Is a disability an excuse?

[Majestic Electric]

Disabled people are people! So, they do all the things people do, for instance, using whatever they can to gain an advantage. Some people use their good looks, their youth, their old age, their wealth etc etc.

Disabled people are indeed people, but I disagree with everything else you said. I have ADD, which I take medication for, and I also have a 504 plan at school. This allows me to get extra time on exams or assignments, if I need them. So, what you're saying is, because I get extra help in school and take a pill to help me focus, I suddenly have an advantage over everyone else at my school? How does that make any sense? What you fail to realize is, in reality, I'd be at a huge disadvantage academically compared to my peers without those tools, as would a lot of others. There are people who abuse the system, and that's true, but that number is very small compared to the amount of people who actually do need help. They can't help it if they were born the way they were! It's the same for others who have a different disorder.

 

[Maya]

Yes and no. There are many people whose disabilities provide them with legitimate excuses for circumventing certain rules. As for laws; there are measures in place to prevent these types of people from committing crime (such as institutions in the case of a severe mental disability).

On the other hand, there are also many people who brand certain conditions as 'disabilities' for the sole purpose of using them as excuses. I feel that one good example of this is obesity; it is entirely preventable.

 

[Shining Raichu]

Not always, but they definitely can be. I have a friend who was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis a couple of years back. I often joke that it was the best thing that ever happened to her, because for years before she was even symptomatic, she had been coming up with excuses not to try and find work, or study, or do anything with her life. Now she actually can't do a lot of things. She finally has a legitimate excuse that she can use until she dies.

 

[Bobbylicious]

when i was in school and i was 16 we were in science learning about the reproductive system and we watched a video on like how babies are made in cartoon version and this autistic kid started masturbating under the table and came all over his hand and then held his hand out and said "can i wash my hand" and he only got suspended for 21 days and if that was an able-bodied student 100% you can bet your sweet ass they'd have gotten expelled and this was over 6 years ago and to this day I'm still fuming like there's no way his autism was an excuse for his behaviour he knew what he was doing

 

[Dyskinesia]

It's not an excuse but it can definitely be an explanation, and depending on the severity of the illness I don't think they should be treated exactly the same as a healthy person who does the same thing. Not that they should get off free but like a difference between community service as a punishment vs mandatory hospitalization, for example.

 

[Caaethil]

Depends how you define excuse. Can a disability serve as a rationale for why somebody might have done something? Of course. Does that mean the disability excuses it, as in, makes it okay? Not really.

A mental disorder does not excuse breaking rules or breaking the law, it can only help to explain it.

Acting in poor taste is a bit different. If you're like me (high functioning autism), you've probably said things out of line that you didn't expect to be taken so badly, especially in younger years. I think it's important that people understand that some people struggle with these disabilities and have some degree of tolerance as long as the people in question are willing to improve.

 

[Trev]

I think when you word it as "excuse," it comes across as inherently negative. I think that a disability might be a reason someone behaves in a negative way, but that doesn't mean it's an excuse. But there does have to be a line. I know someone who has Asperger, and people defend some of the racist/homophobic things he says because he has Asperger whenever I call him out for it. He's a decent guy minus the racism/homophobia, and while I understand that his condition makes social interactions difficult, I don't think it's an excuse to allow him to say whatever he wants, and when I was in school, I tried my best to inform him about how some of his opinions were discriminatory without being rude. I also realized that it would be a losing battle to continue to do so since I knew he'd have difficulty understanding concepts that I was talking about.

You really just have to know where to draw the line with people and just be respectful to conditions. That doesn't mean you have to let them say whatever they want, but it also doesn't mean you need to harshly punish/criticize them for the things they do.

 

[Narwhal]

I mean to an extent it can be used as an excuse but if you blame everything on your disability then it starts developing into a problem.

 

[Her]

I mean to an extent it can be used as an excuse but if you blame everything on your disability then it starts developing into a problem.

For the sake of debate, what level of 'excuse' is able to be forgiven in your eyes?

 

[Narwhal]

For the sake of debate, what level of 'excuse' is able to be forgiven in your eyes?

Like to the point of small mental diseases like add and adhd it becomes easy to use it to excuse yourself from silly tjkngs

 

[Trev]

But why do people without ADD or ADHD get to determine what constitutes "silly things" to be affected by?

