I'd like to discuss Pokemon and "re-hashing".

[Arkywhitegirl]

Ever since B&W came out, I've noticed a lot of talk and what I believe to be unfair criticism from people about the Pokemon series.

I have played since the beginning and have enjoyed every generation to various degrees so I understand all the changes that have been made.

What I have noticed is a lot of people say stuff such as "Great, just the same old same old" while not taking the time to get to realize the new additions and most of these people haven't played since G/S/C. What I find hilarious is they complain about pokemon re-hashing yet these same people buy every new Madden or Call of Duty every year which arguably goes through even less changes.

People complain about "too many pokemon" but really, what do they want? Just to leave it at the original 151? Only add 10 or so new Pokemon per gen?

Many have also been making fun of others for it being "kiddy" and "for kids" yet the fact is by and large, videogaming at all is still considered for kids; no matter whether you play Pokemon or Call of Duty.

I have enjoyed every generation and will certainly enjoy this. This is just something I wanted to get off my chest.

 

[Shining Raichu]

Of course the stories follow a similar format. Eight badges, Pokemon League, villainous corporation after a Legendary Pokemon that you end up catching instead. But this is the very essence of what is awesome about Pokemon. I would be severely pissed if they changed it.

As for "too many Pokemon" - this is meant to take place in a world full of all different kinds of Pokemon - just like we live in a world with hundreds of thousands of different species of animals. These peoples' arguments are invalid and silly.

As for being "kiddy" - that's just something Pokemon fans have to get used to, that one isn't going away. But who cares if it's kiddy, to hell with them all.

 

[shengar]

Of course the stories follow a similar format. Eight badges, Pokemon League, villainous corporation after a Legendary Pokemon that you end up catching instead. But this is the very essence of what is awesome about Pokemon. I would be severely pissed if they changed it.

As for "too many Pokemon" - this is meant to take place in a world full of all different kinds of Pokemon - just like we live in a world with hundreds of thousands of different species of animals. These peoples' arguments are invalid and silly.

As for being "kiddy" - that's just something Pokemon fans have to get used to, that one isn't going away. But who cares if it's kiddy, to hell with them all.

I don't think that happen with Team Rocket in RBY and FRLG. Not Directly actually.

To hell with them that say pokemon is for pokemon. There is people in their middle 40s that still collect things from their childhood. They think one must abandon their childhood to become an adult? I pity those who think like that.

 

[jcsimpson]

My biggest problem with this is how people hate how the newer gen Pokemon look and always say "The first 151 looked the best and are the coolest" but how would it be if let's say the Gen III Pokemon had been the the first 151 to come out and Pikachu and all the original 151 were the featured Pokemon in black and white.

 

[Sydian]

What I have noticed is a lot of people say stuff such as "Great, just the same old same old" while not taking the time to get to realize the new additions and most of these people haven't played since G/S/C. What I find hilarious is they complain about pokemon re-hashing yet these same people buy every new Madden or Call of Duty every year which arguably goes through even less changes.

lmao sooooo true. v_v Or expansion packs for other games. Yeah, we're at least getting a new region, new plot, new Pokemon, new items, different graphics, new music, etc. What are they getting? An updated soundtrack, updated team rosters, updated graphics MAYBE...oh...that's all. Aww, too bad. :'(

People complain about "too many pokemon" but really, what do they want? Just to leave it at the original 151? Only add 10 or so new Pokemon per gen?

