Japanese-English Coalition Against Manga Sites

[Riku]

Well, Mangahelpers has pulled their RAWs and Scanlations now, too... theirs is purely precautionary, though. Just thought I'd post that to keep you guys up-to-date~

 

[digi-kun]

Well, Mangahelpers has pulled their RAWs and Scanlations now, too... theirs is purely precautionary, though. Just thought I'd post that to keep you guys up-to-date~

lol their stuff has been down for months now. I've been trying to grab early Beelzebub for a while.

 

[Netto Azure]

That totally misses the point. It's all Pokemon, regardless of what medium it takes, that brand name alone will garner it attention.

Can you please explain to me then why Viz dropped publication for 8 years?

 

[Virtual Chatot]

The "I pirate because I can't afford" argument falls flat on it's face because you are in fact stealing, no matter the reason. Its just like saying, "I murdered my wife because I wanted the insurance money."

It boils down to the simple question of whether you own and are entitled to the revenue of the product you create.

So ask yourselves, "do I think that the creator(s) of [x] manga/anime are entitled to just compensation for the work they put into it?"

 

[Netto Azure]

The "I pirate because I can't afford" argument falls flat on it's face because you are in fact stealing, no matter the reason. Its just like saying, "I murdered my wife because I wanted the insurance money."

It boils down to the simple question of whether you own and are entitled to the revenue of the product you create.

So ask yourselves, "do I think that the creator(s) of [x] manga/anime are entitled to just compensation for the work they put into it?"

Do you know that anime creators and manga-ka do not even get paid that much. It's the distributors that get a whole ton of money. >____>

 

[Shanghai Alice]

The "I pirate because I can't afford" argument falls flat on it's face because you are in fact stealing, no matter the reason. Its just like saying, "I murdered my wife because I wanted the insurance money."

It boils down to the simple question of whether you own and are entitled to the revenue of the product you create.

So ask yourselves, "do I think that the creator(s) of [x] manga/anime are entitled to just compensation for the work they put into it?"

Give me a place to buy Kill Me Baby in English.

Or give me a place to watch K-On! in English.

Hah.

I pirate it because it's not legally obtainable in English.

 

[twocows]

The "I pirate because I can't afford" argument falls flat on it's face because you are in fact stealing, no matter the reason. Its just like saying, "I murdered my wife because I wanted the insurance money."

It boils down to the simple question of whether you own and are entitled to the revenue of the product you create.

So ask yourselves, "do I think that the creator(s) of [x] manga/anime are entitled to just compensation for the work they put into it?"

1. Pirating is, by definition, not stealing. Again, stealing takes something away. There is no actual profit loss from piracy because nothing is removed from the manufacturer. The most that could be potentially justified is virtual profit loss, and that's arguable. As for the legal definition, piracy has never been found to be equivalent to stealing, and even if it was, such an argument would be an appeal to law.

2. The comparison to murder is outright absurd. The two things are not even remotely analogous, and furthermore the use of loaded words is an appeal to emotion. Murder actually hurts someone and is widely accepted to be immoral (though some may argue that even this depends on context). Piracy may or may not hurt profits (again, virtual profits), but it's hardly equatable to murder and it certainly hasn't killed anyone. It is certainly not on the same moral level as murder and I resent the implication. I would defend upon penalty of death the moral character of many people I know are pirates.

3. Your argument was that piracy is unacceptable even in cases where the actual product is unaffordable, and then go on to suggest that people who you have admitted cannot afford the product should pay for something they cannot afford. This makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[J]

The "I pirate because I can't afford" argument falls flat on it's face because you are in fact stealing, no matter the reason. Its just like saying, "I murdered my wife because I wanted the insurance money."

Insurance fraud is neither copyright infringement nor theft.

Also, 'far as I know, manga artists are paid by the page, so it really doesn't matter too much to them (financially speaking) if their works are being distributed on the internet through illegal means. If anything, they may benefit from widespread recognition due to the increased availability of their works.

Note how it's the publishers speaking up rather than the mangaka themselves.

Just sayin'

 

[Lunyka]

Either way I use those scans to see what I'm gonna buy next and next is gonna be Fullmetal Alchemist.

 

[Shanghai Alice]

They got Read or Die...

Excuse me while I FRIGGIN' RAGE.

DANGIT, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? "ARE YOU STUPID? ARE YOU DEAD?"

SERIOUSLY. I LOVED THAT SERIES, AND YOU PEE IN MY FACE.

GO. TO. HELL. ALL. OF. YOU.

 

[Alice]

I don't have money... guess I don't get to enjoy manga anymore. GG

The "I pirate because I can't afford" argument falls flat on it's face because you are in fact stealing, no matter the reason. Its just like saying, "I murdered my wife because I wanted the insurance money."

It boils down to the simple question of whether you own and are entitled to the revenue of the product you create.

So ask yourselves, "do I think that the creator(s) of [x] manga/anime are entitled to just compensation for the work they put into it?"

What's the difference between that and lending your book to someone else? That's not illegal now too is it?

 

[Shanghai Alice]

Ah, right. Libraries are the scourge of the book industry, by that logic...

