How Much Are We Going To Do In Alola?

[Seeka]

Well, we don't know everything about Alola yet. For all we know there could be further connections to Alola and Kalos...


Not the only one, I liked XY as well. The main reason I wanna go back to it is so we can finish off Zygarde's story properly.

What story? It was a random legendary thrown into the game. All it does is prove that gamefreak may never do a third game rerelease like emerald or yellow or platinum again.

Though I understand everyone wants a story for it, I think it could be left alone, honestly. If Zygarde awkens the world is in some true ass trouble.

Though now that i think of it, a true apocalypse in the pokemon world would be great.

 

[Bigdog]

Wouldn't it be kind of weird to have two new regions in one game, though?

It would be, but who says it wouldn't be a part of Kalos? Colonies are a part of their country, which means it would be another part of Kalos we haven't seen yet.

But no one would think we'd:
-Have Alolan forms. Basically Delta Species.
-There would be no gym system in place.
-Pokemon variations based on islands.
-Z Moves.
-Full 3D landscape. I wasn't expecting this at least.

I'm just saying that they've been bucking and changing things to unexpected ways, and doing another twist to the second region formula from Gold and Silver, since X/Y are a homage to RBGY, might be possible. I wonder if this means we'll get Alolan Johto starters, then ,at the beginning? This is just what I think may happen, and I'll probably be wrong. But it would be interesting.

 

[clbgolden]

Also, regarding the OP, the map may be big, but don't forget there weren't even enough cities for a proper gym system, and people were saying how short the routes were.

The routes aren't gonna be short in-game, they're always illustrated poorly (size wise) on the hand-drawn map.

Also, I'm pretty certain there are at least eight gym like places that could've worked.

What story? It was a random legendary thrown into the game. All it does is prove that gamefreak may never do a third game rerelease like emerald or yellow or platinum again.

Though I understand everyone wants a story for it, I think it could be left alone, honestly. If Zygarde awkens the world is in some true ass trouble.

Though now that i think of it, a true apocalypse in the pokemon world would be great.

Zygarde was technically awakened in XY but the world is fine. :P

Also, as I said before, it was already said at E3 that we'd get a story for Zygarde (in a "special way").

 

[Altairis]

I think the length depends on how they're going to handle it. They might have us just be going to specific spots and everything else is just for us to explore on our own time. Like remember how in ORAS we had some huge routes to traverse but several times they "teleported" us (or at least gave us the option to automatically go there)? I mean, it looks promising, but still.

 

[Ducolamia]

I think the length depends on how they're going to handle it. They might have us just be going to specific spots and everything else is just for us to explore on our own time. Like remember how in ORAS we had some huge routes to traverse but several times they "teleported" us (or at least gave us the option to automatically go there)? I mean, it looks promising, but still.

That could be possible too. With the addition of Pokeride, the region of Alola could shrink by quite a bit. Hopefully though we get some time to immerse ourselves into the region before we randomly get transported to another place and time.

 

[Ducolamia]

Sorry for double posting, but this just occurred to me after making this thread.

It has been stated before that the islands are crudely drawn for the sake of the world map, so that begs the question... Do you think there any additional places that Game Freak could be hiding from us for the sake of the game? And what I mean by that is locations you wouldn't be able to clearly see on the surface?

I'm surprised this just occurred to me while looking at the map now XD.

 

[Seeka]

The routes aren't gonna be short in-game, they're always illustrated poorly (size wise) on the hand-drawn map.

Also, I'm pretty certain there are at least eight gym like places that could've worked.


Zygarde was technically awakened in XY but the world is fine. :P

Also, as I said before, it was already said at E3 that we'd get a story for Zygarde (in a "special way").

Oh really they said it at E3?

Though I'm not up to date on E3. Despite being a gamer and wanting to get into games, I never am truly excited about E3. I think i have to be there.

However they could go back on their word. But if they do use him, I hope it is in Alola. I don't wanna revisit Kalos in some weird way. Like if this was Italy or some other european based region, I'd see a point, but Alola is Hawaii.

unless they make a story that makes sense, that Zygarde was transplanted from Alola to Kalos, which means this game may come BEFORE Kalos. Is there an official timeline anywhere?