That's just a case of "take the nostalgia goggles off" for them. Some people just think the original 151 are superior and nothing will surpass them. While I do think that gen I had some great Pokemon designs and all, they were very simple. If Pokemon came in reverse and the originals were the new Gen V Pokemon instead, can you imagine how many complaints it'd probably get? "dis is magnet n pile of poo wut pokmn is dis u guyz suk :( :( :("

Many have also been making fun of others for it being "kiddy" and "for kids" yet the fact is by and large, videogaming at all is still considered for kids; no matter whether you play Pokemon or Call of Duty

Games, no matter what game, can be enjoyed by people of ALL ages. When did this idea of a "fun restriction" come about? Because I'm 18 I can't enjoy my favorite game? Bull honkey, I'll play what I want. Also want to toss is that it's just HORRIBLE and childish for older people to play games that are considered "for kids" but oh, it's perfectly fine for 4 year olds to play Call of Duty and Bioshock. Oh. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. :|

Preach it, sista! I agree with you on all points, if you haven't gathered that already. ;) lol

 

[Heliotrope]

This message has been deleted by Sydian. Reason: I agreed so much that I double posted.

Oh lawd. I laughed so hard at this. Hehem... anyways.

I haven't really heard that "Pokemon is for kids" lately. It seems a LOT of the people playing are the people who originally grew up with the first games, such as myself. Though some of them may have grown out of it eventually, a lot of people are finding new enjoyment out of the current games.

I like the familiarity of the formula. The 8 gym badges and stopping an evil organization from seeing it's plots through are part of Pokemon... but I wouldn't mind a more open Pokemon game.

I could see how some people would tire of the same formula over and over again, but I'd rather relish in all of the changes that come with each generation. It's like taking something that's already incredible and fine-tuning to improve it year after year.

 

[Azureth]

I just wish people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it just based off the designs of the new Pokemon. I tried to get a friend to play and he said if I can show him 5 pokemon he thinks looks cool he'll play. He looked at them all and the only one he said looked remotely cool was Klinklang. He also complained about the way Team Plasma looked and their name.

 

[Kirbychu]

Just because other franchises rehash doesn't mean that it's okay for Pokemon to, I think those complaints are fair. Would it kill Game Freak to branch out a bit from the original plot? I like variety, and the whole gym badges and elite 4 thing is just getting old; it doesn't even make sense anymore. There's loads of competent trainers at the Battle Frontier yet you're the only one who's beaten the Champion? Pokemon League Tournaments please. Some more variety would make Pokemon even better.

Seriously, it took us 14 years just to get trainers that weren't 10 years-old.

That's just a case of "take the nostalgia goggles off" for them. Some people just think the original 151 are superior and nothing will surpass them. While I do think that gen I had some great Pokemon designs and all, they were very simple. If Pokemon came in reverse and the originals were the new Gen V Pokemon instead, can you imagine how many complaints it'd probably get? "dis is magnet n pile of poo wut pokmn is dis u guyz suk :( :( :("

That's not fair. Pokemon designs have changed over the generations. Some people just prefer Pokemon that are simple and animal-like, with more realistic features; I know I do. It also helps that those same people have the most fond memories with these Pokemon, since they entered the world of Pokemon with them.

 

[Raichu1988]

In some ways I agree that some people are knit-picky about what they dismiss the newer games for. You can't expect every game to stay the same and not branch out, just like you can't expect music to stay the same exact thing every cd or a tv show to remain the same for seasons and seasons, people branch out and grow including game developers, including video games. I say if you really enjoy something, you'll like it through and through whether it changes a lot or not. However, Some people only want to see the 151 original pokémon as the best because most of those people were younger children or teens at that age, they grew up with those pokémon and those pokémon hold great memories for them. Of course, that's wonderful. But it does irritate me that people just judge the new games based purely on looks and such without giving it a second glance or good reasoning to dislike it. Basically, they dislike something without looking deeper into it and yes, that is quite frustrating.

But, as Kirbychu said, some people like simple as well. The new games are a lot more different, more complex than just the designs, and some people might not want to relearn pokémon as something new and instead cherish the fondness they have for the older franchise. I also think with every type of franchise, you always have people who like the original, very beginning of the franchise. Then you have the people who like the newer stuff and the people who continue to grow with it. Then you have the people who love both the old and new and it really depends on everyone's personal preference.