Also, just to counter the "The creator needs money!" argument...

The company takes most of the profits. That's to cover taxes and shtuff. Even then, the author/creator gets enough to be handsomely rewarded for his efforts just out of loyal fans. Everything else is icing on the cake.

However, manga and anime is a stickier subject.

Basically, the creator's main profits come from the Japanese release, while the foreign releases typically benefit the company.

That, or you could buy imports, and line some Taiwanese reseller's pockets.

If I read the manga and like it, I'll buy it IRL (E.g. Lucky Star, Haruhi). If I don't like it, I won't buy it, because it isn't worth my cash.

Manga is hit-and-miss already. I don't want to shell out $50 just to read four crappy volumes and finally find one good one.

 

[Harmonie]

1. Pirating is, by definition, not stealing. Again, stealing takes something away. There is no actual profit loss from piracy because nothing is removed from the manufacturer. The most that could be potentially justified is virtual profit loss, and that's arguable. As for the legal definition, piracy has never been found to be equivalent to stealing, and even if it was, such an argument would be an appeal to law.

It still "stealing", it's just a different kind. A definition that has to be expanded to the "limitless" internet.

Think of it this way (completely disregarding the fact that we can illegally access it online) why do we buy manga? Is it to have the paper and cover, or is it to read the contents within?

For me it's the last. The product is not just the physical part, it is the story within, it is what you read. When you read what's within the manga without it, you are reading it without the permission of the law, mangaka, and companies.

Why do they make money in the end? Because of the paper and cover? Again, no, because the people want to read what's within, the actual content of it.

When that content is available online illegally and people are reading it, it is a different kind of stealing. It is "taking" the product without paying money for it.

It may be 'intellectual', but it is very much a part of the product, and it is actually the core reason that people buy the product to begin with. Of course some people will read the manga online and then go buy it, but lets face it, even the best of us don't buy every single manga we've read online, and far too many don't buy any. What does that mean? It means lost money. People illegally accessing content that they were supposed to pay for to access to begin with.

You may not be stealing a physical product, but a sale that would have been made is lost, and the actual core of the product has been "taken"/read.

You want to tell me that's not stealing? It's stealing even if you pay for it later.

"to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch."

That is the definition for stealing. It doesn't matter whether the property is physical or not.

Why don't you go argue to the mangaka that you didn't steal it? They never gave you the permission to read it on that site, or download it. They decided that their manga would be a product and that it would take money to access from the very beginning. Their story, what they've written is their property. And by reading it online illegally you have crossed that line.

 

[SinisterEternity]

Meh, in someway I understand, copyright isn't something you're supposed to forget and pass over >.>
But it's sad that we'll not see our Scanlations anymore ;w;
Or yeah, but maybe the people who do that could just pay the autors before translating ? Meh. Dunno x3

 

[twocows]

It still "stealing", it's just a different kind. A definition that has to be expanded to the "limitless" internet.

Think of it this way (completely disregarding the fact that we can illegally access it online) why do we buy manga? Is it to have the paper and cover, or is it to read the contents within?

For me it's the last. The product is not just the physical part, it is the story within, it is what you read. When you read what's within the manga without it, you are reading it without the permission of the law, mangaka, and companies.

Why do they make money in the end? Because of the paper and cover? Again, no, because the people want to read what's within, the actual content of it.

When that content is available online illegally and people are reading it, it is a different kind of stealing. It is "taking" the product without paying money for it.

It may be 'intellectual', but it is very much a part of the product, and it is actually the core reason that people buy the product to begin with. Of course some people will read the manga online and then go buy it, but lets face it, even the best of us don't buy every single manga we've read online, and far too many don't buy any. What does that mean? It means lost money. People illegally accessing content that they were supposed to pay for to access to begin with.

You may not be stealing a physical product, but a sale that would have been made is lost, and the actual core of the product has been "taken"/read.

You want to tell me that's not stealing? It's stealing even if you pay for it later.

"to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch."

That is the definition for stealing. It doesn't matter whether the property is physical or not.

Why don't you go argue to the mangaka that you didn't steal it? They never gave you the permission to read it on that site, or download it. They decided that their manga would be a product and that it would take money to access from the very beginning. Their story, what they've written is their property. And by reading it online illegally you have crossed that line.

I feel that you didn't really read my post, because I already refuted one your arguments. Namely, one download == one lost sale. It is something that has been brought up in legal battles by the RIAA/MPAA and turned down by the courts. One download does not equal one lost sale for the same reasons I listed earlier.

I don't know if you've noticed, but the mangaka generally don't care about "piracy." It's only publishers that care, and that's mostly because corporations tend to focus on numbers over logical thinking. They don't see free advertising or brand loyalty, they see "Five thousand pirated copies of our work? We could have gotten that money!" It's hard to put a number on customer satisfaction.

The key word in the definition you provided of stealing is the word "take." "Take" implies that something is removed. If I take a product from a salesman, he no longer has that product to sell and has lost money. That is stealing. If I see a product a salesman is offering and make a copy of it to use for myself, I have not cost him anything, nor have I taken anything. This is piracy.

