I'd always support my country, whether it was right or wrong.

[Kanzler]

Props to LoudSilence for inspiring this one :) more props for those who gets the title reference ;)

How strongly do you identify with your country? Do you call yourself a nationalist or a patriot? What's the appropriate amount of fondness one should have for their country? Do you think your views are normal for someone of your country, politics, or age? What do you think of others who feel more or less strongly than you do? ^^ That's always a fun one.

Go into as much detail as you need to. When you're an immigrant like me, you might have different feelings about the country you live in, the country you came from - and perhaps even different feelings about the government vs the people (China or India come to mind). If you're really up for some introspection, try and figure out what makes your nationalism tick - is it the culture? the people? the accomplishments? the values? How is it different from what your parents think? And why'd that be? Try explaining the unexplainable :P as usual, there are no incorrect answers.

 

[Rezilia]

I'm one of those people that would prefer to be called a World Citizen. Being a wanderer, I don't really have loyalty to any place or time... But I'd still defend a country that I believed in, if that makes sense...?

I believe in the saying "a nation is its people". I would defend the Somalia Pirates, for example, if I could - and I often do so vocally, atleast. On the other hand, I don't like the WAY they do things.

Same thing with the U.S. Military - I hate the structure but I respect the soldiers that actually uphold their creeds.

As long as fighting for a nation will benefit the people, I wouldn't mind doing it. It's when things are like in the U.S. - where fighting for the nation helps the government but not the people - that I get so disgusted.

By that, for my own nation - the U.S., I'm definitely a rebel.

 

[Kyrul]

I wouldn't have raised my right hand and sworn the oath to protect my country and it's people if I didn't consider myself a patriot. So yes, I'm defiantly a patriot. That's the primary reason why my country's government pisses me off so much. But I can't get into details due to my oath.

 

[«Chuckles»]

Well I do plan to join the army but I am also deciding on leaving Australia for another country because I love australia don't get me wrong but it's the government in general I don't know if its bad anywhere else but I HATE GOVERNMENT, I personally prefer Communism but that's my opinion and no one needs to know why. I wouldn't agree with everything that our country has to say but I was born here so I suppose I should at least allow these things to happen. I know that mindset is wrong but I am not going to protest against the government other people are doing that and it's not that big of a deal governments squabble all the time.

 

[Flushed]

I'm of the mindset that we as people are so insignificant that any sense of nationalism doesn't have an impact. It ties in with voting. I would not go to great lengths to defend my country's actions, or, dare I say, defend even my country itself. The idea that Rezilia brings up of a World citizen is interesting/more accurately describes me, but even so, what is the purpose of pledging your allegiance to a such a society?

 

[Synerjee]

For me, I do love my country and identify with it strongly enough, but I do feel that there are many other countries that top it in many different aspects. For the appropriate amount of fondness, I would say there is no exact and appropriate amount; rather just an immeasurable bond with an individual with his or her country. It is a bond that should never be broken no matter how fond of the country one is or not. Hm. I do believe a lot of people around my age from my country share my views as even though my country isn't exactly one of the safest around, there will almost certainly never be a country one will call home as much as the one he or she is born in, even if he or she migrates to another country and revokes his or her original citizenship. As for others who feel differently, I don't really mind or give much thought about it as people have every right to their own opinions. No one person on earth will ever have exactly the same opinions as the other. I shall not discuss about this in a political point of view as I do not care much for politics and thus don't have much to say on it. Also, if anything here that I have said has gone off course in any way, I do apologize.

 

[MKGirlism]

Other than the useless government, creating nation-destructive laws every day, I like how The Netherlands is.
Sometimes, it makes me giggle when foreigners think we're a dangerous Hackers country (like they think of Russia, Turkey, and Ukraine), and it makes me actually laugh when they think all we have are tulips, windmills, and wooden shoes (aka, stuff you find in touristic areas only) (well, windmills can be found at the entire western part of NL, but only one per village or town, not multiple ones).

Actually, when comparing NL to USA on Street View, I can say, NL is highly urbanised (unless you take New York or Los Angles to the test).

 

[Outlier]

I hate it. I think nationalism is stupid no matter where you live. It's so obnoxious, especially in sporting events such as football or mixed martial arts. Why be proud of where you were born or where you moved to? Chances are you have nothing to with the positives or negatives of the place you live anyway.

Every time someone raises their national flag or chants their countries name I just wanna shove statistics in their face about their crime rates, obesity etc. Or bring up certain things that their country is notorious for. It's just tacky and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

For example: I'm proud that country has the lowest crime rate in the world.

Really? Are you? Yeah I bet you had a lot to do with the crack down on crime where you live. *rolls eyes*

 

[MKGirlism]

Crime is something you just can't omit, it happens anywhere, no matter where you live.
But most of what you said, is about crime, having or not having it in your country doesn't make your country disgusting.

 

[Outlier]

I didn't say it makes your country disgusting. Yeah crime happens everywhere (some a lot more than others), But my point was taking pride in your country is stupid when you consider the negatives of your country as well.