Other than that, I could understand why people just bashing and bashing the newer generation of pokémon because the first one was "the best" or "kewl" would be annoying. But, you can't do much about it because as I said, there's always going to be that with things in life, not just pokémon. Like what you like, and keep it at that. Don't worry about what others around you like, because everyone has different reasons or feelings behind liking or disliking something.

 

[The Noob Hacker]

Who are you to say that it is unfair to criticize Pokemon based on those things? What exactly makes it "unfair"? In fact, how can you tell if a criticism is fair or not? Is it not just as unfair to call an argument unfair as the argument in question?

It is said that it isn't "same old same old" because there have been changes. But keep in mind that the basic formula is exactly the same. Also keep in mind that most of the changes where mainly technical or otherwise don't leave much impact on the game as a whole. Really, just changes to graphics, music, and other such things, aren't enough to make me call the games "new" or "original". Playing baseball with a blue ball instead of a white one doesn't make it a new game, it's still baseball.

That's not to say that I don't like Pokemon, but I am not blind to the series' use of rehashing.

 

[Shasjas]

the only thing i hate about them adding new pokemon is, particularly with black and white, they made it so you cant catch many of the older generation pokemon, as if to make you use the new gen. i like some of the designs of the new gen, but i still want to be able to catch an eevee for my team without having to faff about with action replays, dream world, or poketransfer.

yes, please do add more pokemon, but make sure the old ones are still catchable within the game.

 

[Pika-power]

That's the problem I had with Sapphire when I played it the first time through. There weren't many of the old pokémon and a lot of my faves were missing. IMO that game felt incomplete.

For those starting with that gen (a lot of people) it probably doesn't feel that way, but for me (having started with Blue) this killed off a lot of gameplay joy. One was, as you said, forced to use the new pokémon.

Sometimes, though, the new pokemon grow on you after a while. Sometimes you have to give them a chance.

 

[The 100 Mega Shock]

the only thing i hate about them adding new pokemon is, particularly with black and white, they made it so you cant catch many of the older generation pokemon, as if to make you use the new gen..

That's exactly what they were aiming to do with Black and White.

Essentially it's a balance between targeting new players and old players to the series. Game Freak's design with Black and White is that Unova was a far, distant land to anywhere the players have been in the previous game. Their intentions was that all players had to start on equal footing and meet new Pokémon, which is why you aren't particularly able to obtain many old Pokémon before the end of the game (As well as to encourage players to give them a chance instead of trading their favourite guys immediately).

In the end, with 493 old Pokémon around, it wasn't feasible to have every single one of them obtainable in Unova alone, and they have to live with the fact that someones' favourite might not be directly obtainable.

However, they put effort into systems like the GTS as ways for players to slowly, but surely obtain the Pokémon that they want no matter what they are.

 

[Dominus Temporis]

Ever since B&W came out, I've noticed a lot of talk and what I believe to be unfair criticism from people about the Pokemon series.

I have played since the beginning and have enjoyed every generation to various degrees so I understand all the changes that have been made.

What I have noticed is a lot of people say stuff such as "Great, just the same old same old" while not taking the time to get to realize the new additions and most of these people haven't played since G/S/C. What I find hilarious is they complain about pokemon re-hashing yet these same people buy every new Madden or Call of Duty every year which arguably goes through even less changes.

People complain about "too many pokemon" but really, what do they want? Just to leave it at the original 151? Only add 10 or so new Pokemon per gen?

Many have also been making fun of others for it being "kiddy" and "for kids" yet the fact is by and large, videogaming at all is still considered for kids; no matter whether you play Pokemon or Call of Duty.

I have enjoyed every generation and will certainly enjoy this. This is just something I wanted to get off my chest.

This, a thousand times this. You know, the most popular and successful franchises stick to a tried-and-true formula. Mario always goes on a journey to save the princess and jumps on turtles' heads along the way, Link always takes up his sword and traverses dungeons to pick up new items to save the princess, etc etc. It's the same because it works, and Pokemon's success is a big indicator of that. People were convinced it would just be a fad back in the 90s but it's become one of Nintendo's top franchises. Clearly it's doing something right.

