I'd always support my country, whether it was right or wrong.

[Silais]

How can I love my country or support my country when the government goes to great lengths to go against the people's beliefs simply because it is more profitable for them? I have lost much of my respect for the United States.

I'm sure the NSA will target me now.

 

[LilyAnn]

I don't like my country. At all. I swear the government is working on taking away our rights. People get arrested here for having manga that has scenes where older people get with kids. Like really. Censorship much. They throw us in jail for EVERYTHING! It's a business to them! Why would I be proud of a country that is fat, lazy stupid, racist, and spies on everyone? They also start really stupid wars that waste our money and resources.

I've been thinking of getting a passport and going to Canada.

 

[Rezilia]

c) Complain a lot on an individual level, which does nothing but cause you anguish.

The other two require money, which I don't have =.=;

--

World Citizenship is simply a declaration that you're a citizen of the world itself. Most world citizens want to receive International IDs. This does two things:

1) It gives you the option to not declare any primary or secondary nations (and the option TO do so), while still allowing full or secondary access to the nations that accept the International ID. So, it's like an upgraded passport that gives you a bit more rights than that of a tourist. This ID can keep you from being seen as an enemy by nations against the one you were born into, if you don't select primary or secondary nations.

2) It registers your identity in the servers of all nations that accept the ID. While this may seem dangerous to some, a lawful person shouldn't have any problems. Rather, it allows the person better ability to move throughout the world and use various services. In addition, the world citizen will be judged first off by the law of the nation they did a crime in OR by the international organization which granted them their ID. They will also have some kind of locator on their person which can be detected by satellite, so that they can be retrieved if it seems like they're in some sort of trouble.

Lastly, world citizens generally owe deed to the international organization that made their IDs - this means they'll be able to do things in the name of said organizations, like expeditions and peace-keeping, as they'll be seen as representatives.

 

[MKGirlism]

Why would I be proud of a country that is fat, lazy stupid, racist, and spies on everyone?

Do you know, that everything you've just listed, happens in all rich countries?
Fat people, look at half Europe, and especially Italy. Every country has multiple overweight people, because they can usually afford Fast Food, and what not.

Lazy stupid people, I'm not sure if it's supposed to have a Comma between "lazy" and "stupid" or not, but I guess it has.
Lazy people is a common issue in all of the world, except for Asia.
Stupid people can be found globally, you shouldn't take much effort to find one.

Racist people, or better said, Racism, is much worse in East-Europe, Middle-East, and Asia, than it is in America.
Don't think you'll be safe in, let's say, Morocco, you'll actually be even more bullied there, if you're not a Muslim.
In East-Europe, you'll get openly discriminated by ever single person (including their governments), if you're not white.

Spies on everyone, this problem is what Americans cause globally.
Here in Europe, a couple of countries, and especially Germany and France, lost their trust towards America, because they spy on residents of this continent too.
I predict war, and it's all NSA's fault.

I don't like my country. At all. I swear the government is working on taking away our rights. People get arrested here for having manga that has scenes where older people get with kids. Like really. Censorship much. They throw us in jail for EVERYTHING! It's a business to them! Why would I be proud of a country that is fat, lazy stupid, racist, and spies on everyone? They also start really stupid wars that waste our money and resources.

I've been thinking of getting a passport and going to Canada.

Well, the jails in The Netherlands and Belgium seem to be very comfy, they have really nice beds, they have an own kitchen filled with good food available for all prisoners, and a nice restaurant with a Menu you can choose from.
To add to it all, all this stuff, plus life, is completely free of charge, as long as you're in prison, and you can even earn some extra cash, by working in jail.

I'm all serious about this, I know a few people in person who were in prison for some time.

 

[Star-Lord]

Do you know, that everything you've just listed, happens in all rich countries?
Fat people, look at half Europe, and especially Italy. Every country has multiple overweight people, because they can usually afford Fast Food, and what not.

Have you spent any sort of prolonged time in the United States though? I've done my fair bit of travelling around Europe (I'm Canadian) and I can easily say that the portion control in that continent is a lot smarter than North America, and there are far less obese people than in Canada/US. I mean fat people exist everywhere but it wasn't as much of a widespread thing over there in my travels across numerous countries as much as it is here. :/

 

[MKGirlism]

Have you spent any sort of prolonged time in the United States though? I've done my fair bit of travelling around Europe (I'm Canadian) and I can easily say that the portion control in that continent is a lot smarter than North America, and there are far less obese people than in Canada/US. I mean fat people exist everywhere but it wasn't as much of a widespread thing over there in my travels across numerous countries as much as it is here. :/

I didn't say anything about the amount of people, all I was talking about, was the existence of these kind of people, amount doesn't matter (because I know North-America has most fat people by far).

