Gay Rights Debate

[Kim]

Um, about the greeks encouraging homesexuality, I heard or read somewhere that the only reason they did it is because they saw women too lowly to be with and gloryfied other men as they were far superior to women so it was yes, encouraged because of that.

Oh yes, clearly. Tha'ts why they had female goddesses.

And those goddesses enchanted those oh-so-better men.

And women were documented to perform homosexual acts in Greek mythology, too.

Clearly, it was because they thought women were dirt.

 

[Psycho]

DragonTrainer, you're not completely inaccurate. The belief that men were superior to women also existed. "Beauty and intellectualism is embodied within young men" was the Greek ideal. The goal of Greek education was for men to aspire mental and physical perfection. Women were seen to be infinitesimal, ancient Greek society was voluminously patriarchal and male dominated. Women were viewed as caretakers, mothers of the men's children, and veritably excluded from public life and intellectual affairs. The fact that women were not seen or treated as equal is indeed a fact.

The earliest accounts of homosexuality can be found in pagan religious practices. During early human history people began to worship many gods; most of which were associated with fertility. Asherah, one of the early gods of the Assyrians, was worshipped as the goddess of fertility. Often the worship of this goddess included orgies and various other sexual practices; they would attempt to supplicate or conciliate Asherah in order to gain fertility for themselves, their tribe, or their clan.

In other areas, such as Rome, Homosexual acts were commited on pagan holidays for celebration. Men would become intoxicated, have sex with each other, and beat/rape the women.

However it wasn't as widely accepted or the social barometer as many people seem to think.

"And whether one makes the observation in earnest or in jest, one certainly should not fail to observe that when male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but it is AGAINST nature when male mates with male or female with female, and that those first guilty of such enormities were impelled by their slavery to pleasure." Plato Laws 1.636c

"If we were to follow in nature's steps and enact that law which held good before the days of Laius, declaring that it is right to refrain from indulging in the same kind of intercourse with men and boys as with women, and adducing as evidence thereof the nature of wild beasts, and pointing out how male does not touch male for this purpose, since it is unnatural,--in all this we would probably be using an argument neither convincing nor in any way consonant with your States." Plato Laws 8.836c

"I maintain that our regulation on this head must go forward and proclaim that our citizens must not be worse than fowls and many other animals which are produced in large broods, and which live chaste and celibate lives without sexual intercourse until they arrive at the age for breeding; and when they reach this age they pair off, as instinct moves them, male with female and female with male;" Plato Laws 8.840d
"We might forcibly effect one of two things in this matter of sex-relations,--either that no one should venture to touch any of the noble and freeborn save his own wedded wife, nor sow any unholy and bastard seed in fornication, nor any unnatural and barren seed in sodomy,--or else we should entirely abolish love for males" Plato Laws 8.841d

"When Zeus created humans and their other soul properties, he ingrained them in every human being. However, he left SHAME out. Since he didn't know where to insert it, he commanded that it (shame) be inserted in the anus. Shame, however, complained about this and was very upset. Since shame was profusely complaining, shame said: "I will only agree to be inserted this way (i.e., in the anus) and whoever is inserted after me, I will come out." From this day on, may every sexually inclined person who chooses this method be SHAMEFUL!" Aesop's Fables, Zeus and Aeschyne (Shame)"

become one of the nine archons, nor to discharge the office of priest, nor to act as an advocate for the state, nor shall he hold any office whatsoever, at home or abroad, whether filled by lot or by election; he shall not be sent as a herald; he shall not take part in debate, nor be present at the public sacrifices; when the citizens are wearing garlands, he shall wear none; and he shall not enter within the limits of the place that has been purified for the assembling of the people. Any man who has been convicted of defying these prohibitions pertaining to sexual conduct shall be put to death (Aeschines. "Contra Timarchus," as cited in Georgiades, p. 69).

Debunking the Myth of Homosexuality in Ancient Greece
By Adonis Georgiades

Though, some of you may wish to visit this website.

Psycho

 

[Kim]

I love how you avoided all the points of my post.

 

[NiNGi]

Before I give my opinion, may I know whether this is a free-speech-zone or a ningi-stfu kind of environment?

 

[Psycho]

NiNGi, go ahead and give your opinion at your own discretion.

I love how you avoided all the points of my post.

That wasn't directed at you in particular. There is some truth to what DragonTrainer stated, though he wasn't completely correct. However, I love how you avoided the remainder of my post which basically refuted the whole "Homosexuality was widely accepted in Ancient Greece" argument.

