're describing a person, they will need a few lines of description. A building may need a few lines more. A city may need even more than that, a couple of paragraphs even. And intersperse description with action, so it's not so boring. Instead of talking about sharp cobblestones in the road, have your character step on one and get pissed off. Evolution taught us a lot of things. One of them is that we need to adapt to our environment. This extends to writing. Different genres need different things. I write across many genres, so I have to adapt. When I write horror, (yes, I write horror. Don't look at me like that) I use graphic, descriptive violence.

    Spoiler:


    Ick. I felt sick while writing that. It's not as graphic as it could be, but just picture it in your mind. *shudders*

    Likewise, other genres require other writing techniques etc.
     

    JX Valentine

    Your aquatic overlord
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  • Sorry, Jax, I was exaggerating when I said half a page.

    It's cool. I probably should have realized you were exaggerating, but at the moment, I'm actually really tired. And yet, I'm not going to bed yet. Go figure.

    I mean, has anybody here read Christopher Paolini.

    I keep telling myself I'll someday get past the prologue of Eragon. I mean, sorry to the fans, but... yeah. Not my cup of tea. It reminded me of Harry Potter, only... longer.

    I suppose there could be worse. Anne Rice once described a set of curtains for a paragraph (if I recall correctly). On the other hand, I was sort of skimming Blood & Gold because I was trying to get past the angsty bits and get to the dirty bits. Tip to anyone else out there, but don't try skimming the angsty bits of Blood & Gold. Even the dirty bits are angsty.

    And that is probably not that bad compared to Twilight, if only because at least the vampires in Rice novels roast. In Twilight, not only is it angsty vampire smut, but it's also high school fic, so...

    So, in other words, maybe I should stop ranting about books before I go any further and make half the internet want to tear me apart. And then throw me into a fire. Because that's what the Cullens do at the end of Twilight, so.

    What were we talking about again?
     

    Shrike Flamestar

    The Invisible!
    212
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  • And here is some more words for you all. Just call it a supplemental to my last post or something.

    Is there any genre/mood/literary device that you just can't bear to read?
    Not really. Despite everything I've alluded to in the past I can't stand hardcore sex (aka, lemons) but that's about it. Romance in general can get on my nerves but if it's done well and not thrown in your face with the force of a cannonball, it's okay. Extended periods of elated happiness can also get on my nerves somewhat but that's just because I'm really an angsty emo at heart.

    Seriously.

    Names! My main character is named Shrike Flamestar. Flamestar! Dear god it's the worst thing I've ever thought up. It was even worse before, though. Blade Flamestar. Yeah, I should just shove Shrike under the carpet and pretend like he never existed and change names to Tashima Navara (main character of my second fic, TRINITY). But TFC has always been my main fic and always will no matter how awesome I think TRINITY is. ;_;

    *Coughs*

    Yeah, I also have a Typhlosion simply named Havoc in TRINITY, as well as one named Inferno in a private piece of writing. I'm not exactly one for creative Pokemon names and so can't fault others. TFC can be somewhat deceptive with names such as Matariel and Jehiel, but then you also have Fury and everything goes down the drain again. The only truly original Pokemon name I have is Zethro. All those other fancy names that all end in -el are just angel names that I got off the internet and which do, actually, play a part in the plot.

    Ratings! For my ratings, I generally go by two things foremost: the tone and setting of the story, and the gore level. And yes, that's two and not three because I said so. Deal with it. The plot also plays a part of course, as well as minor details such as swearing and references to alcohol/drugs. TFC has a largely normal setting, but can get dark in places. Due largely to one of the evil organizations being an anti-Pokemon cult that violently kills Pokemon whenever they can, I don't want to rate it any lower than PG-14 so that I can ensure that none of the young kids who come here are tempted to read it. Additionally, it has some swearing and some rather gruesome depictions of blood and gore, so I bump that up to PG-15 to be on the safe side. Taking it even further I explicitly mention this stuff when I give the rating, so that readers will know ahead of time what they can expect.

    On the extreme end of the spectrum is my new oneshot, Haunting at the Old Chateau, which I really need to write the second part for as well as add a link to my sig. Its setting is very dark and very creepy due to its intended horror genre. The largest aspect, however, is the incredibly gruesome depictions of death through some rather sadistic means. As I intentionally wrote those scenes to be as gruesome as possible and due to the fact that they are central to the fic, I bumped that one all the way up to R on violence alone.

    Mere mentions of death and close calls, however, would likely merit no more than PG-13 without special circumstances. If nothing else in the story is really that bad, than simply PG could work just fine. It you do have blood and stuff (such as through more realistic battles) though, than PG-13 might be worth considering.

    And don't you get me started on gore, Sparkling Dragon. You've read my HatOC fic (I'm never using that abbreviation again. It's aweful), and might I tell you that what I wrote there didn't even faze me as much despite what others have said about it. Being cut in half due to the destabilization of what was reforming them? Please, I see that on TV.

    Now, when was the last time you saw something being run over by a friggen' lawn mower on TV?

