Gen V - Metagame Speculation Thread

[Ársa]

/continuing on without Shanderra discussion

I like the (non) Luvdisc Evo, whose name currently escapes me. It's bulkier than Vaporeon and gets Regeneration + Boiling Water. (Its attacking stats are terrible, but... burn rate is nice)

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah, I can definitely see Deoxys-D dropping down. Mew perhaps, and of course Garchomp and Salamence will likely see a return.

As Wobbufett gets a new ability, perhaps it could see use, similar to how before Smogon's gen 4 tier list was adopted Azumarill with Huge Power was banished to BL. Without Shadow Tag, Wobbuffet falls to NU, never to see competitive play again.

 

[Samson]

if mew makes its way back, i will cry a million tears of joy.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Ok after playing some B/W on Po i feel i can give a little insight. =P

*bulbagarden.net image removed*Stall is still usable (woot). Hard and annoying to break as ever. Bulky offense seems to be the most popular though.

*bulbagarden.net image removed* Nattorei and Shed Shell Forretress seem to be the only Spikers people use. Havent seen Skarm at all which is strange since it beats Ononokutsu into the ground with even just Drill Peck. Taunt sucks on it because it has the bulk of a wet shoe.

*bulbagarden.net image removed* Ghost/Water is common and rather annoying and is like on 1/3 of teams.

*bulbagarden.net image removed* Rest Talk Dragon Tail Gyarados and Milotic (especially the former) make cool dragon checks. Really though Calm Rest talk Milotic is amazing utility, being able to own stuff with Boiling water and PHaze is a great addition to it and it just doesn't die with Marvel scale. It also checks Zoroark and NP Luke.

*bulbagarden.net image removed*Ground/flying legendary genie is on most teams serving as a check to the dumb mole with EarthEdge U-Turn and Explosion aswell as SD.

*bulbagarden.net image removed*Jaroda is immensely annoying. +2 sp.att boost every leaf Storm frikking hurts.

*bulbagarden.net image removed*Garchomp has been...underwhelming so far, same with Ononokutsu, Shandera, Salamence and Lati@s. Darkrai is annoying though lol.

*bulbagarden.net image removed* Zoroark is ridiculous. Really, make one stupid switch and it shreds your team to bits. Though i mean making stupid switch ins is common due to its disguise. What a peen lol

*bulbagarden.net image removed*Mole is annoying and my god is it powerful. Ive also been struggling with Terakion and Rankurusu (Magic Guard and Recover = ughhh). Both are ridiculous to be quite honest. Same with Kerudio.

*bulbagarden.net image removed*Scarf Ditto is amazing. Has been my stall teams MVP.

*bulbagarden.net image removed*Scarfchomp, scarf Onono seem to be popular too.

*bulbagarden.net image removed*Genosekuto is just....ugh. Take this literally, if you dont have Blissey or Heatran you WILL lose. Its like porygon-z on crack, - nasty plot + better typing, movepool and rock polish. My Snorlax took 45% from LO Download Bug Buzz. @__@

*bulbagarden.net image removed*Kojondo is a popular lead along with the Spikers and some Magic Coaters too.

*bulbagarden.net image removed*Mischievous heart Sableye gets away with annoyingly Taunting, Recovering and Burning everything. Similarly, Victini makes me rage. >o

*bulbagarden.net image removed*Technician Breloom with Mach Punch and Bullet Seed omg does this thing hurt. >_o

*bulbagarden.net image removed* I really dont know what the heck im doing rofl. Some of the time im just switching blind into things, i really need to learn more. XD

 

[Samson]

surprised not to hear more about drought/drizzle.

 

[Ninja Caterpie]

Nothing on the chandelier?

 

[SuperiorCat]

I find it interesting that Milotic is doing considerably well.
I thought for sure that Hydration Vaporeon was going to be preferred.

And, I'm quite surprised that Skarmory isn't getting used much. .-.​

 

[Dark Azelf]

surprised not to hear more about drought/drizzle.

Amazingly im surprised too. Might be because i use Hippowdon and cancel it out but Rain and Sun seem honestly rather poopy lol

Nothing on the chandelier?

Yeah its underwhelming if you shed shell obvious targets like Bliss, skarm, forry and Nattorei. Its frail, SR weak and really cant switch into much at all lol. It tried to trap my Ghost/Water and couldnt OHKO it with Shadow Ball and i swiftly massacred it with Boiling Water. Its also one more thing that Milotic poops all over.


Breloom@Life Orb
252 Att / 252 Speed / 6 Def
Adamant Nature
Trait : Technician
- Bullet Seed (wee i have 25 BP now so if i hit 5 times i decimate you)
- Mach Punch
- Spore
- Stone Edge / SuperPower.


