Is a disability an excuse?

[gimmepie]

I'm not saying we should just let people get away with anything they want just because they have ADHD. You are focusing entirely on very clear cut good/bad moral issues, but those aren't the only ones that exist. Inhibited social abilities can lead to difficulties in determining right and wrong in smaller situations. It might not be severe and it might not explain more drastic unacceptable behavior, but smaller behaviors/actions that might make other people angry can become more frequent in a person with ADHD than one without. Obviously, we can't just say "hey let's just let 'em do it lololol" but I think we need to be aware that suffering from ADHD and doing bad things is different than not suffering from ADHD and doing bad things, especially if it's undiagnosed.

I doubt that undiagnosed ADHD is very common considering it's one of the most over-diagnosed conditions there is. Anyway, I'm not denying that ADHD could make certain social situations/interactions more difficult. I fully agree that managing social situations with any form of hindrance is not easy when we live in a very judgmental society. I just want it to be clear that having a condition doesn't excuse you from trying your damnedest not to cross boundaries nor does it necessarily mean you are not self-aware.

I wasn't comparing them at all, so please stop misinterpreting what I'm saying :v The topic never specified any specific medical problem, so I was simply suggesting another one since you seem dead-set on saying that ADHD has no effects on a person's ability to determine right from wrong. I'll suggest yet another: what about high-functioning autism/Aspergers? These disorders inhibit a person's ability to behave socially, which can affect their ability to determine right from wrong. To me, while we shouldn't let any extremely bad behavior they have run rampant, we should definitely be more cognizant of how their symptoms can affect their moral judgment.

The comparison was implicit the moment you chose specifically to mention those two conditions together. With high-functioning autism and Asperger's a big part of the condition is difficulty handling emotions, reading social queues and interacting appropriately. These are things that characterise the condition.

That being said, if you're high-functioning you are capable of learning what you can and cannot do. You are able to become self-aware of your problems and work on the. Behaving appropriately in a social setting will be extremely difficult at times, but it's not impossible and having the condition does not make you exempt from trying to behave in an acceptable manner. I'm speaking from experience on that one, although admittedly I have the advantage of being raised well.

 

[Trev]

I doubt that undiagnosed ADHD is very common considering it's one of the most over-diagnosed conditions there is. Anyway, I'm not denying that ADHD could make certain social situations/interactions more difficult. I fully agree that managing social situations with any form of hindrance is not easy when we live in a very judgmental society. I just want it to be clear that having a condition doesn't excuse you from trying your damnedest not to cross boundaries nor does it necessarily mean you are not self-aware.

I never said or implied that a person doesn't have to try or that they weren't self-aware. I have said several times that this stuff can be harder because of certain conditions and that operating differently in social situations can definitely impact whether you realize something is inherently right or wrong (not on the large scale that has been suggested several times already, but on smaller scales).

The comparison was implicit the moment you chose specifically to mention those two conditions together.

The comparison never existed until you decided to compare them. I didn't mention them together. I made it very clear I was speaking about a different condition. You can debate on my intentions all you want, but since I actually have my intentions and you can only interpret what they could based on my text, I don't think that's a worthwhile debate to have :v

With high-functioning autism and Asperger's a big part of the condition is difficulty handling emotions, reading social queues and interacting appropriately. These are things that characterise the condition.

That being said, if you're high-functioning you are capable of learning what you can and cannot do. You are able to become self-aware of your problems and work on the. Behaving appropriately in a social setting will be extremely difficult at times, but it's not impossible and having the condition does not make you exempt from trying to behave in an acceptable manner. I'm speaking from experience on that one, although admittedly I have the advantage of being raised well.

Okay, but again, I haven't said that it should exempt them, nor have I said that it's impossible to distinguish right from wrong with a specific condition. I've said that we, the outsiders who may or may not have to handle a situation created by a person whose ability to distinguish right from wrong and behave according to those morals is affected by a condition, need to handle the situation differently depending on the presence of and severity of a condition than we would from someone without a condition, and that, in the event of a bad situation being caused as a result of that behavior, we should be handling punishment/scolding/whatever differently and less severely. That's what I've said since my original post.

 

[gimmepie]

Snip

I'm starting to think we don't actually disagree overly much.

 

[ilookgorgeous]

Basically what the title says. Is a disability or mental illness necessarily an excuse for acting in poor taste, breaking rules or even circumventing the law?

People who are mentally ill, who are in mental wards, who tend to hear voices that tell them to act bad, and act against the rules are the ones in the norm. They have hallucinations that tell them to do things, and they talk to people who aren't there. That's schizophrenia, and a disability. They don't know themselves. Because they hallucinate and have false memories. People with illnesses can act completely normal. Some people have racing thoughts that slow down only when they think about themselves. That's a symptom of Bipolar. But it's possible to have depression, bipolar and schizophrenia. And have to be on disability. The medicine that a person takes can hinder their ability to drive, as it makes a person drowsy. Even there's a condition called tardive dyskinesia where a person has involuntary muscle movements. That they can't control their mouths. With a chemical imbalance, not all the messages can reach the brain. So it's like not knowing how to cope with problems. As it's like your brain never got the message. It's sad. But that's how people live. :) I've met a lot of mentally ill people, and read what kinds of medicine people take for their illness. It can be a lot harder to cope with problems when you have an illness. People get restrained if they have bad behaviors like striking people with fists or slapping them. There's a call button saying that someone's being violent, where the staff have to come in and put them in restraints til they stop acting out, in mental wards. Like the state hospital has that. And there's even elopement precautions. Some patients don't like mental wards, and they try to escape from them. They're forced to take medicine at certain times a day in mental wards. Like in the evening, and in the morning. They have a big cafeteria in mental wards, and they get to eat what's on the menu, and they don't really have a lot of options on what to eat when they're in a mental institution. It really is an excuse.

 

[Trev]

I'm starting to think we don't actually disagree overly much.

It happens :v We probably just misunderstood what the other was saying.