I suggest just laughing at the people who claim the designs are getting worse. They're just stuck in the past, attached only to the first generation or two because of overwhelming nostalgia, and they refuse to try anything new. Take a look at Gen I, how many evolutions there were just "it's the same but bigger" or "it grows more heads"? Graphics have improved over the years and it's given the designers the opportunity to try bolder, more varied designs.

Honestly, if it was just the same 151 Pokemon in Kanto every time, I'd have stopped playing years ago. I like to see what GameFreak comes up with for each new generation. Every batch has its ups and downs (Stunfisk, I'm looking at you), but if they'd open their minds and be willing to try something new, they'd see some great Pokemon. Galvantula, Braviary, Escavalier, Haxorus, Darmanitan, Reuniclus, Golurk, Excadrill- the current generation has produced some of the coolest Pokemon so far.

 

[Sage Harpuia]

I'm a guy that sometimes says "it's the same thing all over" but I do not complain about story or pokemon, but on the rule of the game itself, like the battle system and stuff like that...to quote Dominus Temporis, Mario still save the princess, however now he travel on planets, but, at the same time, it feels like the same good old mario.
On the "pokemon desing are getting worse" matter I think it's just ridicolus: there are some desing that just piss me off and some that I like, from gen I to gen V.

 

[twocows]

I suggest just laughing at the people who claim the designs are getting worse.

Yeah, I'm laughing pretty hard right now. Not at them, though. Mario hasn't innovated? That's the best joke I've heard all week. You've got Mario RPGs, Mario sports games, even the main platform series has Mario Galaxy which is hugely innovative. Some series don't make any particular advancements and they're still somewhat fun, sure, but the really good ones try new things. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they succeed. Rehashing the same thing fifty times gets old fast, though, and I was under the impression that Nintendo was supposed to be all about innovation.

Whatever, though, I'll be over here playing Bioshock, Portal, and the Mario games that apparently you've been skipping for the past ten years and enjoying myself while waiting for some real innovation from this series.

For the record, I thought Colosseum was an entertaining and fresh game, even if the implementation was a bit flaky. I probably played through it more times than some of the games in the main series. I was honestly surprised when I found out that it was one of the most hated games in the series. I'm also the only person I've ever known who actually beat and saw the ending for Hey You, Pikachu!, another innovative game (especially for its time) that nobody seemed to give a chance.

Fanboys hating on every divergent game in the series is the reason we're still playing RBY with updated graphics and battles over ten years later. Thanks, fanboys, maybe if you would stop collectively wetting yourself over the new sprites (which, yes, I feel are worse than the old ones, but that's just taste) we could actually go somewhere.

 

[Oryx]

Yeah, I'm laughing pretty hard right now. Not at them, though. Mario hasn't innovated? That's the best joke I've heard all week. You've got Mario RPGs, Mario sports games, even the main platform series has Mario Galaxy which is hugely innovative. Some series don't make any particular advancements and they're still somewhat fun, sure, but the really good ones try new things. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they succeed. Rehashing the same thing fifty times gets old fast, though, and I was under the impression that Nintendo was supposed to be all about innovation.

Whatever, though, I'll be over here playing Bioshock, Portal, and the Mario games that apparently you've been skipping for the past ten years and enjoying myself while waiting for some real innovation from this series.

For the record, I thought Colosseum was an entertaining and fresh game, even if the implementation was a bit flaky. I probably played through it more times than some of the games in the main series. I was honestly surprised when I found out that it was one of the most hated games in the series. I'm also the only person I've ever known who actually beat and saw the ending for Hey You, Pikachu!, another innovative game (especially for its time) that nobody seemed to give a chance.

Fanboys hating on every divergent game in the series is the reason we're still playing RBY with updated graphics and battles over ten years later. Thanks, fanboys, maybe if you would stop collectively wetting yourself over the new sprites (which, yes, I feel are worse than the old ones, but that's just taste) we could actually go somewhere.

