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Garchomp Tier Discussion / Debate

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I disagree strongly with the last comment. From a person who is constantly losing due to cheap hax that is out of my control, I cannot stand losing due to Sand Veil hax.
 
c_dog said:
a lot of sweepers can be dangerous at the end of games. i've swept teams with light ball pikachu several times late game. sandveil is hax but i've learned to deal with it. if i lose due to sandveil(which i don't think i have since I rarely get garchomp in sandstorm) then so be it.
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Just figured I'd point out that you were only talking about your opinion in those statements, and how you could sweep a team and not care about Sand Veil. However many of us feel differently. If you're in a tournament, and you are both down to your last Pokemon, with the Sand up. You use Psychic with Zam, and you miss, when you should have rightfully finished him off. Yeah, I know this could happen with other Pokemon, however they don't have the Stat capabilities and movepool that Garchomp gets alongside that ability.
 
c_dog said:
well, if you look at it this way. garchomp is considered almost uber status, so losing 1 poke while getting a revenge kill on it isn't such a bad trade off. i mean it's basically 1 for 1, but you're getting rid of a borderline "uber" while only losing an OU :P
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You do realize the idea of the game is to get ahead so that you have more Pkmn still in fighting shape than your opponent, right? Going one for one is not extremely helpful to either side.

a lot of sweepers can be dangerous at the end of games. i've swept teams with light ball pikachu several times late game. sandveil is hax but i've learned to deal with it. if i lose due to sandveil(which i don't think i have since I rarely get garchomp in sandstorm) then so be it.
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You may rarely get him in a Sandstorm rarely, but do you know how common T-Tar and Hippowdon are? Lots of people use them, many of them for the very purpose of activating Sand Veil. That means hax is very commonly responsibly for Garchomp sweeps and last time I checked standard rules try to eliminate as much hax as possible by banning things like Double Team and Scope Lens.
 
Ok i would seriously consider they not think Garchomp is the absolute best pokemon ok i have beaten every type of garchomp with my scarfmie (choice scarf starmie). i do consider him a threat do to him gettin the hax from sandveil. But i think he was put into the suspect ladder because he is so ou its like he went out of style. also maybe its so that people can try and have some creativity i mean common standard is not always the best thing people need to try and consider other outputs. I mean whats the point of playing pokemon if everybody is using the same pokemon over and over again. I think this suspect test is a very good idea i think they should start banning other ou pokemon like garchomp like tyranitar and salamence. If people cant use other pokemon than the standards of what people say are the best then why even play pokemon. I even find it more interesting to study pokemon than to even consider battling. Battling today is not as fun as it used to people dont use their favorite pokemon ne more or people dont even like pokemon that much they just like the feel of winning cause they use the same thing over and over. I do think the suspect ladder is a good idea banning one of the most ou pokemon in the game is good to show people that the standards is not always the way to go.

Also if neone tryies to bash me because of this post then so be it i dont realy care not like im gonna be loosing sleep over it ne way. its my own opinion of u dont like it deal. at least i respect everyone elses opinion.
 
There are plenty of Pokemon that you can stick a scarf on and OHKO with Ice Beam. The only thing is, there aren't any COUNTERS for it. That's the whole point. There isn't a single Pokemon in existence that can switch into a Garchomp without fearing an attack, and then kill it or scare it away.
 
/*.Ooka.*/ said:
Just figured I'd point out that you were only talking about your opinion in those statements, and how you could sweep a team and not care about Sand Veil. However many of us feel differently. If you're in a tournament, and you are both down to your last Pokemon, with the Sand up. You use Psychic with Zam, and you miss, when you should have rightfully finished him off. Yeah, I know this could happen with other Pokemon, however they don't have the Stat capabilities and movepool that Garchomp gets alongside that ability.
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all part of the game, unfortunately. i don't see how that's much different from stone edge missing. granted, one can always pick a more accurate move in place of stone edge like rock slide to avoid that, but there's nothing we can do about sandveil. still, kind of all part of the game. it just makes garchomp one of the more haxy pokemon, more so than say flinch hax togekiss. it's still debateable whether that warrants him being moved to ubers, and quite frankly i don't have a strong stance on either side.
 
Mexirican said:
Ok i would seriously consider they not think Garchomp is the absolute best pokemon ok i have beaten every type of garchomp with my scarfmie (choice scarf starmie).

Yache Berry go!

i think they should start banning other ou pokemon like garchomp like tyranitar and salamence.

Tar and Mence are nowhere near the threat level of Garchomp.

I do think the suspect ladder is a good idea banning one of the most ou pokemon in the game is good to show people that the standards is not always the way to go.

That is not the point of the suspect ladder.
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Sand Veil is just the icing on the cake. Garchomp is uberesque for many more important reasons.
 
Another factor to consider is that while HP ice jolteon and Ice Punch Weavile do easily OHKO Garchomp, Garchomp (especially Choice Band) doesn't have much of a problem switching out. Spikes are mostly seen on Skarmory, Toxic Spikes aren't seen in OU and as Garchomp, while the little bit of pain is unattractive, has no problem switching back into a Stealth Rock set-up. The best strategy to use against Garchomp is to switch a Weavile into it, then hit it with an STAB boosted Pursuit as it switches. Also remember that once Outrage is activated, Garchomp can't be switched out until that Outrage wears out. Once Garchomp has KO'd one of your pokemon, switch in a Weavile, and Garchomp can't run, so it's open to a faster Ice Punch.
Also, you can't forget that if Garchomp is sent to Uber, people won't want to trash their Garchomp. They'll proceed to use it in Uber, and while the numbers of use won't be as enormous as they are in OU, there will still be a fair bit of them. And, say what you want, but Garchomp, with it's speed and attack is more than viable to be used in Uber. Therefore, Uber users will have to narrow their teams so that they can fit a lugia in their team to counter Garchomp, despite how rampant Lugia already is.

