4th Gen Legends - Real or not?

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Manphy,Okay, How could a Legendary pokemon just pop out of an egg present day if there is not more than one but the legend continues from long ago.

That's like asking... where did the chaos that Aruceus come from originated... from? These questions can't really be answered.

Latias and Latios did have a father, It is just a rare species.

The one that gave it's life for Altomare may not necessarily be their father. Although, I do believe they can breed because they have genders.

Just rare? They do protect Altomare and do have a purpose, therefore making them not so just rare.

And please, cut Waker some slack. He's just disproving the points you made and making sure you didn't get it wrong. He has researched throughtly on this topic and I'm pretty sure he knows what he's going on about. He's just making sure we all get out pokéfacts right and we learn something.

I missed a page of this.. Ugh. Anyways, I also side with Waker. Not only is he my friend, but yeah, he speaks a bit more sense and has some proof to back up his explanations.
 
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That's like asking... where did the chaos that Aruceus come from originated... from? These questions can't really be answered.



The one that gave it's life for Altomare may not necessarily be their father. Although, I do believe they can breed because they have genders.

Just rare? They do protect Altomare and do have a purpose, therefore making them not so just rare.

And please, cut Waker some slack. He's just disproving the points you made and making sure you didn't get it wrong. He has researched throughtly on this topic and I'm pretty sure he knows what he's going on about. He's just making sure we all get out pokéfacts right and we learn something.

I missed a page of this.. Ugh. Anyways, I also side with Waker. Not only is he my friend, but yeah, he speaks a bit more sense and has some proof to back up his explanations.

I'd like to note Heatran also can be either male or female, but still can't breed. Nidorina and Nidoqueen can't breed either.

Most likely, as Pokémon evolved, some of them lost their ability to breed. And I don't mean the type of evolution we see in the games. This is why Latios, Latias, Heatran, and other legendary Pokémon (plus a few others) can't breed.
 
I think people sometimes put to much thought into it.its just a kids cartoon/game were logic is not always Evident
 
But who's to say, just because I cannot force a legendary Pokemon to get it on with a Ditto, that the legendary will not get pregnant on its own? Just because trainers are incapable of making the legendary breed, that does not necessarily mean that legendaries are unique, and that it may be possible for them to breed.

But if they could breed in the wild, they'd do so in the Day Care as well without any hesitation.

Thanks to the games, and certain episodes/movies, we have evidence that Pokémon can breed. But as far as the legendary Pokémon are concerned (not including Manaphy), since we have no way to breed them in the games, we can safely assume that they can't breed at all.

The absolute closest the anime has ever come to legendary Pokémon being in a family was Silver and its mother Lugia. However, we never saw Silver's Egg. We never were told that Lugia could or could not breed in the anime. Silver was simply there.

As such, we have no evidence whatsoever to show that Lugia can breed, but we do have evidence (the games) that shows it cannot. As such, I'm certain Silver was born or created by other means, and that the Lugia in the anime who was taking care of Silver simply adopted it.

So, to answer your question, I guess I am to say that legendary Pokémon cannot breed, and I've even presented scientific, factual evidence.

As for cats in Egypt, there's no relation to Latios and Latias there. Try again, newbie (this name only means you're new).
 
I haven't posted in a while so ill reply to a lotta things:
See? I'm smart. Gofre's smart.
Yes we are :)
We know what we're talking about.
Yes we Do :)
You, quite clearly, don't.

Anyway, I looked in the Pokédex again. Apparently, Darkrai is more active during the new moon. That's when the moon isn't shining at all, right?
Right, I did gcse astronomy (Skived the whole thing and got a d lol)
Cresselia is said to represent the crescent moon, so perhaps this can be seen as an analogy for Darkrai's Bad Dreams being lifted by Cresselia's Levitation? XD
Yep that could be possible, although this is a slight error by game freak. Because they are opposites cresselia should have represented the full moon, or Darkrai should have represented the waning cresent (Basically a backwards half moon). Ah well, perhaps its me being picky lol

Whatever i am so past this thread and the argument.
This is evidence of what waker just said

I think people sometimes put to much thought into it.its just a kids cartoon/game were logic is not always Evident
Stop wrecking our fun. Just because it was written for kids doesn't mean it was written by kids. Game freak have put a lot of time and effort into this game and wouldn't have been pleased with half-arsed story lines. Logic will still be evident.

Cats were supposed to be sacred in Egypt. Im comparing this to Latias and os
Wha? Where did that come from?

Just a few points, and its a welcome sight to see maddy post again, a voice of reason as always :)
 
Cats were supposed to be sacred in Egypt. Im comparing this to Latias and os

O.o what? How are you comparing it to Latias and Latios? You Lost me.


i think i solved why most legendaries cannot breed. These are many reason's i came up with.

1. They don't want too. because the other Heatran isn't Hot enough.
2. They don't have the Organs to do so. maybe thats why they are 'Unbreedable'.
3. Since they are kinda 'immortal' there is no need to.
we Humans breed because we need to keep our species alive.

