4th Gen "hax" items

[a1337noob]

alot of people seem to dislike or even insist on clausing away "hax" items
such as quick-claw and bright powder.

I for one disagree with it, their main argument that it makes the game more luck based then skill, however I feel that this game is more on gambling and taking risks with prediction.
By giving your pokemon lets say, a quickclaw, 18% of the time or so it gets to go first, but 82% of the time you get no item boost, It is a gamble because you have to remove a item that gives your pokemon a boost 100% of time for that chance.
I feel that hax Items should be allowed for competive play just like moves like zap-cannon, Hax items are just an example of a high-reward/high-risk item just like moves like zap cannon

 

[wolf]

They were banned because if it activates, it can change the outcome or the battle (like Scope Lens making an OHKO, when if you never did have a Scope Lens, then you would have lost). It doesn't show how the player battled, but by luck. It is only banned in competitive battling as it involves skill instead of luck. But, it is just whatever people prefer I guess.

 

[Shadow]

They were banned because if it activates, it can change the outcome or the battle (like Scope Lens making an OHKO, when if you never did have a Scope Lens, then you would have lost). It doesn't show how the player battled, but by luck. It is only banned in competitive battling as it involves skill instead of luck. But, it is just whatever people prefer I guess.

Yet the entire game runs on a random number generator; a critical hit can do the same thing as a "hax item." Variety makes things fun. If there wasn't any luck, than it'd be a big(ger) game of rock paper scissors.

I've never agreed with the banning of such items. But then again, I play Super Smash Bros. with items on, as the matches are boring to me without them.

Snowflake has my opinion on "hax item" bans wrapped up quite nicely in one of his rants.

 

[FalconJoker]

The whole of the metagame is based on luck really, not skill.

Predictions: Though some would love to say that predicting is all skill, it's not. It's luck. Sure there are 'common' switch ins and thus your prediction would be correct, but sometimes it's not and they throw in something completely different throwing off your game. And hell, sometimes people won't even play to your predictions and just sacrifice Pokemon. It's luck, not skill.

Movesets: Again, this is something else that plays more to luck than skill. Pokemon A has these moves, while Pokemon B has these. Again there is the 'common' movesets but some people like to spice it up and play the odds throwing in odd moves that you wouldn't normally see on a certain Pokemon.

Less than 100% Moves: These moves are completely based on luck. Sure, 90% of the time you'll hit, but sometimes that 10% will come up and you could never hit the entire time you use it. It's all luck and some people would call it hax, or in lamen terms, you got lucky.

I could keep going, but the point is, the entire metagame is based more on luck so why not let people use items that are based on luck? I'll tell you why, because a few people cried foul play and said it was 'gay' or 'cheating' or whatever you want to call. Let's not forget, there are no 'official' competitive Pokemon rules and/or clauses. Smogon is just used here. That does not make them official.

Lastly, I'd like to point out I've played many matches where the aforementioned items were used and sure, it cause them to go first a couple of times, but I still won. It's perfectly conceivable to win with those items, some people just don't want to deal with off-chance items *shrugs*

 

[TERRA#493]

I'm a foe of haX-items too. I'm always searching for the reason, why people use haX-items... can they only win, when the luck is on their side? The difference is that: A critical hit is part of moves, but haX-items like Quick Claw are purely depending on luck. That shows not the truth skills of the player.

 

[cheese rox!]

Although the "Hax" items depend on luck, doesn't every attack the pokémon makes also depend on luck, because of the accuracy of each move. I don't see why people complain about them.

 

[22sa]

My Starmie lost to a Geodude before because the Geodude somehow survived two surfs with its focus band then KO'd Starmie with two Magnitude attacks.

Rofl?

 

[Captain Fabio]

My Starmie lost to a Geodude before because the Geodude somehow survived two surfs with its focus band then KO'd Starmie with two Magnitude attacks.

Rofl?

This pretty much sums up my view on them.

They just make the impossible... possible O_O

 

[Johto's Best]

I always wondered why they were banned also, but really, I don't care that much as to argue about it.

 

[§]

A lot of what I am hearing opposing hax items is that is changes the outcome of the game if it works. Here is an example scenario.

It is 2 of my Pokemon against Person X's Dragonite. Dragonite already has 1 DDance.

I have my Deoxys-S out and use Ice Beam. It lives with like 10%. It get's a second DDance.