Edit: I forgot to mention however, that although Hippowdon and Tyranitar do make their rare appearance in Uber, due to Groudon and Kyogre, Garchomps ability becomes pretty much Obsolete.

Tortured_Soul said:
There are plenty that can scare it away, the problem is is that Garchomp can do just that. Switch out to a counter, and once that problem pokemon is gone, in comes Garchomp again to wreak havoc.

~T_S
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Precisely why most people keep Garchomp to late game where they have annihilated the counter(s) and in comes Chomp to sweep the rest.
 
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I gotta say, besides all the many agruments for and against Garchomp in OU. I've been playing a lot of The Suspect Ladder, and I'm getting more enjoyment out of it. Sure some pokemon's uses have gone up (Lucario to name one) but I've seen more diversity. I havn't been in a (respectable) battle that was a total sweep for eather side.
I hate running into Celebi's and Cresselia, but some sets have surprised me now that they don't have to be set up with Garchomp in mind.
Overall I think Garchomp in Ubers is just better for the game. (Excuse the sports cliche)
 
Does anybody have a comment on how overwhelming Garchomp usage has been attributed to a shrinking OU, or are we all cool with that? =P
 
I did a quick check on Smogon. I glanced at the strategies listed in ubers, checking which ones have either a dragon or an ice move in at least one of their suggested strategies. 16 out of 19 ubers have at least one of those two. 8 of those are ice. 6 of them are dragon stab. I agree that he's too good for OU, but in Ubers he'd be very dead. He would be rule banned from OU tourney, and just not used in ubers.
 
Spazzy said:
I did a quick check on Smogon. I glanced at the strategies listed in ubers, checking which ones have either a dragon or an ice move in at least one of their suggested strategies. 16 out of 19 ubers have at least one of those two. 8 of those are ice. 6 of them are dragon stab. I agree that he's too good for OU, but in Ubers he'd be very dead. He would be rule banned from OU tourney, and just not used in ubers.
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That's pretty much the gist of it. A poke is not tier'd by how bad he is in one, but how good it is in the other. Garchomp may get bullied in ubers, but that doesnt really matter because he's been bullying OU for the past year. Its like regular deoxys- Absolutely terrible in ubers, literally never used. But if you made him OU he would destroy pretty much everything.
 
Spazzy said:
I did a quick check on Smogon. I glanced at the strategies listed in ubers, checking which ones have either a dragon or an ice move in at least one of their suggested strategies. 16 out of 19 ubers have at least one of those two. 8 of those are ice. 6 of them are dragon stab. I agree that he's too good for OU, but in Ubers he'd be very dead. He would be rule banned from OU tourney, and just not used in ubers.
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Lmao, you must not understand correctly, and if you don't understand, you shouldn't post.

A Pokemon gets moved to Ubers when it gets banned from OU/BL. It doesn't matter how the Pokemon functions in Uber, but how it functions in OU.

And besides, Donphan can't even hold the role of taking out Garchomp anymore, since Ice Shard doesn't 2HKO unless it's CB, which gives it even less defensive capabilities.
 
I can say from personal experience that I am fed up with Garchomp. It cannot be taken down easily and it's a total pain. The OU metagame will be much more competitive without it, due to it being a closer contest. I strongly put forward that it should become Uber. The fact that people construct teasm around defeating it shows its power and how people are very wary of it's power. Uber please.
 
I used to be "Garchomp for OU," but after a recent beating by one on Shoddy...

"Infernape used Hidden Power [Ice]!"
"Infernape's attack missed!"
----
"Mamoswine used Ice Shard!"
"Mamoswine's attack missed!"
----
"Starmie used Ice Beam!"
"Starmie's attack missed!"

And getting thumped on my ass, I agree with the general consensus that Chomp needs to go.
 
Gofre said:
That's pretty much the gist of it. A poke is not tier'd by how bad he is in one, but how good it is in the other. Garchomp may get bullied in ubers, but that doesnt really matter because he's been bullying OU for the past year. Its like regular deoxys- Absolutely terrible in ubers, literally never used. But if you made him OU he would destroy pretty much everything.
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I can't remember when I typed that, but I think it was pretty late, so I don't know what my thoughts are. Knowing myself, I probably put that "he's too good for OU" saying that he should be Uber, but whether or not I was of that thought process, you're right.

Oh an Ooka, Gofre said the same exact thing as you, except he managed to do it without insulting someone for no reason. Amazing how that works isn't it?
 
The problem with Garchomp is,that it is EXACTLY liek Deoxys.It does wup ass in OU,because even i can wup ass with it,but it wil get bullied iwth ubers.I never was Garchomp for OU.I only use it because it's strong.If it was put into ubers poepel would have to figure out new tactics with it,whihc means it woudl liven up uber instead of biring out OU.So,it ouwld also do two good ithngs.Overall,i inthk it shodu definitely be in ubers
 
He didn't insult you, he told you not to post about things you don't understand so you wouldn't look stupid. Great advice, really.

So we're all for ubering Garchomp? Why was it unbanned last time?
 
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