Garchomp Tier Discussion / Debate

[Magmortified]

Wait a second, why would people have to figure out new tactics for Garchomp in Ubers and thus liven it up?

Can't you use Garchomp in Ubers right now? ._.

 

[Divine~Deoxys]

Because osmoene said it had counters.Yeah,and because i took out a Wobby with my Mamoswine,does that mean Wobby's UU?

 

[Dark Azelf]

The problem with Garchomp is,that it is EXACTLY liek Deoxys.

Nope, its nothing like deoxys tbh..

It does wup ass in OU,because even i can wup ass with it,but it wil get bullied iwth ubers.

Just because Garchomp may get "bullied" in ubers, it doesnt mean it cant be placed there.

If a pokemon is deemed too broken for the OU tier or any tier, it will be moved up a tier or tiers. No matter how much the pokemon sucks in said higher tier.

See regular deoxys, it completely blows compared with its other forms in ubers, however its still too broken for OU, so in ubers it stays.

I never was Garchomp for OU.I only use it because it's strong.If it was put into ubers poepel would have to figure out new tactics with it,whihc means it woudl liven up uber instead of biring out OU.So,it ouwld also do two good ithngs.Overall,i inthk it shodu definitely be in ubers

I honestly didnt understand any part of this post...

Because osmoene said it had counters.Yeah,and because i took out a Wobby with my Mamoswine,does that mean Wobby's UU?

Wait wut ?

Whoopty do, "I R BEETING KYOGRE WITH DUNSPARCEZ".


Just because you beat an uber with a lower tier pokemon it still doesnt determine which tier its in.


Hell, ive used Poliwrath in OU, and its beaten things from Gyarados, through weavile and tyranitar even Salamence.

Ive even beat a Blissey with a NP Houndoom =/.


Still IS NOT going to affect the tier of those threats i beat with lower tier pokes.

 

[shedinjask]

You're misunderstanding here. He didn't say because it can be countered by lower tiers that it's a lower tier. He said the exact opposite.

Who said it had counters and how did they manage to convince anyone after that thread we had?

 

[Archer]

Ok, I'm going to break this down too, but there are some points this can emphasise.

The problem with Garchomp is,that it is EXACTLY liek Deoxys.

No. No. Garchomp is bulkier and doesn't need Life Orb and coverage to sweep. Deoxys is also shut down by Thunder Wave. Keep in mind that Deoxys even has counters - Bronzong, Metgross, Jirachi, Forretress (it works ☺). Nor does deoxys have that kind of typing - It has 3 weaknesses and no immunities to switch in on. Think about it more.

It does wup ass in OU,because even i can wup ass with it,but it wil get bullied iwth ubers.

Ok, what you can do with it is not worth considering in the slightest. Jumpluff is awesome if played by someone with good prediction, but it's still UU.
As for it "Getting Bullied" in Ubers, lol. It has 102 Spd. Enough to outspeed most Uber threats. There are other reasons, but whether or not it can cope in Ubers is not a concern. (ERG - Equal Rights for Garchomps....) Uber is an OU ban, as BL is a UU ban. Many BLs suck in OU, but they are too good for UU, thus, they are banned.

I never was Garchomp for OU.I only use it because it's strong.If it was put into ubers poepel would have to figure out new tactics with it,whihc means it woudl liven up uber instead of biring out OU.So,it ouwld also do two good ithngs.Overall,i inthk it shodu definitely be in ubers

Ok, I think that acually has some merit. It would give more pokemon play in OU, but that is not the main concern. Blissey was SO overused, yet there was no attempt to ever ban it. (Except for the "NO SKARMBLISS" user comments in the old Netbattle.)

My Vote - Uber.

 

[Divine~Deoxys]

Wait wut ?

Whoopty do, "I R BEETING KYOGRE WITH DUNSPARCEZ".


Just because you beat an uber with a lower tier pokemon it still doesnt determine which tier its in.