Even being proud of your country for particular achievements in my opinion is still tacky if you had nothing to do with them. (which you most likely didn't)

 

[MKGirlism]

It's actually a well known fact, that every single country has its own positives and negatives, neither that is what you can omit.
Of course, I'm quite happy with the inventions people of NL created, and even stuff that are only available in NL (and sometimes in BE too), but you're right about that, you can't be proud on inventions you didn't take part in, which I completely understand.

I love NL for having things like OV Chip Card (for Bus, Train, Underground, Trams, and Ships), having courses not found anywhere in Europe (like a huge Game Developer course), and how multicultural we are these days.
I hate NL for having a pro-EU and anti-NL government, the language (for **** sake, I hate the Dutch language, it sounds so weak), and the overall mentality (most people here are very greedy, and even if you're good mates with them, they will still scam you).

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

This thread really needs a better title, in my opinion. Who in their right mind blindly suuports their country's agenda regardless of what in contains?

Anyway, I'd say without a doubt that my country is a pathetic excuse for a chosen nation. We have the fattest, stupidest, most gluttonous people on the planet, a business sector that threw us overboard 40 years ago, and a government that's out to enslave us (and it's working). How can anyone possibly respect that?

 

[Kanzler]

This thread really needs a better title, in my opinion. Who in their right mind blindly suuports their country's agenda regardless of what in contains?

Anyway, I'd say without a doubt that my country is a pathetic excuse for a chosen nation. We have the fattest, stupidest, most gluttonous people on the planet, a business sector that threw us overboard 40 years ago, and a government that's out to enslave us (and it's working). How can anyone possibly respect that?

...more props for those who gets the title reference ;)

gogogo soldier that's your mission.

I can disagree with Canada's politics at times, but there's no doubt that I love this country. No matter how the government changes, for the time being Canada is a diverse and free country. Cultures and peoples mix as freely as it can be - and it's something that I really see as an immigrant. I've bought into Canada over time, that's for sure.

I don't think I could call myself a patriot - I see that as an American word. I don't think I could call myself a nationalist either, I just have pride :) Most Canadian youth should probably have similar views. Good point with "world citizen", Rezilia. I think part of Canadian pride is a sense of "world citizenship", even if it is linked to a national identity, I guess.

 

[LoudSilence]

Is the title referring to The Political Compass? I actually took that test a few weeks back for fun, haha. Anyway, I've got a bit to say so bear with me :P:


--


I hate nationalism. Why would someone take "pride" in the fact that they and a group of other people were born on a certain piece of land over other pieces of land? What significance does it hold other than the significance your government tells you it has? And even if it somehow were special, it's not even like you had any say where you'd be born so how is it something to be proud of, like an achievement?

Your country is defined by lines in the sand drawn by people who said "mine" as if they had any claim on the Earth. Nations separated by oceans are only that way due to continental drift. Flags are patterns drawn by people who wanted "their" land to be special. We say American/English/Chinese/Arab etc. inventors/scientists/discoveries as if being American/English/Chinese/Arab had anything to do with such accomplishments when it obviously doesn't.

But what gets me the most, more than any of this, is the innate sense of superiority that comes with the nationalist mindset. By definition, if you think your country has any significance, it means other countries have less significance. They can't be equal or then your country wouldn't actually be special to you right? And maybe you might think this sounds harmless, but consider how these results make it absolutely deadly:

Your country's "interests" take precedence over the interests of others. You wouldn't think twice when your government sends aid to an area hit by a natural disaster in your country, but people would ask questions if that same level of help is offered to another country. We stop thinking in terms of responsibility to other human beings and think of responsibility to our "neighbours" and "allies". "Our people".

And just think about wars and why they happen. After religion, nationalism and the idea of nation-states have been the biggest justification used to kill other people that we're okay with. All in the name of our "interests" and for the sake of "our people" and "our land". In America we frequently tell ourselves our soldiers are "fighting for us back home" because that makes it easier to ignore the fact that they are slaughtering people and being slaughtered in return.

To help put this in perspective, consider the holocaust, which you've all been taught to make horrified faces at the like it's the only massacre to have ever happened. I wonder if anyone realises it was the result of nationalism (specifically racial superiority but the concepts are very interconnected). We portray Hitler as a monster to make his actions seem incomprehensible and sick and inhuman, when in actuality, it was just an extreme version of the very same concept we teach our children today. The very same concept that drives people to travel to other lands to fight and kill other people. The same concept that causes the disparity between first-world and third-world nations. The same concept that has US citisens dying overseas to protect vague concepts like "our freedoms" and "our rights" and to impose these ideas on others. All in the name of your country.

But hey, God bless America right? Let freedom ring and all that, or whatever slogan your country uses to make you citisens proud and okay with everything I've outlined above.


Nationalism is a pestilence.

EDIT from BlahISuck: All the props go to you dear sir. Right on!

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

gogogo soldier that's your mission.

Don't you think an obscure reference is a little out-of-place in a serious debate? It's like me bringing up Viktor Nivorski from the Terminal in regards to a comment about world citizenship.