Right now, (pretend) I am faster at this point, even though he has 2 DDances. I can kill him with another Ice Beam. Instead, his Quick Claw activates and he Dragon Claws me. Or, his Brightpowder makes me miss and he get's a 3rd DDance and Dragon Claws me.

Because of the small (15% or less) chance of that item activating, I will be swept by his Dragonite.

Here is another scenario.

I have my Porygon2 out against the same Dragonite. The score is 1-1.

He uses Outrage and I am so beast that I live with like 2%. I Zap Cannon. It hits. So I bring him down to like 45% (from 100% originally) and paralyze him. The next turn (and he is still faster), he is fully paralyzed, and Zap Cannon hits again, finishing him off. .5 x .5 x .25 is a 12.5% chance that I will hit 2 Zap Cannons and he will be FPed. That's rougly the same chance that a Quick Claw will activate.

If haxy items (high risk/high reward) items are banned, how come haxy moves aren't banned? O_O

 

[a1337noob]

If someone had very bad-luck ( I mean getting worst numbers in RNG everytime) and missing every attack that can miss, hax items or no they are going to loose

 

[§]

It's not just haxy items that change the outcome of the game. It's an Air Slash missing, a Hydro Pump hitting twice in a row, a Critical Hit on that Stone Edge, etc. If all of this hax is allowed, adding some haxy items that most people won't use shouldn't make a difference.

 

[Shem]

These items are a part of the game, if you cannot adapt to defeat one who uses them, then you are not truely good at the game.

This kind of thing is exactly why I don't battle competitively, because of these petty rules put in place when the tide gets turned by luck.

 

[Prototype Omega]

These items are a part of the game, if you cannot adapt to defeat one who uses them, then you are not truely good at the game.

This kind of thing is exactly why I don't battle competitively, because of these petty rules put in place when the tide gets turned by luck.

I have to agree with that. It is petty rules like that that makes competitive battling a little boring. I understand the sleep and evasion clauses as those kind of players are just annoying, putting an entire team to sleep or having one Pokemon be damn near impossible to hit.

But items that depend on luck, a small percentage to hit? Those should definitely be allowed. They won't ALWAYS work, and win they do, they might net you a few victories, but the odds are stacked against that player that the item might not work and you just lost a Pokemon because you relied on it to save you.

I'm pretty sure someone using 'hax' items on Pokemon will lose more often then win. Also, as a side note, I'm not entirely sure if bright powder is illegal as Smogon.com has a Froslass set using that item. *shrugs*

 

[Kudra]

One of the big differences between less than 100% accuracy moves and hax items is the fact that they can be put on any pokemon and, especially in instances of multiple consecutive activations, can change the game in a way greater than a single move. In the instance of zap cannon, it is learned by a grand total of 8 unique evolutionary lines. It is much easier to predict a zap cannon coming from one of these pokemon than it is to predict a hax item because literally any pokmon can carry a hax item. If I can predict a zap cannon, I can switch to a ground type and take luck out of the equation. If zap cannnon hits, it does it's damage, but it isn't irrecoverable damage do any decent battler. That's why there are moves like heal bell and wish.

It is true that luck does play a certain part in the world of pokemon battling, but hax items just compound the amount of luck in the game. It subjects certain aspects of the game to luck and can completely take strategy out. Take this for example: I use a bronzong and use trick room and then use explosion on an enemy salamence, which survives the hit. I take this opportunity to switch in a suckle and on the next term use power trick. Anticipating an attack on shuckle (who went first due to trick room) he is holding a focus sash. Having survived with 1 hp, he is now free to use a devastating rock slide. Having KO'd my opponent he switches out a scizor and uses bullet punch. Shuckle is no more. A priority move countered my shuckle and ended it's reign. However this strategy can be countered by setting spikes, stealth rock, or hail, all of which I can have an opportunity to counter with rapid spin or another weather effect before I try this strategy.

Here's the same type of situation: One of my pokemon is KO'd by an opposing Salamence. I switch out to my shuckle, which immidiately takes half damage from both three layer of spikes and stealth rocks. Salamence attacks with a dragon claw, and my shuckle survives and uses power trick.
This is where hax comes in, so pay attention. Salamence uses another dragon claw, and my focus band activates and I survive and use rock slide for the KO. Then the focus band activates again on my opponent's next attack and I get another free KO.
Where's the strategy in that? It's just flat out luck, which has no counters. Am I supposed to bring a pokemon with knock off to every battle just to counter any possible hax items?