In my opinion, piracy does not hurt sales at all. It may or may not help them. However, piracy itself is a symptom of a bad business model. I again reference Steam and how much money Valve is raking in with what is essentially DRM. That is an example of a modern business model that makes piracy less relevant. Sure, it exists, but even I have to admit that I often buy games on Steam even if they're available on piracy sites because it's very convenient. Any business that still clings to an outdated business model and complains about the consequences (such as piracy) deserves no sympathy.

 

[Harmonie]

I didn't particularly mean one download always equals one lost sale, but I did mean that in a lot of cases it does.

As I was saying, you are reading the material without paying the cost that is supposed to be required to read it. There will be lost sales there. Manga volumes that would have been bought, but wouldn't be in the end.

It does balance itself out a bit in the end by people "testing" manga online and then going and buying it, but how big of a difference does that really make?

And they don't care about piracy? They don't care that the series that they're making for profit and a job is getting read illegally by people all of the time without their permission? Let me see their "permission" otherwise I don't buy that.

And of course digital distribution is needed, and I have high hopes that it is the next step that will be taken. In fact I really hope it is in the immediate future, but you can't deny that they have every right to be taking down these sites. It is illegal.

 

[Alice]

I didn't particularly mean one download always equals one lost sale, but I did mean that in a lot of cases it does.

As I was saying, you are reading the material without paying the cost that is supposed to be required to read it. There will be lost sales there. Manga volumes that would have been bought, but wouldn't be in the end.

It does balance itself out a bit in the end by people "testing" manga online and then going and buying it, but how big of a difference does that really make?

And they don't care about piracy? They don't care that the series that they're making for profit and a job is getting read illegally by people all of the time without their permission? Let me see their "permission" otherwise I don't buy that.

And of course digital distribution is needed, and I have high hopes that it is the next step that will be taken. In fact I really hope it is in the immediate future, but you can't deny that they have every right to be taking down these sites. It is illegal.

Most of the people that I know only read manga online to test manga out, then they go buy them to read the rest, or they buy manga that they've already read online, because they really like it. (I'm pretty sure if all online manga disappeared, their sales would go way down.) I'm not one of them, but that's because the price for manga is literally insane, in my opinion. I definitely will never read manga again, if I can't do it online.

And I'm pretty sure most authors wouldn't care. They get enough money as it is, and unless they're only in the business for the money, they just want other people to read, and enjoy their work. Does it matter how they do it?

 

[Netto Azure]

"There is an end to everything, to good things as well."

It pains me to announce that this is the last week of manga reading on One Manga (!!). Manga publishers have recently changed their stance on manga scanlations and made it clear that they no longer approve of it. We have decided to abide by their wishes, and remove all manga content (regardless of licensing status) from the site. The removal of content will happen gradually (so you can at least finish some of the outstanding reading you have), but we expect all content to be gone by early next week (RIP OM July '10).
So what next? We're not really sure at this point, but we have some ideas we would like to try out. Until then, the One Manga forums will remain active and we encourage all of you to continue using them. OMF has developed into a great community and it would be a shame to see that disappear.
You can also show us some love in this moment of sadness by 'liking' our brand new Facebook page. It would be nice to see just how many of you came to enjoy our 'better than peanut butter and jelly' invention.

Regardless of whether you stay with us or not, on behalf of the One Manga team, I would like to thank you all for your unwavering support over the years. Through the ups and downs you have stuck with us, and that is what kept us going.
As a certain Porky was fond of saying... That's all folks!
Time for me to go lay down and let this all sink in.
- Zabi

And with those words one of the largest manga viewing sites on the Internet closes it's doors. In what has been probably the end of an era of easy user friendly manga viewing and a great journey for me over the years, this recent crack down has been quite the surprise. Yes I knew someday this would happen but yeah when it happens the shock really is jarring.

Oh well, while I still do know some places to replace these more well known sites, the thing is some people will not have the initiative to look for it if the distribution is not an easy access for them.

*Sigh* I seriously do hope that my Senior Year passes fast, there is no income source for me to spare to support the official channels...

I'll add stuff later, but I'm still at a loss for words.
​

 

[GFA]

"There is an end to everything, to good things as well."

And with those words one of the largest manga viewing sites on the Internet closes it's doors. In what has been probably the end of an era of easy user friendly manga viewing and a great journey for me over the years, this recent crack down has been quite the surprise. Yes I knew someday this would happen but yeah when it happens the shock really is jarring.

Oh well, while I still do know some places to replace these more well known sites, the thing is some people will not have the initiative to look for it if the distribution is not an easy access for them.

*Sigh* I seriously do hope that my Senior Year passes fast, there is no income source for me to spare to support the official channels...

I'll add stuff later, but I'm still at a loss for words.
​

Not for another week it hasnt. OM is closing in a week. GO OUT AND READ WHILE YOU CAN! We still have Manga Fox for now too.

 

[J]

i feel sorry for all them western guys who can only either buy ridiculously priced volumes or import (which probably would cost more with shipping and stuff)