But to answer your question, no, I've never been in the United States (North-America (and Antarctica) is/are the only continent(s) I've never been to).

 

[Silais]

Would you like to move to another country then? I hear Canada is nice :) I bet you'll say no though. Because even if you hate the government you still love America for its people and culture, right? As somebody else said take some foreign travel and hopefully you'll learn that you still appreciate your country, despite its many, many faults :D

If you're disillusioned with your country I see you as having 3 options:
a) Try to live there the best you can by rejecting mainstream society and sticking to like minded cultural groups.
b) Immigrate away to somewhere better.
c) Complain a lot on an individual level, which does nothing but cause you anguish.

Which would be your choice?

I really do not appreciate the malicious sarcasm here. If you would like to have a respectful discussion, please let me know.

I would enjoy immigrating legally to Canada, but I do not have that option at the moment. My original comment still stands. I am disgusted with our government, our politicians, and those other individuals who are in power. I am disgusted with the racial discrimination still rampant in our country. I am disgusted with the distribution of wealth in our country. I am disgusted at the treatment of the poor and the disenfranchised.

I am going into a field of study in which I would be working with and helping criminals, something most people are too afraid to do. I would be helping them to build self-esteem, self-respect, and a new outlook on life, something that many of them garnered from constant deprivation and a lack of necessary resources, which is another factor that our country could deal with but chooses not to. I have seen other countries and realize that they do not always function under the same ideals as the United States does, but that does not change my opinion on my own country. We may seem happy and wealthy, but when 1% of the country controls 98% of the wealth, how can any person say we are living in luxury?

 

[LilyAnn]

Spies on everyone, this problem is what Americans cause globally.
Here in Europe, a couple of countries, and especially Germany and France, lost their trust towards America, because they spy on residents of this continent too.
I predict war, and it's all NSA's fault.



Well, the jails in The Netherlands and Belgium seem to be very comfy, they have really nice beds, they have an own kitchen filled with good food available for all prisoners, and a nice restaurant with a Menu you can choose from.
To add to it all, all this stuff, plus life, is completely free of charge, as long as you're in prison, and you can even earn some extra cash, by working in jail.

I'm all serious about this, I know a few people in person who were in prison for some time.

Really? That sounds a lot better than the ones here. They just serve their prisoners slope here in America. And if the NSA starts a war I would not be surprised. Which is why I want to move to Canada.

 

[Kanzler]

I really do not appreciate the malicious sarcasm here. If you would like to have a respectful discussion, please let me know.

I would enjoy immigrating legally to Canada, but I do not have that option at the moment. My original comment still stands. I am disgusted with our government, our politicians, and those other individuals who are in power. I am disgusted with the racial discrimination still rampant in our country. I am disgusted with the distribution of wealth in our country. I am disgusted at the treatment of the poor and the disenfranchised.

I am going into a field of study in which I would be working with and helping criminals, something most people are too afraid to do. I would be helping them to build self-esteem, self-respect, and a new outlook on life, something that many of them garnered from constant deprivation and a lack of necessary resources, which is another factor that our country could deal with but chooses not to. I have seen other countries and realize that they do not always function under the same ideals as the United States does, but that does not change my opinion on my own country. We may seem happy and wealthy, but when 1% of the country controls 98% of the wealth, how can any person say we are living in luxury?

Even with your disgust for government and politicians, have you any love for your country in terms of the people, culture or the values that you think America should stand/once stood for? Right now the issues you're describing are all political, but what about things you find are non-political (if that should be a case)?

For that is one of the factors that affect my Chinese nationalism: culture, people, and values. Of course I cannot regard the poorly enforced legal system (although the re-education through labour camps should be gone in the near future), the rampant corruption - actually no. Given everything I'm supposed to feel about China's government from having grown up in the West, I'm actually quite impressed by the top leaders, what they've done so far, and what they're continuing to do in transforming this country. So maybe I cannot empathize with you completely on that front.

However to explain my politics vs. culture point further, let's consider Mao Zedong, a controversial political figure. We know Mao was pretty terrible when it came to ruining the economy and creating anarchy through his absolute personal influence that he used to dominate the people he worked with. However, he did give China revolution, and to this day I still see the Chinese as a revolutionary people :) So even though I am disgusted by the politics, I am still proud of the cultural legacy. It is the Chinese people's revolutionary nature that they continue to protest and pressure the government for change. So even within such a polarizing (perhaps not in the West) political figure, there is a cultural aspect of which I am proud of.

It looks like I wouldn't be the best candidate for world citizenship. Or does it? I think to the extent that a national identity involves a feeling of "international citizenship", these two identities promote each other instead of being counter to one another. If your country valued multilateral discussions to solve global problems, promoted non-intervention and political dialogue and consensus to solve problems, and as well is generally well-integrated with the global world economically or culturally (through immigration for example) - if it is in your country's national values to break down national barriers - then to be national would be international, wouldn't it? Is that an oxymoron or am I just doublethinking?