I could be wrong. but meh

I also think that at the beginning there was just energy.

Energy cannot be created Nor Destroyed.
 
Gofre:dude if you think they never half arsed anything then you know nothing about them.And yeah theres not a deep meaning to everything.you just want there to be and just because you want it dosent mean it exists but if that kind of talk makes you happy then go ahead
 
Gofre:dude if you think they never half arsed anything then you know nothing about them.And yeah theres not a deep meaning to everything.you just want there to be and just because you want it dosent mean it exists but if that kind of talk makes you happy then go ahead

I have a friend whose father works at Game Freak. They don't half-arse anything at all.

And what evidence do you have that there's not a deep meaning to everything? None. Get off our butts.

Are you holding a grudge on me from when i first entered the threads. well anywayz thats vert insightful.

No, I'm treating you as you should be treated.

And yeah, I know it is.

Now can we stop talking about Game Freak? This thread's about legendary Pokémon. Get back on topic.

The Pokédex calls Arcanine the "Legendary Pokémon", and apparently Lucario is considered one by the anime. We know they aren't legendary at all, of course, but why do you think they'd be considered so?
 
I have a friend whose father works at Game Freak. They don't half-arse anything at all.

And what evidence do you have that there's not a deep meaning to everything? None. Get off our butts.
oh yeah the old i have a friend whos bit.give me a break.no ones on anyones butt im just giving my thought so why dont you get off my ****?
 
oh yeah the old i have a friend whos bit.give me a break.no ones on anyones butt im just giving my thought so why dont you get off my ****?

Why don't you leave the thread? Obviously the titans of the thread (myself, Maddy, Gofre) have already proven your theories wrong, you're being very uncouth, and I must admit I'm sick of seeing Mr. Macho pound the ground into flashy cotton candy.

On topic, about that radio signal from the Ruins of Alph... Remember, I had noticed that the exact same melody was used in The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages? Perhaps the ghosts in Labrynna were actually Gastlies, and the Hylian written language was sort of based on Unown?
 
Just a few points, and its a welcome sight to see maddy post again, a voice of reason as always :)

Fwaha! I'm loved :3 A voice of reason, am I? Hah.

The Pokédex calls Arcanine the "Legendary Pokémon", and apparently Lucario is considered one by the anime. We know they aren't legendary at all, of course, but why do you think they'd be considered so?

I think because that they have legends surrounding them. Legendary is a word thrown around too much, when the word legend is used, I believe it is because of the legends that have to do with the pokemon. There is a legend surrounding Lucario, that has relevance with the movie, I believe. I haven't seen the movie, so I wouldn't know.
There's a pokedex entry about Arcanine explaining something, I'm yet to look it up.

oh yeah the old i have a friend whos bit.give me a break.no ones on anyones butt im just giving my thought so why dont you get off my ****?

You don't know Waker's friend's dad who works at GameFreak so please stop insulting and degrading and whatever and get on with discussing the thread. I'm sure none of us here has time for useless and idle insults.
 
Why don't you leave the thread? Obviously the titans of the thread (myself, Maddy, Gofre) have already proven your theories wrong, you're being very uncouth, and I must admit I'm sick of seeing Mr. Macho pound the ground into flashy cotton candy.

On topic, about that radio signal from the Ruins of Alph... Remember, I had noticed that the exact same melody was used in The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages? Perhaps the ghosts in Labrynna were actually Gastlies, and the Hylian written language was sort of based on Unown?
Im sorry.could you please explain how you proven my throries wrong?cause all you said to me was i know someone blah blah blah.yeah as I thought. im done commenting but for the love of god save the high an mighty crap
 
Fwaha! I'm loved :3 A voice of reason, am I? Hah.

Next thing we know, you'll be giving friendship speeches and playing DDR in museums. :P

I think because that they have legends surrounding them. Legendary is a word thrown around too much, when the word legend is used, I believe it is because of the legends that have to do with the pokemon. There is a legend surrounding Lucario, that has relevance with the movie, I believe. I haven't seen the movie, so I wouldn't know.
There's a pokedex entry about Arcanine explaining something, I'm yet to look it up.

Lucario's relevance to Mew lies in the fact that Lucario can use Aura Sphere, and I think is the only Fighting-type who can (not counting Arceus because a creator god doesn't need to be counted for this kind of thing), which means Aura Sphere has that much more power (135 base power over the 90 everyone else would have).

You don't know Waker's friend's dad who works at GameFreak so please stop insulting and degrading and whatever and get on with discussing the thread. I'm sure none of us here has time for useless and idle insults.

And verily thy God saith unto thee, "THOU ART PWNT!"

Im sorry.could you please explain how you proven my throries wrong?cause all you said to me was i know someone blah blah blah.yeah as I thought. im done commenting but for the love of god save the high an mighty crap

Why don't you just read the rest of the thread? Also, I don't lie.
 
Why don't you just read the rest of the thread? Also, I don't lie.