Bullet Seed Vs Gengar : 126% - 148.9%
Mach Punch Vs Mole : 116.9% - 138.5%
Mach Punch Vs Heatran : 83.6% - 98.5%
Bullet Seed Vs 248 / 248 impish Gyarados after Intimidate : 62.3% - 73.8%
" Vs Garchomp : 125.7% - 150.8%
Mach Punch Vs Garchomp : 40.5% - 48%
" Vs Sazandora : 93.9% - 110.4%

Just a taste of what you're dealing with here lol. :/

(bullet seed assumes it hits 5 times)

 

[Kazuhiro]

Yeah its underwhelming if you shed shell obvious targets like Bliss, skarm, forry and Nattorei. Its frail, SR weak and really cant switch into much at all lol. It tried to trap my Ghost/Water and couldnt OHKO it with Shadow Ball and i swiftly massacred it with Boiling Water. Its also one more thing that Milotic poops all over.

Lol

So I believe all that talk in the beginning about Shanderaa being OP was for nothing considering the fact that he is not as good as people expected to be after all.

Did they use him with Shadow Tag + Calm Mind + Substitute etc?

I'm actually glad he's not that good as I planned on using him and I didn't want him to be uber.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Lol

So I believe all that talk in the beginning about Shanderaa being OP was for nothing considering the fact that he is not as good as people expected to be after all.

Did they use him with Shadow Tag + Calm Mind + Substitute etc?

I'm actually glad he's not that good as I planned on using him and I didn't want him to be uber.

Yeah they use it with that or a scarf. Ive also seen strange Sub Nitro Charge sets to increase its speed.

I mean it WOULD be good without Shed Shell except im smart and put it on all my trap bait or use Snorlax over Bliss. ;D

 

[luke]

I guess its doing its job and preventing these Pokemon from having their leftovers recovery in the end. But from watching my friends battle (he uses choice specs) I have seen it do massive damage. But most of you vets know I live me some specs pokemon.

 

[shot571]

how about hihidaruma or w.e its called? I was hoping hed be a beast.

 

[Samson]

hihidaruma... man that thing is ridic just looking at its stats and movepool. way to completely outclass bellyzard, GF!

 

[Devil Flamingo]

I like the (non) Luvdisc Evo, whose name currently escapes me. It's bulkier than Vaporeon and gets Regeneration + Boiling Water. (Its attacking stats are terrible, but... burn rate is nice)

No, Boiling Water is not good on Mamanbou. Leave the water boiling to Vaporeon, Milotic, Suicune and co. Here's why:

A modest Mamanbou with 252 spA EVs and 31 EVs in spA only reaches a pathetic and worthless grand total of 196 special attack. That's so retarded it will only KO stuff like... idk, Magcargo? O_o Here's the thing, Mamanbou can't afford to run a +spA nature, let alone invest 252 EVs on a stat that will not benefit her as a bulky Water in the long run. Yes, 30% of the time you will be burning things which will make them hit you (physically) less hard, but most of the time (70%) you will be neither be burning things nor putting a dent on them.

On the other hand, she does have 75 Att (like Blissey has 75 spA), which is not great, but better than 40 spA any day. While Aqua Jet, Dive and Waterfall don't have a burning effect on the foe, Mamanbou is better off using any of those than she is using Boiling Water, because at least the latter will actually do some form of damage to stuff that is weak to Water and doesn't have good defenses (like Dugtrio or something). Personally I'm gonna give Aqua Jet a go despite its low power (Mamanbou isn't meant to be used for power anyway, so it works, imo) because it work in sync with Toxic and residual damage from entry hazards or life orb to maybe get the KO on something, plus priority is nice.

Anyways, I think people need to be thinking less about Chandelar and more about Mamanbou because she's gonna be godly in UU, you just watch:

Queen of Hearts (standard Mamanbou)

careful (+spD, -spA)
w/ Regeneration @ Leftovers

- Toxic
- Aqua Jet/Waterfall/Heal Beam/Protect/filler
- Light Screen
- Wish

My EV spread is 164/96/250 for HP/Def/SpD respectively, which results in 512/220/206 stats at level 100 (assuming there's 31 IVs in each of these stats, which I will deffo get). In other words, HO DAMN DIS THANG IS BULKY. My reasons are fairly simple, though subject to change: 512 is divisible by 16 making lefties recovery optimal, and the special defense needs to be maxed for obvious reasons but I prefer to just go up to 206 and not 207 because it looks "in sync" with 512 HP and 220 Def, plus divisible by 2 (Light Screen, durr). It doesn't make a difference either way; I just think 206 is a nice number. Anyways, this thing is great for support, especially in double and triple battles where you can pair it with two strong pogeys and have Mamanbou heal them (either with Heal Beam or Wish, if you're gonna switch stuff in) and support them with Light Screen (which is always welcome), and the occasional Toxic (now with a much welcome accuracy boost!). Regeneration is ideal for recovering residual damage and making Wishpassing easier, but Hydration can definitely be abused if you've got something to set up Rain. :3