 

[clbgolden]

Again, while Zygarde's story may be finished in Alola, this doesn't prove anything about traveling back to Kalos. I'd really like an explanation from Game Freak on how they suddenly decided to make travel to a past region possible for no other reason other than to tie up loose ends that were, for the most part (and even sloppily) tied in the first place. There's no logical reason why you'd travel to Kalos, because there's nothing the player can do in Kalos.

While you had Team Rocket in Gen I and II and they had bearing on the plot (as already mentioned), there's pretty much no actual relation (yet, that we've seen, but I doubt we'll see any) between Alola and Kalos.

It could be finished in Alola, but once again it's a Kalos Pokémon (who's also part of the main Kalos trio legends), so its story and origin acually being in Alola would be weird.

There are already other Alola ties to Kalos, such as the "flower" hint from last Worlds, and Magearna who's also supposedly from Kalos, yet obtainable in gen 7. I think going back to Kalos for story reasons is a far more better reason than going back to Kanto just because Kanto and Johto were nearby. Heck, did we even know Rocket was causing trouble back in Kanto until we got there?

Oh really they said it at E3?

Though I'm not up to date on E3. Despite being a gamer and wanting to get into games, I never am truly excited about E3. I think i have to be there.

However they could go back on their word. But if they do use him, I hope it is in Alola. I don't wanna revisit Kalos in some weird way. Like if this was Italy or some other european based region, I'd see a point, but Alola is Hawaii.

unless they make a story that makes sense, that Zygarde was transplanted from Alola to Kalos, which means this game may come BEFORE Kalos. Is there an official timeline anywhere?

Don't really see how they can go back on their word, the game's story was almost certainly completed by then.

As for an official timeline... I think there is one, but probably doesn't include Sun and Moon yet.

 

[clbgolden]

I don't see weirdness as preventing Game Freak from finishing Zygarde's story in another region.



...After doing some research on this "flower" hint...that has nothing to do whatsoever with Kalos as a region. With Floette, maybe? And I guess hinting towards the development of Sun and Moon as a whole, maybe? I don't see what the flower hint has anything to do with any connections otherwise.

And what story reasons would be relevant enough to return to Kalos for? I feel like you're cherrypicking reasons why two completely different regions with two completely different cultures based on two completely different geographical locations would somehow be travelable, in which case, again, I see as highly unlikely, given that they might as well have provided the option to travel to past regions every single generation.

It's weird because if they wanted to put Zygarde's story in Alola then they should've just waited to make it an Alolan Pokémon, not Kalos.

As for the flower thing, did you forget that the Ultimate Weapon is literally based off a flower? I don't see how its "cherrypicking" to point out ties that seem fairly obvious (minus maybe the flower thing, as that's not really a big tie).

And there wasn't really any reason to travel to regions in the past because in past games there wasn't a legend from a previous region who's said to have a role in the next game, among other things.

 

[clbgolden]

Again, is it impossible for a Pokemon to serve more than one role? I think this is a rather creative route for Game Freak to go in; not only does Zygarde have a role in balancing out Xerneas and Yveltal, it can also play some sort of pivotal role in Alola! It may be out-of-the-ordinary, but hardly unwelcoming, in my eyes. At least, assuming that it does get some sort of role and not shoved to the wayside, that it gets one, and that it isn't forgottne about?



I was talking specifically about the flower itself. What does the Ultimate Weapon have to do with Alola? What does any of what Kalos has have to do with Alola? I say it's cherrypicking because none of what you've argued so far actually says beyond a doubt that we're able to travel between Kalos and Alola. Could there be references to Alola? Yeah, I can see that happening maybe (this typically doesn't happen though, to my knowledge, unless we're talking about past characters appearing, which, again, going from the culture, seems rather unlikely).



The same way there isn't any reason to travel to Kalos because of a Pokemon that originally came from there possibly serving a bigger purpose in another region.

clbgolden, before this discussion gets more circular than it is, I'd like to know exactly what you think we can actually do in Kalos. Why do you think we should return to Kalos? What's the benefit from returning back to a region in whcih we've essentially done everything that needs to be done bar clearing up Zygarde's story, which is most likely going to be cleared up in Alola, anyway?