In regards to Rezilia's comment on that, though, I really don't see the connection to what makes you a "world citizen". Does it equate to anti-Nationalism, or that a world citizen is somehow better than someone who takes pride in their country, or what?

 

[Kanzler]

Don't you think an obscure reference is a little out-of-place in a serious debate? It's like me bringing up Viktor Nivorski from the Terminal in regards to a comment about world citizenship.

In regards to Rezilia's comment on that, though, I really don't see the connection to what makes you a "world citizen". Does it equate to anti-Nationalism, or that a world citizen is somehow better than someone who takes pride in their country, or what?

Tbh, I never meant for this to be very serious. There are many reasons for this, but one of the more proximate ones was that this could potentially be a touchy subject. And if we don't take the time to laugh at it a little, then we could very well take it too seriously. It's also highly subjective, and I recognize that. My own personal nationalism could be perceived as contrived (I haven't spoken about it yet) and it's not very orthodox. I thought of this more of a discussion, a learning experience, in order to be aware and interact with what is truly a very huge diversity of ideas. After all, as LoudSilence pointed out, nationalism can be a point of cleavage between people, so toning down the seriousness was something I'd thought would get people open to discuss something that is usually too touchy in everyday life. And I've gotten at least one poster to talk about politics without knowing it when that's something she doesn't usually do ;)

That's a very very good point. Personally, I don't see nationalism and world citizenship as competing, but I guess that's heavily influenced by my Canadian identity. But you're right, there could be an anti-nationalist element to it, that'll be something I'd imagine someone more liberal than me in that respect can expand on further. I can tell you that orthodox Marxist communists would have believed in the destruction of national divides between people, so someone who leans that way would definitely think being a world citizen is better than being a nationalist (LOL not Mao, he was nationalist af).

 

[Crunch Punch]

Well... I come from Nepal, my whole family comes from Nepal, but I'm so used to British customs that I don't consider myself fully Nepalese anymore. Like, I've forgotten half the language (though I can still speak fluently to an extent), I can't read or write Nepalese, I have no interest in Nepalese media unlike my sisters or my parents, and I can't even relate much with Nepalese people that live around me anymore. Most of my friends are white, even if there are tons of Nepalese teens that live and hang out near me. Their interests, their style, their banter is so different to mine that now it's more foreign for me to hang out with people who come from my country than anywhere else. An example is music - I normally listen to indie rock from bands such as Arctic Monkeys, and the teens around me listen more to dubstep and hip-hop. They think that indie rock is 'white people music', and so I can't even share something small like that without them pre-judging me and thinking that I'm not one of them but rather belong with white people.

It's not like I hate Nepal. I still love my country and my roots. I don't want to forget the Nepalese language completely. But I still want to be myself, and there's the problem, because my interests correlate more with other people outside of my race, but because I'm not talking everyday with Nepalese guys I'm suddenly someone who supposedly wants to be 'white'.

I'm not sure if I'm really answering your question, Blah, and maybe I did go on a bit of a little rant but that's how I feel. Human beings are too dynamic to be tied down on things like nationalism and race.

 

[Esper]

I'm not sure if I'm really answering your question, Blah, and maybe I did go on a bit of a little rant but that's how I feel. Human beings are too dynamic to be tied down on things like nationalism and race.

I thought it was a pretty interesting response. Not all of us have the kind of background you do where our family has very strong ties to one place despite living in another place. That's sure to give you a different perspective than someone like, for instance, me, who's only got connections to the country I was born in and connections I created myself.

I have to say that I never had any gung ho feelings for my country, the USA when I grew up because it was all a bunch of fireworks and pilgrims to me. I had a shallow understanding. I think that's in part because I'm white and I live on the West Coast which doesn't really have the kind of cultural depth that other parts of the country like the South or East Coast have. I liked the 'world citizen' idea of identification as I got older because it seemed kind of silly to feel proud of something I didn't really feel a connection with.

Then I went abroad and I got a little homesick and I realized that there were a lot of things about being American that I liked and missed and that I shared with other people who were from there, even though they were from parts of the country that were hundreds of miles from where I grew up.

But that's kind of as far as it goes for me. I don't really get the "my country, right or wrong" mindset because surely no one is can't find fault with something in their country. A lot of people seem to dislike their country's government, for instance.

 

[Sopheria]

I think nationalism is pretty dumb. There's nothing wrong with supporting your country, but for me, my country has to earn my respect. I will say that I do feel fortunate to live in the United States, but am I proud to? Not really. It's like being proud that you found a 10 dollar bill on the sidewalk.

Can you imagine if everyone supported their country no matter what it did? The government could get away with anything with no dissent from its citizens. That's kind of a scary thought.

 

[Esper]

Can you imagine if everyone supported their country no matter what it did? The government could get away with anything with no dissent from its citizens. That's kind of a scary thought.

I think most people can separate love of their country from love of what their government does. Nationalism, to me anyway, seems like it stems more from love of one's culture and ideals and less from what the government does, though of course there are plenty of places in the world where there isn't much distinction and minorities have no say in much of anything.