Also, don't worry I wouldn't avoid your so-called points, as I'm ascertain that I could refute them with ease either way - if they aren't obviously fallacious.

Edit:

Heh, I'll make it short 'cause I drank too much beer tonight and can't be bothered to write anything:
Gay people disgust me. I am not the kind of person that respects what I don't like, so I think they should be cruelly killed on sight.

That doesn't include lesbians... Lesbians are hawt, so I've nothing against them. ^___^

That deserves a standing ovation. XD

But seriously if that's your opinion I can live with it, nevertheless, you may want to watch how you say things, as opposed to what you say.

Psycho

 

[NiNGi]

Heh, I'll make it short 'cause I drank too much beer tonight and can't be bothered to write anything:
Gay people disgust me. I am not the kind of person that respects what I don't like, so I think they should be cruelly killed on sight.

That doesn't include lesbians... Lesbians are hawt, so I've nothing against them. ^___^

 

[Freenaturearts]

Arnt these the kind of posts that get um... CLOSED Oo;

I myself believe it isint in OUR possision to say what is best for them, hell right now I wanna shoot ningi and where friends!, you wanna like les gals then you need to respect ALL ASPECTS!... I know Rob is ganna say a thing or two that you deserve, but these people do nothing to you and there no different then you and me, Heck if anything where the plague. They just live there life happily and if we want to get political, They came down here to show us how to look past that =/ why wont people like you ever learn..


And why are posts like THAT ^ of ningi alowed, when I try to defend my religion and I get my *** kicked 50 miles and almost banned just from expressing my cares about it all =/ this is severly uncallfor for a thread and I think it really downgrades PC...



Edit: Specialy when I'm a Pagan and I cant defend myself, But oh let us say what *****es are and your all up on us ! X_X This is why I left a few months back, when will you guys just look past the darn race and religion huh?! heck half of you are christans and hypacrits XD If anything your the one doing all the damage, it's not mild people like us =/

 

[Linoone]

Heh, I'll make it short 'cause I drank too much beer tonight and can't be bothered to write anything:
Gay people disgust me. I am not the kind of person that respects what I don't like, so I think they should be cruelly killed on sight.

That doesn't include lesbians... Lesbians are hawt, so I've nothing against them. ^___^

reread what you just posted, then replace the subject gay with your name, did you like it?, of course not, that how gays feel when they read that kind of stuff, I'm not gay, but if I were I'd be gravely offended, I understand that you don't like them, and I'm not saying you should like them, but hating people like that just because they are gay is called immaturity, and I certainly hope that post was because of the beer

 

[Freenaturearts]

Hey this reminds me, Why the heck was this alowed and yet when I made that post about my religion I was just about kicked out of pc cause everyone Closed my thread and Blocked me? Yeah I know this is random, but you guys here at pc got me good and Pissed and if anything I'm taking this right to steve, ya dont like it. Suck on a lemon...

 

[NiNGi]

ROFL.
Haha! Freenaturearts makes me rofl so freaking much! XD!!!!
Wow, I even asked for permission before posting... I'm getting too polite! =o

I am not a tolerant kind of person. If I dislike something I say it, and do something about it... I've kicked the **** out of a gay dude just because he was trying it with me... If I had a shotgun, I would have gladly spilled his brains on the wall... <3

Heh, it's a matter of opinion... you might respect them, and I might not. Not a hard concept, is it?

 

[Linoone]

ROFL.
Haha! Freenaturearts makes me rofl so freaking much! XD!!!!
Wow, I even asked for permission before posting... I'm getting too polite! =o

I am not a tolerant kind of person. If I dislike something I say it, and do something about it... I've kicked the **** out of a gay dude just because he was trying it with me... If I had a shotgun, I would have gladly spilled his brains on the wall... <3

Heh, it's a matter of opinion... you might respect them, and I might not. Not a hard concept, is it?

well, if he was trying to do something to you yeah, like with all people, its just the right of defending yourself, but from that to hating all gays and wanting to kill them...think about it, it's a massive overreaction to a single incident

 

[NiNGi]

He didn't touch me or anything... just looked at me funny. I knew he was gay because someone told me.

Heh, it's funny to see how people start flaming you as soon as you disagree with them... Freenaturethingy even added me on msn to insult me further...! That made my day. XD

 

[Ryoutarou]

Christ, does no one see the report button?

Ningi, banned, FNA, warned, thread, locked. having lots of work to do when you should be studying, priceless.