The very reason why I'm so skeptical about this is that we don't travel to past regions for ****s and giggles. Having a past legendary Pokemon show up in another region serving a bigger role, to me, is not evidence enough that we're actually going to be able to travel back to another region and actually do anything there. How do we know that Zygarde won't move from Kalos to Alola, and just reside in a random cave in Alola once all is said and done?

As of right now, there are far too many unknowns to say for certain that we will travel back to any past region at all, and even if we did (like in Gen I and II), that region was particularly relevant to our journey. I don't see how Kalos is going to have ties to the Alolan culture, which seems far too distant from the big, bustling, city life that is Kalos.

It's not impossible, but it really makes no sense why they'd introduce a legendary in Kalos and then just put it on the back burner, and then go "Oh yeah! It's role is larger in Alola. Guess we should've waited to introduce it. Oops!" If it's role is larger in Alola, it should've been introduced in Alola.

The Ultimate Weapon thing comes from the Worlds quote of the future of the Pokémon games including flowers. And though this is a bit off-topic, I think Alola makes sense to have past characters because of how much of a tourist place Hawaii is in real-life.

And the Zygarde tie, even though it's just one tie, is still something, while other region's ties to others are pretty weak to nonexistent.

And why I want to go back to Kalos is so we can have a proper story for Zygarde, and some of XY's other things in general. Just to make some excuse saying "Oh, Zygarde moved to Alola!" sounds so, SO lazy. It was said that we'd get Zygarde's and Kalos' story finished off in a unique way, and to just say it went to Alola because insert reason here and then give us a story for him in a region that's not even his original residence is just "smeh".

And we still had no reason to go back to Kanto in GSC/HGSS, except for, err, "****s and giggles". Just because it was nearby isn't an any better reason.

 

[MegaKuriboh]

Honestly, I feel like Alola's Zygarde and Kalo's Zygarde are two different mons, considering they both have different abilities, so it could make sense if the Zygarde story is wrapped up in Alola.

 

[Ducolamia]

Honestly, I feel like Alola's Zygarde and Kalo's Zygarde are two different mons, considering they both have different abilities, so it could make sense if the Zygarde story is wrapped up in Alola.

Alolan Zygarde? Is that even possible at this point?


But considering what they did to Ninetails anything goes I guess

 

[MegaKuriboh]

Alolan Zygarde? Is that even possible at this point?


But considering what they did to Ninetails anything goes I guess

I meant as in there's more than one Zygarde, not necessarily different forms, like how there's only one of each of most legendaries in Pokemon lore, for the most part (not counting the ORAS portals and other things like that), but there's more than one singular Zygarde in the world.

 

[clbgolden]

I disagree. You acknowledge that it's not impossible for it to serve more than one role, but yet you say it doesn't make sense, anyway? If Zygarde's story is supposed to encompass Alola, then why is it somehow wrong that it plays a bigger role in Alola to explain that story than in Kalos? What if there wasn't much to explain in Kalos, which was why it wasn't given that much backstory to begin with?



Ehhhh. We can go back and forth on this with no real agreement whatsoever. It's possible that past characters may make a return in a Battle Resort/Battle Frontier-esque area (assuming Alola has something equivalent to this), but we'll see. It just seems far too distant for any past characters to make a return. France is a pretty popular tourist destination, but you don't see too many (if any?) past characters make any cameos there.



But it's not really evidence enough to say we'll travel back there. Just because it's a Kalos Pokemon doesn't really mean anything. For all intents and purposes as things seem to be, it has a role in Alola, either to protect the general ecosystem in Alola or for some other role, for better or worse.



What proper story for Zygarde? Why does Zygarde's story have to take place in Kalos at all? IMO, your reasoning is pretty weak that just because it's a Kalos Pokemon means everything regarding it has to take place in Kalos. It could very well be that it was introduced in Kalos first as a means of serving as a medium between Xerneas and Yveltal, but then serve as another role or prominent figure in Alola. Would you agree or disagree with this assessment? I think it's fairly unnecessary to travel to a past region for the sake of tying up loose ends when you can tie up those loose ends in Alola.