(If you do have ADD/ADHD, this post isn't meant to imply that you specifically don't have that condition. It's meant to pose a question and nothing more)

 

[gimmepie]

But why do people without ADD or ADHD get to determine what constitutes "silly things" to be affected by?

(If you do have ADD/ADHD, this post isn't meant to imply that you specifically don't have that condition. It's meant to pose a question and nothing more)

Because the general symptoms of ADD/ADHD are not things that prevent you from functioning properly in society in most cases. So it's not really something you can blame for your failures or social problems or whatnot in most cases - although there are certainly people who try.

 

[Narwhal]

Because the general symptoms of ADD/ADHD are not things that prevent you from functioning properly in society in most cases. So it's not really something you can blame for your failures or social problems or whatnot in most cases - although there are certainly people who try.

exactly what i try to explain to people all the time.

 

[Trev]

Because the general symptoms of ADD/ADHD are not things that prevent you from functioning properly in society in most cases. So it's not really something you can blame for your failures or social problems or whatnot in most cases - although there are certainly people who try.

I disagree.

Spoiler:

Many of these symptoms can inhibit a person's ability to function both socially and in general. The cognitive section, in particular, is one that stands out to me as having the most negative impact on an individual's ability to function in society correctly. Something as simple as difficulty in remembering a name can create rifts in friendships and make socializing harder and make it seem more daunting. Forgetfulness and attention problems can easily create a lot of issues in someone's life, as can irritability, impulsivity, and a lack of restraint. I understand that there might be some people who misuse a serious developmental issue like ADHD as an excuse, but that doesn't mean that ADHD has no major effects on someone's life, and it's more of an explanation for them than it is an excuse (and when ADHD treatment involves medications and therapy, using it as an excuse when it's warranted is really the only thing they can do for themselves in the moments in which they realize that an issue happened because of the effect of ADHD on their cognitive functioning).

 

[gimmepie]

Snip

ADHD might make behaving acceptably harder, it does not make it anywhere near impossible. Being impulsive or fidgety is not an excuse for going through with blatantly wrong behaviour. Your ability to tell right from wrong and your ability to judge the acceptability of your actions are still functional. If you key someone's car you don't get to say "ADHD made me do it".

 

[Trev]

ADHD might make behaving acceptably harder, it does not make it anywhere near impossible. Being impulsive or fidgety is not an excuse for going through with blatantly wrong behaviour. Your ability to tell right from wrong and your ability to judge the acceptability of your actions are still functional. If you key someone's car you don't get to say "ADHD made me do it".

But keying someone's car is not the behavior I'm talking about :v I'm talking about the stuff that's not illegal, like the example I gave in my original post, or being extremely forgetful or bad at socializing. Yes, for some, it can be impossible. Behaving in specific ways in society can be a lot harder with ADHD, and some people (especially those who are undiagnosed) simply can't overcome some of the obstacles presented by the disorder on their own. Unless they get treatment, they might struggle to the point where they can't overcome it. They might not even realize that it's something that can be fixed in the first place. We can't use it to waive punishment for serious crimes, but regardless, their actions are always affected by the disorder because that's just how it works.

Also, reducing ADHD down to "impulsive and fidgety" ignores the other problems associated with the disorder that can also cause issues, and that's really not a good way to discuss it. It's more complex than that.

 

[gimmepie]

But keying someone's car is not the behavior I'm talking about :v I'm talking about the stuff that's not illegal, like the example I gave in my original post, or being extremely forgetful or bad at socializing. Yes, for some, it can be impossible. Behaving in specific ways in society can be a lot harder with ADHD, and some people (especially those who are undiagnosed) simply can't overcome some of the obstacles presented by the disorder on their own. Unless they get treatment, they might struggle to the point where they can't overcome it. They might not even realize that it's something that can be fixed in the first place. We can't use it to waive punishment for serious crimes, but regardless, their actions are always affected by the disorder because that's just how it works.

Also, reducing ADHD down to "impulsive and fidgety" ignores the other problems associated with the disorder that can also cause issues, and that's really not a good way to discuss it. It's more complex than that.

It doesn't matter what kind of behaviour we're talking about. If you have ADHD your ability to discern right from wrong in any context is not inhibited. Yes, it might make things harder, but if you know not to behave a certain way then you can still be appropriate.

 

[Trev]

It doesn't matter what kind of behaviour we're talking about. If you have ADHD your ability to discern right from wrong in any context is not inhibited. Yes, it might make things harder, but if you know not to behave a certain way then you can still be appropriate.