This is what I completely don't understand from people that claim Pokemon doesn't innovate, every game is the same, etc. Yes, there are RBY, GSC, etc., that are all pretty much the same. I see you've tried Colosseum (not my favorite) and Hey You, Pikachu! (one of my favorites), did you try Pokemon Snap? Did you try Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Red/Blue Rescue Team? Did you try Pokemon TCG? Did you try Pokemon Dash? Did you try Pokemon Trozei? Did you try Pokemon Ranger? That doesn't even include the console games that have been released.

People that claim Pokemon hasn't innovated only glances at the handheld RPG games and don't seem to take the time or effort to even see if their claim is true. :/ The RPG is for people that A. like the original formula and want to continue playing it, or B. have never played a Pokemon game before so the formula is still new to them. Many people don't limit themselves to the RPGs, especially if they want to complain about innovation.

 

[twocows]

This is what I completely don't understand from people that claim Pokemon doesn't innovate, every game is the same, etc. Yes, there are RBY, GSC, etc., that are all pretty much the same. I see you've tried Colosseum (not my favorite) and Hey You, Pikachu! (one of my favorites), did you try Pokemon Snap? Did you try Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Red/Blue Rescue Team? Did you try Pokemon TCG? Did you try Pokemon Dash? Did you try Pokemon Trozei? Did you try Pokemon Ranger? That doesn't even include the console games that have been released.

People that claim Pokemon hasn't innovated only glances at the handheld RPG games and don't seem to take the time or effort to even see if their claim is true. :/ The RPG is for people that A. like the original formula and want to continue playing it, or B. have never played a Pokemon game before so the formula is still new to them. Many people don't limit themselves to the RPGs, especially if they want to complain about innovation.

That's not the point. The point is that the fan whining about how bad these games are is the reason we don't see more innovation. I thought all of those games were at least interesting, and many were some of my favorites in the series. I still play TCG for GBC sometimes. The only ones of these games that I'm aware of that had sequels were Colosseum (sort of) and Mystery Dungeon, which was the only one of these that I didn't particularly like. There was never another Pokemon Snap, there was never another TCG implementation in the US because of its tepid reception, Pokemon Channel is the closest thing to a sequel to Hey You, Pikachu! but it can't really be considered a sequel. And it's all because whiny fanboys are complaining that they're not working 24/7 on the next game. Well, now they are, and we're getting games in the main series released almost yearly now and very few to no innovative branch games in sight.

 

[The 100 Mega Shock]

The thing is, Mario and Zelda's innovations have been seen throughout their real games too, not spin-offs farmed out to second-rate developers.

Even Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest changed more than Pokémon.

 

[Oryx]

That's not the point. The point is that the fan whining about how bad these games are is the reason we don't see more innovation. I thought all of those games were at least interesting, and many were some of my favorites in the series. I still play TCG for GBC sometimes. The only ones of these games that I'm aware of that had sequels were Colosseum (sort of) and Mystery Dungeon, which was the only one of these that I didn't particularly like. There was never another Pokemon Snap, there was never another TCG implementation, Pokemon Channel is the closest thing to a sequel to Hey You, Pikachu! but it can't really be considered a sequel. And it's all because whiny fanboys are complaining that they're not working 24/7 on the next game. Well, now they are, and we're getting games in the main series released almost yearly now and very few to no innovative branch games in sight.

There have been 7 non-RPG games in the past 3 years though. o-o; The Ranch thing, a Mystery Dungeon sequel, and a Ranger sequel in 2008, a Ranger sequel, Pokemon Rumble and PokePark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure in 2009, and another Ranger sequel in 2010. I'm not sure how you can claim they're not making any non-RPG games anymore just because they're not making the ones you liked.

Granted, I loved TCG, and Snap, and Hey You Pikachu!, but I can understand that they're trying different things, that cater to the different technology nowadays.