As I said, I am heavily doubting that Alola is going to be X2 and Y2, no matter how much some may wish it to be. It is not supposed to serve as some sort of sequel, or else we would've gotten a sequel instead of a different game in a different generation altogether.



Allow me to bold and re-size prior explanations, because you seemed to either have missed it or skimmed over it:





Therefore, there was reason enough for Johto and Kanto to be related to each other beyond the actual geography. I also mentioned that culturally, they're not too different anyway, which made even more sense.

I'm honestly just confused on how there's supposed to be some relation between regions that are fundamentally and completely different to one another. I understand you're probably not satisfied with the ending of X/Y, but my perspective is to let it be; if the game gives you the impression that it's unfinished, or if it leaves you off of a cliffhanger of some sort, then that's a fault of the game itself. I'd personally rather focus on Alola being Alola than Alola fixing whatever was wrong with Kalos. Game Freak had the opportunity to do that by releasing a sequel or a third game to X/Y (which, honestly, might not even made the games better, in my opinion), and they chose not to.

There's a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense in the world (and Pokémon), but that doesn't make it impossible, right? You can say something doesn't make sense while still expecting it to be possible.

If Zygarde doesn't have a backstory in Kalos, then why introduce it in Kalos? Its role in Xerneas' and Yveltal's story is currently nonexistent, so it doesn't make sense to introduce it as a "medium" if it wouldn't do anything in their story thus far. And Sun and Moon being an "X2Y2" really isn't that much of a wish, as I said before it was said that they're gonna tie in XY's story in a unique way.

As for the Kanto Johto thing, aside from the region being a little relevant in our story, there was no reason we HAD to go there. It's not like Mewtwo was gonna destroy Kanto, or we knew that TR was causing trouble there, so we HAD to go there. We just went there for the sake of going there. Sure, the reasoning you said explains how the regions are connected, but that still doesn't explain why we HAD to go Kanto.

It's not that I'm extremely dissatisfied with XY's ending (heck, it's one my favorite games), but there are some cliffhangers that would be nice to be explained.

 

[Psychotichaos7]

I think that really we can't say "there isn't a reason to do this" at this stage because we don't know the story, how do you know it won't be a convincing enough reason?

I really enjoyed most of XY and while the ending did let me down I still thought highly of it. I think the main reason a lot of people want multiple regions in one game is because it allows you to continue your journey, i loved going back to kanto from Johto for nothing more than catching and training more!

 

[Psychotichaos7]

You Don't know the story so how can you possibly say there is no reason at all????????

 

[clbgolden]

What..? No idea what you're talking about, here.



Because, again, it serves as a medium between Xerneas and Yveltal. That was literally its purpose. If you're not happy with that, with all due respect, I'm sure you can send a nice, scathing letter to Game Freak about it, but it is what it is. It was literally put in X/Y as symbolism, and it accomplished as much, as vague as it was.

And as I said, they can make references to X/Y in Alola, but I doubt we're going to visit Kalos, as that's completely unnecessary to actually finish Kalos' story.





There's no reason we HAVE to go to Kalos whatsoever to tie up these loose ends, so why are you arguing that we should? As I mentioned, the plot of Gen I and Gen II was intertwined, so yes, you had to go to both, because they're related to each other for the reasons I already mentioned above.



I'm sure they can be explained without actually having to travel there, assuming that any references get made at all.

Again, I'd rather Game Freak focus on making Alola unique and enjoyable, than focus on making this generation all about fixing up what was wrong with Kalos. If they wanted to do as much, they would've either released a sequel or a third game. This in itself makes me highly skeptical that they're barely going to touch Kalos in these games besides a few references in the plot perhaps.

For the first part, I was referring to when you said "You acknowledge that it's not impossible for it to serve more than one role, but yet you say it doesn't make sense, anyway?"

But anyways, we don't even know if that was Zygarde's full purpose. Sure, we know it has a connection to Xerneas and Yveltal, but it was never actually said what it's whole story is (but we're already gonna presumably get the full story here anyways). I'm not gonna write a letter to GameFreak because of this, that's ridiculous, there's no reason to be sarcastic.