    Oh god I so need to get back to that story. I, unfortunately, have bigger priorities right now though. And they don't involve gore, so sorry. Well they do involve robot guts (ie, circuitry), but I don't think that counts.

    Valentine said:
    This is the next 7Day7K prompt.
    Awesome. Maybe that'll be enough to drag me out of my slump and get me to write! Or maybe I could stop replying to this thread and just get to working on TRINITY like I had meant to when I first sat down at the computer and started playing Ghost in the Shell music. God this music is good, and pretty much the best thing I can listen to when trying to write a story inspired by GitS.

    But nooooooo, instead you people, and I use that term very lightly with some of you, make me go and write droves of stuff in this thread instead. I swear, haven't we been through this before? I'm pretty sure that I'm supposed to hate everyone here and so aren't supposed to reply to this or, for that matter, any thread.

    And I was ninja'd again but said ninja post HAS NO RELEVANCE TO THIS ONE, SO HAH!
     
    10,175
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    Your challenge is to write crossover fanfiction combining Murphy Brown and 4chan. The story should use good characters becoming evil as a plot device
    Your challenge, if you choose to accept it, is to not be a troll in my section. Go bother another staff member.

    ...

    I would respond to things that are actually on-topic, but I'm ignorant when it comes to writing.
     

    Misheard Whisper

    [b][color=#FF0000]I[/color] [color=#FF7F00]also[/c
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  • For Arceus' sake, Astinus. [/shuts up]

    Jax, curtains?

    Anyway, going on from what I was saying before . . .

    Jokefics require light banter and quick wit, both of which I fail at.
    Spoiler:


    Deep, philosophical fics on the meaning of life or what it means to be a Pokemon Trainer require deep, thoughtful prose, complex language (err...) and . . . deep stuff that makes you sound like you know what you're on about when in reality you have no effing clue.

    Spoiler:

    Spoiler:


    And that's just the start of it. Those examples were all written by me, yet each is different and unique in its style.

    Would this fit in the Reviewing and You thread?

    *Takies shameless opportunity to advertise* Would anyone actually be interested in reading the above horror fic?
     

    JX Valentine

    Your aquatic overlord
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  • Jax, curtains?

    Yes, my dear. Curtains. They were purple, if I recall correctly.

    ...Which, now that I think about it, is astoundingly hilarious and brilliant if I wasn't mistaken.

    But it's been several years since I've read the book (which I no longer have, and I can't remember what I did with it), so it's likely that this passage doesn't exist. However, if one read Rice's work, one wouldn't be surprised if it does.

    Would this fit in the Reviewing and You thread?

    Hmm. I thought this was what part of your earlier guide was saying, but if it's something else and I'm just overly tired (Why am I not in bed yet, kids?), then go for it.
     
    10,175
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    For Arceus' sake, Astinus. [/shuts up]
    :(

    Sorry. But I don't think the excuse of "I'm eating meat off the bone like a caveman so I can't type right now" would have flown.

    But the honest truth is that I can't explain anything that I do. I learn how to do something, and what works for me, and when it comes time to explain how I do something, it just doesn't work. I get stuck.

    So it's just easier to say that I don't know how to do something than to run through the "I don't know how to explain a thing" story. Because the first just makes it seem like I just don't know how to do it, so I get left alone. The latter makes me seem really selfish.

    But that's just how I am. I know what to do myself, but sharing tips is something I literally can't do. (This is why I can't work on a team either, because I'm stubborn enough to just not bend my ways to work with another person.) It doesn't matter what the task is either. I have my way that works for me, and that's it. It's unexplainable.

    That's me, with my faults and issues, and I know how to handle 'em. I say I don't know what I'm doing right up front instead of getting trapped trying to explain something and waste everyone's time.

    Like, with how much description is too much. I know the answer, but explaining how I know that, and how much description is necessary is something I can't do.

    -

    If you were talking about the deleted post, I really don't have a high tolerance for trolls, especially when my sections always get hit by trolls. :(

    -

    Also, let me just slap a disclaimer on this post saying that I'm so tired, I don't know how to keep my thoughts straight anymore. (I almost called my dog my Internet name, and they're not even close.) Plus, I've been sick.

    So that's another reason why I appear to be rather ignorant about things, because I sound like I don't know anything while talking, and I can't keep a thing straight.

    On the plus side, one more week and VACATION!
     
    Last edited:

    JX Valentine

    Your aquatic overlord
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  • If anyone's curious, I just checked (via Google Books, thank you), and the passage does not exist. However, I was thinking of this one, which involves a half a page rant about hair that begins with curtains.

    So, the lesson is, don't talk about the flipping curtains, guys. It makes you go off on weird tangents.
     

    Misheard Whisper

    [b][color=#FF0000]I[/color] [color=#FF7F00]also[/c
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  • I can see purple curtains becoming the next FFL meme . . .

    Oh, and I call dibs on the 9,999th post in this thread! =P
     
    10,175
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    Then let me announce...

    LET THE SPAMMING COMMENCE!

    And the person who takes Sparkling Dragon's 9999th post will be smacked by my mod stick. =P
     
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