If a person suffering from ADHD is extremely excitable and other people respond negatively to that, why does that immediately make the person with ADHD in the wrong? I don't buy that, sorry. If you are literally suffering from a disorder that directly inhibits your ability to function socially (which is absolutely something ADHD does), and it makes not doing something nearly impossible (without the use of medication or therapy or other treatments), then I don't think we should be judging that individual or shaming them for their behavior unless it causes physical or mental harm to another person. There are various aspects of ADHD that can result in that kind of harm to others, yes, but again, when someone has a disorder that affects their functioning in ways that other people aren't affected, then we have to handle them differently than we would someone without the disorder.

ADHD isn't the only disease. What about low-functioning autism? Where do we draw the line between "behavior that cannot be excused despite autism" and "behavior that should probably be excused because of autism?" Do you really think we should punish a person suffering from a disease that is literally inhibiting major parts of their cognitive function for a crime that they may or may not even realize is a bad thing because they lack the capacity to even be aware of what they're doing, let alone whether it's right or wrong?

 

[gimmepie]

If a person suffering from ADHD is extremely excitable and other people respond negatively to that, why does that immediately make the person with ADHD in the wrong? I don't buy that, sorry. If you are literally suffering from a disorder that directly inhibits your ability to function socially (which is absolutely something ADHD does), and it makes not doing something nearly impossible (without the use of medication or therapy or other treatments), then I don't think we should be judging that individual or shaming them for their behavior unless it causes physical or mental harm to another person. There are various aspects of ADHD that can result in that kind of harm to others, yes, but again, when someone has a disorder that affects their functioning in ways that other people aren't affected, then we have to handle them differently than we would someone without the disorder.

I'm not talking about a person being excitable. If you can't tolerate being in the presence of someone with hyperactive tendencies, that's on you. I'm talking about right and wrong. You can't use ADHD as an excuse for doing something that is straight up unacceptable because it does not inhibit your moral judgement to the point you can't tell the difference between acceptable behaviour and unacceptable behaviour.

ADHD isn't the only disease. What about low-functioning autism? Where do we draw the line between "behavior that cannot be excused despite autism" and "behavior that should probably be excused because of autism?" Do you really think we should punish a person suffering from a disease that is literally inhibiting major parts of their cognitive function for a crime that they may or may not even realize is a bad thing because they lack the capacity to even be aware of what they're doing, let alone whether it's right or wrong?

ADHD and autism aren't diseases. That's a whole other issue though.

Secondly, people with low-functioning autism don't have the capacity to make approrpiate decisions and behave in a socially acceptable fashion. It is not even remotely comparable to ADHD so please don't even try. That's a false equivalency if ever I've seen one.

 

[Trev]

I'm not talking about a person being excitable. If you can't tolerate being in the presence of someone with hyperactive tendencies, that's on you. I'm talking about right and wrong. You can't use ADHD as an excuse for doing something that is straight up unacceptable because it does not inhibit your moral judgement to the point you can't tell the difference between acceptable behaviour and unacceptable behaviour.

I'm not saying we should just let people get away with anything they want just because they have ADHD. You are focusing entirely on very clear cut good/bad moral issues, but those aren't the only ones that exist. Inhibited social abilities can lead to difficulties in determining right and wrong in smaller situations. It might not be severe and it might not explain more drastic unacceptable behavior, but smaller behaviors/actions that might make other people angry can become more frequent in a person with ADHD than one without. Obviously, we can't just say "hey let's just let 'em do it lololol" but I think we need to be aware that suffering from ADHD and doing bad things is different than not suffering from ADHD and doing bad things, especially if it's undiagnosed.

Secondly, people with low-functioning autism don't have the capacity to make approrpiate decisions and behave in a socially acceptable fashion. It is not even remotely comparable to ADHD so please don't even try. That's a false equivalency if ever I've seen one.

I wasn't comparing them at all, so please stop misinterpreting what I'm saying :v The topic never specified any specific medical problem, so I was simply suggesting another one since you seem dead-set on saying that ADHD has no effects on a person's ability to determine right from wrong. I'll suggest yet another: what about high-functioning autism/Aspergers? These disorders inhibit a person's ability to behave socially, which can affect their ability to determine right from wrong. To me, while we shouldn't let any extremely bad behavior they have run rampant, we should definitely be more cognizant of how their symptoms can affect their moral judgment.