And wouldn't it be necessary to go the region to finish said region's story, instead of shoving everything in Alola?

Back to the Kanto Johto thing, that's the thing, there was no reason we had to go back to Kanto, so I don't see we have to have some big, giant reason to go back to Kalos. Kanto and Johto weren't even THAT intertwined, they have completely different legendaries, backstory, etc. The only things they really share is the evil team (which could very well happen in Sun and Moon) and that they're next to each other, but we didn't even know TR was doing stuff in Kanto until we got there, so it had no impact in going back there, and being nearby still isn't a good reason, by that logic I should go to my neighbor's house everyday because we live next to each other.

I doubt Kalos would have a big impact on Alola's main plot, it'd still have its own unique stuff. Kalos could probably just be post-game. And with the stuff you're suggesting, it sounds like Kalos' stuff would be in Alola regardless.

 

[Terpy]

I just want to say I completely agree with Colours. I am almost offended by the lack of acknowledgment to the very clear reasons why the Johto region was always intended to be an extension of the Kanto region. They NEEDED to connect. This was essentially an expansion!

Looking at Gen. 6 and Gen. 7, the two do not NEED to connect. They actually would not benefit from connecting as much as the first two generations did. Zygarde can protect from wherever really, and his story can be isolated and developed on more from wherever as well.

 

[clbgolden]

Do you know any reason that we should????????????? Cause I sure as hell never claimed to know anything. In my opinion, I said there's no reason to. Please come up with a differing opinion instead of spewing out nonsense, thanks, or don't bother.



Exactly, in which you said it doesn't make sense regardless, which left me confused...?



I was only being half-sarcastic, but I'm being quite serious in another aspect: it seems that you refuse to acknowledge that what you saw in X/Y was quite frankly its purpose (to sit there and act as a medium between life and death, aka Xerneas and Yveltal) and you think there's more that needs to be explained in that front? It's possible that more about its Kalos background can be explained in Alola, and as such, there's no need to travel to Kalos for that.



Again. Sun & Moon is not X2 and Y2. Otherwise Game Freak would've released the such. I don't see why you're so intent on feeling like these games are makeshift sequels because they appear to be FAR from it.



Ok with all due respect, that metaphor is dumb, and I already said Kanto/Johto were similar culturally as well as had very similar plotlines, etc, which is why they were intertwined in the first place, so yes, we had to go back to Kanto for those reasons. Again, just in case you've completely ignored my points here, allow me to reiterate them for you:

• Kanto/Johto are similar culturally, they are based on two cities in Japan, and thus it wouldn't be outlandish to have one connected to the other.
• Kanto/Johto are locked geographically. Whether or not you accept this as explanation enough (it seems that you don't, but that doesn't dismiss this reasoning) is irrelevant, because it makes FAR more sense to travel to a very similar neighboring region via a passageway than it does to hop on a boat or fly to a COMPLETELY different region that has nothing to do with the region you're on besides one Pokemon (Alola/Kalos)
• Even bulbapedia explains this as reasoning. Allow me to directly quote:
  
  
  

I like how you didn't properly answer one of my main questions to you: What do you expect that the player can physically do that requires them to actually travel to an entirely different region that you absolutely cannot do, whatsoever in the region that the player is already in? You said the following:



The first part does not require the player to physically move to Kalos in the slightest. The second part would require Sun & Moon to be X2 and Y2, which, again, as I stated, I'm highly doubting that this game is going down that route. What is X/Y's other things? Fixing whatever was wrong with X/Y in the first place? Game Freak should've released a third game or a sequel in that scenario, not a whole different game, based on a completely different area, with a completely different culture, for no real reason whatsoever that would strongly justify the player actually physically moving there and doing much of anything.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense, but that still doesn't make it impossible. Am I missing something here?

But anyways, Kalos' background can be explained in Alola, but why? Wouldn't it make more sense to explain Kalos' background in, well, Kalos? Also, now you're saying that Kalos' background can be explained in Alola, but then later in this post keep saying that these games aren't meant to be X2Y2. Which one is it?