Hell, ive used Poliwrath in OU, and its beaten things from Gyarados, through weavile and tyranitar even Salamence.

Ive even beat a Blissey with a NP Houndoom =/.


Still IS NOT going to affect the tier of those threats i beat with lower tier pokes.

I was being sarcastic D_A.Wobby is the msot definite uber ever to me,as its not oing to stay in agaisnt osmeihng that can 1HKO it,therefore yo uahve to keep the counter alive and keep pursuiting it.Shedinjask understood waht i said at least.
Archer,waht i was saying was that jsut lke Deoxys,it is oing to get bullied in ubers.JHowever,i believe in NRG (No Rights for Garchomps).What i can do proves that it is too easy to use and kill stuff,as although i understand everytihng,i'm still fair rubbish at battling.

 

[Archer]

I was being sarcastic D_A.Wobby is the msot definite uber ever to me,as its not oing to stay in agaisnt osmeihng that can 1HKO it,therefore yo uahve to keep the counter alive and keep pursuiting it.Shedinjask understood waht i said at least.
Archer,waht i was saying was that jsut lke Deoxys,it is oing to get bullied in ubers.JHowever,i believe in NRG (No Rights for Garchomps).What i can do proves that it is too easy to use and kill stuff,as although i understand everytihng,i'm still fair rubbish at battling.

Look, as modest as you were, you need to understand that Uber is an OU ban. NOT where the pokemon is most competent.

 

[Divine~Deoxys]

I understand that part.And at least someoen doesn't jsut have a go at me for posting stuff.

 

[Walrein]

I think Iv'e already said that, but Skill Link Icicle Spear Cloyster can ruin Yache Berry.
Lopunny can also Swicherro it's Yache for Choice Specs on physical sets, and if possible, on SD (Loppuny is faster BTW) and use Ice Punch.

 

[Divine~Deoxys]

I'll take your word for it.The thing is,you want to have a poke that can do stuff other thna be a Garchomp Counter,adn,to be honest,you don't see many Lopunnys and i'm not about to add one jsut to counter chomp.Can i jsut make a point though?Latios with maxx speed and Ice Beam coudl give Garchomp a run around.If it were OU,they'd be quite well mstched,Latias more so,but,like Garchomp,Latias is more uber,whereas Latios has counters vewry common.

 

[sims796]

Ok, that's it. First off, Aquilae already explanied why Cloyster won't work. Second, random UU pokemon won't cut it. Even if they happen to beat chomp (any faster UU can, like Lopunny, um...), stop using UU pokes that won't make it anywhere else in the metagame.

 

[GeneralGuy]

Garchomp isn't as huge of a threat that people claim him to be. There are several counters who can easily OHKO sets without a Yache Berry.

 

[Azonic]

Garchomp isn't as huge of a threat that people claim him to be. There are several counters who can easily OHKO sets without a Yache Berry.

Uh, no. Counters are Pokemon that can switch into another without any harm done. No Pokemon can switch into Garchomp's SD'd Outrage, except for steel Pokemon, who die to Fire Fang and Earthquake. SDChomp 2HKOs most things in the game.

Oh, and if you think you have a counter for Garchomp, then name them instead of just saying that it has counters.

I guess Weavile can counter YacheChomp on the Swords Dance, since Ice Punch OHKOs even through Yache Berry without a Swords Dance. At least that's what happened to me. >:<

Garchomp's counters: Focus Band Weavile with Focus Band working 2 times in a row without Sandstorm. That and ubers.

 

[GeneralGuy]

Uh, no. Counters are Pokemon that can switch into another without any harm done. No Pokemon can switch into Garchomp's SD'd Outrage, except for steel Pokemon, who die to Fire Fang and Earthquake. SDChomp 2HKOs most things in the game.

Oh, and if you think you have a counter for Garchomp, then name them instead of just saying that it has counters.