The second moveslot is basically whatever you want; what Mamanbou absolutely must have is Light Screen and Wish in my opinion, because that's kinda the whole point of using her, XD. Who doesn't want to have an ungodly amount of HP restored to them, and a second chance to sweep KO the opposition? Nothing except Blissey, Chansey, Wailord and Wobbuffet have higher HP than her, and only Blissey and Chansey can Wishpass, but they haven't got four resistances (particularly Fire, Ice, and Water, though the Steel resistance is certainly nice when it comes to Bullet Punch and Meteor Mash) to abuse. So say what you will, but this is one gorgeous epic sunfish who can Wishpass giant Wishes of Doom and anything and everything from Chandelar to Swampert will be uber-glad to have her heal them and set up a screen that halves nasty special attacks. :3

 

[.Gamer]

DENCHURA!!!!

my favorite new pokemon even though i havent played gen 5 in like a week. bug/electric is mad cool typing and its really fast with base 108.

i really dislike how centralizing sandstorm is though :(

mole @ life orb
adamant
252 atk / 252 spe / 4 filler
sd
eq
x-scissor or brick break
rock slide

is amazing with ttar. also max/max impish hippo is pretty boss.

the water/ghost is amazing too. just saying i hate how they got rid of the resttalk TMs though, makes stall a lot more difficult

 

[Dark Azelf]

DENCHURA!!!!

my favorite new pokemon even though i havent played gen 5 in like a week. bug/electric is mad cool typing and its really fast with base 108.

i really dislike how centralizing sandstorm is though :(

mole @ life orb
adamant
252 atk / 252 spe / 4 filler
sd
eq
x-scissor or brick break
rock slide

is amazing with ttar. also max/max impish hippo is pretty boss.

the water/ghost is amazing too. just saying i hate how they got rid of the resttalk TMs though, makes stall a lot more difficult

Ive been doing pretty good without the Sleep Talk tm's with stall. It really doesn't effect old stall staples that use it anyway, like Gyarados and Cune etc and whatnot.

It would be amazing on newer pokes though. =[ Meh ill make do so w/e lol

Stalker Dragon Tail Boiling Water Milotic is god btw lol

I hate the electric genie though. Needs to gtfo.

Also i tested Wish/Roost/Dragon Tail/EQ Mence and it was surprisingly sexy lol

 

[Kazuhiro]

I hear Erufuun is a very popular lead because of her Mischievous Heart ability and Encore/Leech Seed/Substitute/U-Turn. Have you seen any?

And did you see any successful Agirudaa lead with Spikes?

 

[Cycle]

I've been looking at Arcanine for a bit now.
The new ability is terrible for it, as it doesn't grant any immunity for it. I usually run Intimidate>Flash Fire.

Arcanine@Life Orb
Jolly/Adamant
Intimidate
252 Atk, 144 Spe, 112 HP
Morning Sun
Flare Blitz
Crunch/Close Combat/Wild Bolt/Howl
Extremespeed

The thing that sets Arcanine and Ape apart is the fact that it boasts better HP, and while the defense is nothing to brag about, it is enough to tank a bit. Morning Sun lets it heal off Flare Blitz and Life Orb damage. Crunch or Close Combat is really preference, the fact that Close Combat downgrades the defense and special defense is really disappointing, but it gives it nice coverage. Crunch is really only if it gets into OU for Shandera, which it likely won't but it's a possibility. Wild Bolt is the most viable option here, letting it 2HKO Milotic. The fact that Wild Bolt has much more power and accuracy is what makes it the better choice over Thunder Fang, although the recoil is still very annoying. Howl is another option it has, letting it boost it's attack to a fairly decent amount. Extremespeed is now much better with +2 priority.
Arcanine has very low chances of getting into BL, let alone OU. However, it will very likely stay at the top of UU usage.
Intimidate is the most sensible option for the abilities. Against a physical attacker, the attack drop will almost always make the opponent switch, letting it get a free turn for howl or to heal off the SR damage.

 

[Arc]

I hear Erufuun is a very popular lead because of her Mischievous Heart ability and Encore/Leech Seed/Substitute/U-Turn. Have you seen any?

And did you see any successful Agirudaa lead with Spikes?

My god, Erufuun is a beast. Leads now need a way to counter Erufuun, or she can mess up some teams easily.

 

[Ninja Caterpie]

According to a friend who's played BW (i thought he said he wouldn't ._.), Kojonda is a beastly anti-lead. All I really want to know is whether it screws up Dual Screen Azelf much. 8D What does it usually do?

+ is erufuun lead that powerful? what happens when you taunt it? It gets one Seed/Encore/Sub up before you force it to U-turn out? ._.