You're saying the reason we went back to Kanto is because it was nearby and they're similar culturally (even though they're not that much, sure they are in the real world, but I'm sure if you told someone in Kanto about one of Johto legends like Ho-oh they wouldn't know anything about it), but is that really a justifying reason? It's not like you were needed there for anything important. Here you could go back concerning Zygarde troubles, which I think is a far more better reason than just going back because you're "nearby".

And no, not to fix XY's problems, but to get answers on some cliffhangers/things that were planned (AZ's Floette, Azoth Kingdom, Zygarde's connection, etc) that we never got solved. A third game/sequel would've solved things, but as I have said NUMEROUS times GF wants to tie in Kalos' story in unique way. You really can't say Kalos and Alola have no connections until we see more things.

 

[clbgolden]

1. I have no idea what you're getting at. Are we at the same page here? It might not make sense to you, but a Pokemon that serves one purpose in one region in another purpose in another region makes sense to me.



No, it's precisely not meant to be X2 and Y2. You said specifically, and I quote:



2. A proper story for Zygarde can be done in Alola, which would not make it X2 and Y2, because it would have nothing to do with Kalos as a region at all, merely Zygarde and its role and relation to Alola.

I mean, when you think about it, isn't there a reason why Game Freak didn't develop a third game in the first place? Essentially, all third games (and sequels, in the case of B2W2) are, in their entirety, are just expansions of their original versions and going in-depth about the third legendary. In this case, what if the third legendary's story doesn't entirely take place in Kalos? What if it takes place in Alola, instead? Yeah, it's introduced in Kalos first because it has a small, but important role to fulfill symbolically with Kalos, but it can have another important role in Alola, too. I've explained this already, I'm not sure what's hard to miss.




3. "Zygarde troubles" is not a reason for the player to physically travel all the way to Kalos if Zygarde is already in Alola. What kind of Zygarde troubles are you imagining that would require the player to travel half-way across the globe for?




4. Aka solving X/Y's problems, because those were exactly the cliffhangers that most people were upset over, and that would turn Sun & Moon more or less into X2 and Y2. Like I said, I expect references to be made probably in regards to Az and his Floette, but nowhere near in-depth. I don't see what AZ has to do with Alola, can you tell me what connection he might possibly have other than a vague flower hint from Worlds? What does the Ultimate Weapon have to do with Alola? How do you tie this all together?



5. And as I said numerous times, there is nothing so far to indicate any sort of connection between Alola and Kalos beyond one Pokemon, and that may indicate no actual connection at all. Did I say it was impossible? No. I said it was highly unlikely. Nothing is out of the question considering Game Freak does have the tendency to throw curveballs here and there, but I cannot imagine a scenario where we would have to actually physically travel to a past region for anything that we cannot do in the present region. For all you know, they can just make vague references to Kalos in Alola and call that "tying in Kalos' story in a unique way".

By the way, tying in Kalos' story =/= tying in Kalos itself. Important distinction to make.

I'm gonna start numbering things to keep better track of the discussion:

1. I honestly think it doesn't make much sense, especially if its role is larger in Alola, but we should just agree to disagree on this one.

2. Wouldn't that still kind of count as making it like an X2Y2, though? Zygarde's story probably includes Xerneas/Yveltal so it'd still kind of feel like a Kalos "sequel" to me. Even when you put its story in Alola, it will still have plenty of Kalos ties.

3. Maybe you have to go there to get the other Zygarde Cores that aren't in Alola? I think that'd work, but it's not my job to decide how it could go.

4. Well, I guess you could call them XY's "problems", but that's a kind of negative way to put it. :p

As for other connections, there's the fact that Magearna is essentially a mini Ultimate Weapon, and we still don't have access to AZ's Floette/Light of Ruin. I'm not sure how it could all tie together, but I'm sure GF can make it work.

5. Yes, "tying in Kalos' story =/= tying in Kalos itself", but it's probably the best way to tie it in, wouldn't you think?

There are other inidications to Alola/Kalos ties, like the flower thing and Magearna, but I guess there aren't TOO many currently. Maybe we should drop this topic now and get back to it when we get more info?