I guess Weavile can counter YacheChomp on the Swords Dance, since Ice Punch OHKOs even through Yache Berry without a Swords Dance. At least that's what happened to me. >:<

Garchomp's counters: Focus Band Weavile with Focus Band working 2 times in a row without Sandstorm. That and ubers.

My Bold Slowbro can counter Garchomp, Gyarados and Infernape.

 

[Dark Azelf]

My Bold Slowbro can counter Garchomp, Gyarados and Infernape.

How ?


Bold Slowbro is OHKO'd by Infernape's Grass Knot (Assuming your talking about the omnipresent Mixape or just infernape in general)


Bite LO Gyarados 2HKO's Slowbro


CB Chomp also 2hko's Slowbro with Outrage iirc.

 

[Walrein]

Ok, that's it. First off, Aquilae already explanied why Cloyster won't work. Second, random UU pokemon won't cut it. Even if they happen to beat chomp (any faster UU can, like Lopunny, um...), stop using UU pokes that won't make it anywhere else in the metagame.

I said Iclce Spear, not Ice Shard! Skill link ensures it will hit 5 times, while the first will eliminate Yache, and four more hits for easy damage. Then Ice Shard can be used as well. And I really have a hard time beliving a pokemon with 180 base defense will fall so easily to a physical move it is not weak to.

 

[Ársa]

My Bold Slowbro can counter Garchomp, Gyarados and Infernape.

Your Bold Slowbro can bite me. +2 Adamant Outrage does 74.11% - 87.06%. (Easy 2HKO) Slowbro can't OHKO through Yache Berry, and even without Yache Berry, it only has approx 60% chance.

 

[El Gofre]

I said Iclce Spear, not Ice Shard! Skill link ensures it will hit 5 times, while the first will eliminate Yache, and four more hits for easy damage. Then Ice Shard can be used as well. And I really have a hard time beliving a pokemon with 180 base defense will fall so easily to a physical move it is not weak to.

That's not the point- This is a discussion about garchomp and the OU metagame, and the UUs that are consistently mentioned do not appear frequently enough to be deemed fully-fledged counters.

And another thing, here's some calcs. It's cloyster@bold252Def/252HP against a standard Garchomp with one SD:

Outrage: 62-72%
Earthquake: 51-60%
Fire Fang: 24-27%
DC used: Metalkid

To quote D_A, A "counter" is a pokemon that takes little risk when switching into an enemy pokemon and provides an immediate threat. Cloyster can only switch in on one of garchomp's attacks, which is only there for skarmory and Bronzong anyway- The former of which does the exact-same job. Hence you'd need to be running two physical walls in a single team just to be able to viably have a chance of switching cloyster in, and once it's in it just get's 2HKO'd as you break it's yache berry and hope for a run of 5 spears.

 

[sims796]

Meaning, as he switches in, Cloyster loses half his HP. The next hit when Chomp goes first will KO.

 

[Walrein]

That's not the point- This is a discussion about garchomp and the OU metagame, and the UUs that are consistently mentioned do not appear frequently enough to be deemed fully-fledged counters.

And another thing, here's some calcs. It's cloyster@bold252Def/252HP against a standard Garchomp with one SD:

Outrage: 62-72%
Earthquake: 51-60%
Fire Fang: 24-27%
DC used: Metalkid

To quote D_A, A "counter" is a pokemon that takes little risk when switching into an enemy pokemon and provides an immediate threat. Cloyster can only switch in on one of garchomp's attacks, which is only there for skarmory and Bronzong anyway- The former of which does the exact-same job. Hence you'd need to be running two physical walls in a single team just to be able to viably have a chance of switching cloyster in, and once it's in it just get's 2HKO'd as you break it's yache berry and hope for a run of 5 spears.

What was mentioned before is that Cloyster will be OHKO, but 2HKO is bad as well.
Isn't there any pokemon that can prevent it from SDing?