Greenlit: How to battle with Ludicolo

[ddrox13]

Ok, the Quagsire article is getting lost and I've been spamming Ludicolo lately. So I want to switch up the order and do Ludicolo now. Because the Mirror B theme.

Sets included:
All Tiers SwiftSpecs Kill Set
VGC '16 Assault Vest (freaking amazing btw)
Slightly trolly Rain Dish/Lefties/GigaDrain/Leech Seed shenanigans set

Reasons to use over other Swim users:
Doesn't take your Mega slot (glares at Swampy)
Gets Fake Out (VGC). In Rain, it has a faster Fake Out than Mega Kanghaskhan, which is SUPER important
Isn't a Dragon type (fairies exist)
Is half Grass type (pesky M-Manectrics...)

Cons (in no given order):
Talon is an auto-loss if you let it switch in
Still gets 2HKOed by Modest Xern
Needs Rain to function at all, not great at getting it's own Rain up
Doesn't like Desolate Land's existence
Doesn't like Delta Stream's existence
Is a Special Attacker, therefore gets rekt by Chansey

Comparables:
M-Swampert
Kingdra
M-Swampert
Chlorophyll users I guess?
M-Swampert
Kingdra

Partners:
Obligatory - Politoed in singles, POgre in VGC
Something that doesn't auto-lost to Talon

 

[bobandbill]

Hum, having played VGC last year anyway (and may eventually try this year as well), Ludicolo is something I know about using. :V

Multiple sets needs some thought within the same article with regards to structure, particularly if they are for different tiers/formats.

If we're talking trolling set, in doubles if you are prepared to just annoy rather than win having a partner with protect and using Teeter Dance is immense fun. =)

 

[ddrox13]

Bump AGAIN, I feel like my threads are getting ignored :(

 

[Anti]

i'm a bit skeptical of this poke in ou. it's only good on rain, where it faces competition as a swift swimmer from kingdra, kabutops, swampert-mega, omastar, and seismitoad i guess. it seems like ludicolo's major niche as a rain sweeper is that waters can't switch into it, but if it runs specs, it is really punishing itself locking itself into giga drain. it seems pretty inferior to kingdra, which can power past waters with specs scad/hydro pump, but it's certainly conceivable that it's usable. i would be curious to see a few replays of ludicolo rain. it could certainly work--this poke aint druddigon--but i want to see it in action.

as for the "annoyer" set, that seems like a complete waste of space on even the most hipster rain, so i wouldn't include that.

(i know absolutely nothing about vgc. can't comment on it.)

 

[ddrox13]

So the VGC set I stole from Nugget Bridge and switched around some EVs and Natures. It's good. TLDR it can tank a Timid Xerneas +2 Moonblast and is stupid-fast in Rain, which Kyogre provides well. Even if it doesn't win the weather war, it can tank a 150bp PDon Eruption in Sun. Oh, and it has Fake Out and this is doubles. Icy Wind provides important speed control. Also walls enemy Kyogre and avoids the OHKO from MMence's Aerialate Hyper Voice, while getting an OHKO on PDon in rain (i.e. Groudon invested in Speed or on a turn where Kyo is switching in). I do need to rework the EVs again tho

+2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Assault Vest Ludicolo: 130-154 (69.5 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and almost more importantly...
+2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Assault Vest Ludicolo: 82-97 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO
Meaning there has to be a turn with Xern not attacking Kyogre

Ludicolo has a Grass type to it's advantage as Anti said (Grass/Water/Ice is near-perfect neutral). It does get a ton of competition from the other SS users, and I can't say it's the best one. I CAN say that it functions differently from the other users. Kabutops is physical and has no coverage. Swampert takes up your Mega slot. Omastar would prefer to spam Shell Smash than abusing SS. Don't get me started on Seismatoad.

Kingdra is the obvious outlier here. The only stats Ludicolo has on it are HP and SpDef (allowing avoidance of many close KOes on the VGC set). Ludicolo over King is a very tough sell in Singles, but it does help with some things Kingy is walled by. Focus Miss hits Ferrothorn, and is a luxury that Kingdra doesn't have. Grass moves deal with Azumarill to an extent, which King is again walled by. It's singles use is really in UU, it just deals with the meta better.

Honestly, the real draw for me is the VGC set, especially with perma-weather being a thing and all the Xerneas about to murder anything that even resembles a Dragon (not that Ludicolo is all that much better in the 1v1, it just stalls X so that Kyogre can 2HKO). I'll probably cut it down to just that set.

 

[bobandbill]

Agreed that replays would be neat to include (even if just for the VGC one). Also agreed that the trolling one probably isn't as useful.

So the VGC set I stole from Nugget Bridge and switched around some EVs and Natures. It's good. TLDR it can tank a Timid Xerneas +2 Moonblast and is stupid-fast in Rain, which Kyogre provides well. Even if it doesn't win the weather war, it can tank a 150bp PDon Eruption in Sun. Oh, and it has Fake Out and this is doubles. Icy Wind provides important speed control. Also walls enemy Kyogre and avoids the OHKO from MMence's Aerialate Hyper Voice, while getting a surprise OHKO on PDon in rain (i.e. Groudon invested in Speed or on a turn where Kyo is switching in).

Curiously, how often does PDon use Eruption?

Honestly, the real draw for me is the VGC set, especially with perma-weather being a thing and all the Xerneas about to murder anything that even resembles a Dragon (not that Ludicolo is all that much better in the 1v1, it just stalls X so that Kyogre can 2HKO). I'll probably cut it down to just that set.

I'm fine with that. In case you do go with multiple sets, in the staff section we had this idea for layout for multiple sets within the same article (which is useful to have even if you don't do it here; other articles down the line may do so). Thoughts?

Intro

Overview (which the overview would usually include something about points of comparison with other similar Pokemon, or maybe if they want to make this in a seperate paragraph that coud be fine)

[Set #1]

Format: (OU, Ubers, UU, etc)

Pokemon Name Here @ Item
Ability:
EVs:
Nature:
- [Move 1]
- [Move 2]
- [Move 3]
- [Move 4]

Explanation of moves
Usage Explanation (or generally how to use it within the tier)
Team-mates
Pros and cons
Points of comparison
Conclusion

[Set #2]
*repeat above*

 

[ddrox13]

Agreed that replays would be neat to include (even if just for the VGC one). Also agreed that the trolling one probably isn't as useful.
Curiously, how often does PDon use Eruption?
I'm fine with that. In case you do go with multiple sets, in the staff section we had this idea for layout for multiple sets within the same article (which is useful to have even if you don't do it here; other articles down the line may do so). Thoughts?

Certainly going to include replays

Eruption is used 47.5% of the time, according to the PGL usage stats. 3rd most used move on The Don. A combined 22% of The Don either Jolly or Modest, and another 20% run Brave (which allows for Special move spamming too). FYI, I will refer to PDon as The Don for the duration of the article. I'll refrain from calling POgre Shrek however.

That's about the plan I had for this if I went/go with multiple.

 

[bobandbill]

What's the plan with the number of sets? I personally feel daily staff can discuss approving if it's just the VGC set, but if there's more then I'd like to see a touch more said on said other set here first before we do that.

 

[ddrox13]

What's the plan with the number of sets? I personally feel daily staff can discuss approving if it's just the VGC set, but if there's more then I'd like to see a touch more said on said other set here first before we do that.

Going with just VGC for now

 

[bobandbill]

Article is greenlit! Will start the thread for you in the writing section like last time. =)