Also, to spoil all of you:

Spoiler:

The thread's title comes from a question in the Political Compass quiz. Again, props to LoudSilence for figuring it out first :P

 

[MKGirlism]

And if the NSA starts a war I would not be surprised.

I didn't say NSA would start a war, I said war will be started, thanks to NSA.
Aka, countries fighting each other, and the 'man in the middle' caused it.

It's like:
Burger King and McDonald's start a war, because KFC spied on them.

 

[Rayshin]

The Philippine government's decisions have not been the best ones, truth be told. I have no love for politics, quite ironic due to the fact that my family have been known to be politicians. I just don't see the beauty in grown, pot-bellied men squabbling for power and messing up the country. Sure, they occasionally get the right thing done, but it's merely a fortuitous occurrence in their selfish endeavours.
To sum it up, I will only support my country when they make the right decisions.

 

[Kanzler]

I didn't say NSA would start a war, I said war will be started, thanks to NSA.
Aka, countries fighting each other, and the 'man in the middle' caused it.

It's like:
Burger King and McDonald's start a war, because KFC spied on them.

Come on, back on topic people. I'm not sure how relevant the NSA as a government agency is to national feelings, but the impact of spying on international relations would be a fascinating topic and it's one that I don't know much about. If anybody makes such a thread I will shower it with love and close attention :3

The Philippine government's decisions have not been the best ones, truth be told. I have no love for politics, quite ironic due to the fact that my family have been known to be politicians. I just don't see the beauty in grown, pot-bellied men squabbling for power and messing up the country. Sure, they occasionally get the right thing done, but it's merely a fortuitous occurrence in their selfish endeavours.
To sum it up, I will only support my country when they make the right decisions.

But what's the right decisions?

 

[Star-Lord]

I didn't say anything about the amount of people, all I was talking about, was the existence of these kind of people, amount doesn't matter (because I know North-America has most fat people by far).

Then it's not really fair for you to say that they exist in Europe when we're obviously talking about the amount and the epidemic of obesity in North America.

 

[MKGirlism]

Actually, it was not obvious to me.

 

[The Mighty Kamina]

Even with your disgust for government and politicians, have you any love for your country in terms of the people, culture or the values that you think America should stand/once stood for? Right now the issues you're describing are all political, but what about things you find are non-political (if that should be a case)?[/SPOILER]

I have love for some of my country's achievements, and some of its people. I too am currently making plans and preparations to leave this country, at least for a while. Cultural legacy only goes so far when you have politicians and hateful people who seek to propetuate a broken system and act as enemies of equality. It's hard for me to appreciate the triumph of civil rights when racism still chokes the country, for example.

 

[Dakotah]

I like my country and am glad that I am a citizen of Canada. Although the country is not perfect (by a long shot) it is a country that offers me more freedom to enjoy life than even the country to the south, which purports to be the land of the free, but is anything but.

 

[Sir Codin]

I hate my country. Everybody else in the world hates it, so there must be something wrong with it.

 

[Livewire]

I think blind obedience, whether it be patriotic or nationalistic, is a very slippery slope to walk on. Unchecked nationalism has taken humanity to very dark places before, and can do so again. I would rather be considered a patriot than a nationalist. 'Nationalist' carries a more politically & culturally aggressive connotation, in my opinion.

 

[LoudSilence]

I think blind obedience, whether it be patriotic or nationalistic, is a very slippery slope to walk on. Unchecked nationalism has taken humanity to very dark places before, and can do so again. I would rather be considered a patriot than a nationalist. 'Nationalist' carries a more politically & culturally aggressive connotation, in my opinion.

I used to think this way too, but then I wondered what benefits even patriotism offered me.

Solidarity with people on "my" region that is separated from other regions artificially (man-made borders)? I don't really see the point, and by definition, even if the pride is not aggressive it carries a connotation of superiority and allegiance to one subset of humans over another.

At best its divisive, at worst it's dangerous.

EDIT from BlahISuck: All the props go to you dear sir. Right on!

Thank you, thank you, I try :)

And dude when I saw this I had to do a double-take. "wait normal people can't edit--whoa"

Congratulations!!

 

[Livewire]

I used to think this way too, but then I wondered what benefits even patriotism offered me.

Solidarity with people on "my" region that is separated from other regions artificially (man-made borders)? I don't really see the point, and by definition, even if the pride is not aggressive it carries a connotation of superiority and allegiance to one subset of humans over another.

At best its divisive, at worst it's dangerous.

Patriotism is like Nationalism Lite, not quite as virulent, less ideological. Still kind of bad, just not as bad.