HEAR HEAR! We have explained most of the theory's that everyone has... from about page 16 onwards, I believe. Go read it and have the time of your life before you start accusing us of not knowing what we're talking about. We've done the research, we've looked it up, we've tested our theroys. Seen Waker's mega long post that explains, like, well, everything? I think not.
 
Kanto introduced Moltres, Zapdos, Articuno, Mew, and Mewtwo. Johto introduced Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Lugia, Celebi, and Ho-Oh. Hoenn introduced Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Latias, Latios, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi, and Deoxys. And now we have Sinnoh, which introduced Regigigas, Giratina, Darkrai, Arceus, Mesprit, Uxie, Azelf, Dialga, Palkia, Manaphy, Phione, Cresselia, and Heatran.

Kanto and Johto are next to one another, Hoenn elsewhere, and Sinnoh even farther, probably in the opposite direction.

We can discount Deoxys and Mewtwo as far as legends go. Deoxys is just an alien virus that mutated, and Mewtwo was created by humans. They're just incredibly strong Pokémon, and nothing more.

Zapdos, Moltres, and Articuno represent the forces of lightning, fire, and ice. As Prof. Oak stated in The Power of One, an electrically-charged steam current has the power to flood the planet. This is basically what the "Beast of the Sea" was, caused by an imbalance of power between the trinity of forces. Lugia, having ocean-related powers in combination with being a Psychic type, allowed it to calm the birds. Not on its own, of course; Ash needed to get the orbs from each island and place them in a single shrine. I suspect that these orbs were charged with the elemental powers of the respective birds, and the sound waves from Melody's ocarina or Lugia's cry caused the radiation from those orbs to harmonize, which in turn would harmonize the birds themselves, restoring the balance and "calming the 'Beast of the Sea'". Such a form of radiation would only affect Articuno, Moltres, and Zapdos in this way. It would be just like light from a flashlight to anyone else.

In Ecruteak City, we learn that Lugia and Ho-Oh lived there atop twin towers in ancient times, but human greed and lust for power chased them away. If I remember correctly, the Tin Tower is where Lugia lived, and the Brass Tower (now the Burnt Tower) was Ho-Oh's perch. Lugia probably evolved (not in the Pokémon way) to adapt to the ocean, thus why you find it in the Whirl Islands. Ho-Oh probably decided to return to the Tin Tower, since it was the only tower standing and sensed your kindness.

Again in Ecruteak, you learn that Ho-Oh has a connection to Entei, Raikou, and especially Suicune. It seems to me that the legendary dog trio are judges, racing across the land not just because their power is incredible (and yet they're all BL/OU? What the hell?), but also because they were watching us humans. Then you come along, capture/defeat all three, and Ho-Oh understands that humans aren't beyond redemption, and thus flies to Tin Tower and awaits you.

Speaking of Suicune, there's a connection with the Unown here. They never were considered like this before, but perhaps Unown can be a legendary Pokémon? Also, if you've seen Spell of the Unown, you know that the Unown come from an alternate dimension... Perhaps the same dimension Giratina hails from? Maybe the Unown were created so that humans could better understand Pokémon simply by spelling certain things out.

Mew, being the ancestor of all Pokémon, can learn every move that can be taught by humans or learned on its own. It can also learn every other move, but without a method, there's no way to demonstrate this. Mewtwo was created by humans using Mew's DNA, but because they capitalized on power, Mewtwo lost the ability to learn all moves like Mew can.

In ancient times, the Hoenn Region's legends tell of a Pokémon who created oceans and a Pokémon who carved mountains. Kyogre and Groudon, the "weather ubers", are these, and they apparently conflict in every way. Apparently, the Red and Blue Orbs allow the wielder's heart to speak to, perhaps control, these Pokémon. Team Aqua's leader's heart was corrupted by a lust for power, thus driving Kyogre berserk (as seen in the anime). Pikachu's heart was pure, so Groudon was able to stop Kyogre.

However, it can also be said that Kyogre and Groudon can reject the Orbs' power and return to the Cave of Origin, their apparent birthplace. As shown in Pokémon Emerald Version, Rayquaza can force both Kyogre and Groudon into a stalemate and send them away, which is probably why the Air Lock ability is only Rayquaza's. Whenever Groudon and Kyogre meet, a huge battle between them ensues. Apparently, this is not because they hate one another, but because such a clash needs to happen in a certain spot to create a certain environment.

Rayquaza is known as the Sky High Pokémon, and rightly so, for it makes its home beyond human eyesight in the ozone layer. This is why Rayquaza was the first to encounter Deoxys, who mutated because of the ozone it passed through. Rayquaza recognized Deoxys as the alien virus it was, and thus attacked it. Thinking that the virus was eliminated, Rayquaza returned to the ozone layer. Years later, Deoxys reawoke and started looking for the other Deoxys. Rayquaza sensed this and sped off in an intercept course, making sure to eradicate the virus this time for good. However, when a certain city's security system goes haywire, it's the twin Deoxys who defend Rayquaza. It's in this moment that Rayquaza realizes the mutation wasn't just a physical one, and from human kindness, both Deoxys have learned much. Rayquaza ceases its mission and returns to the sky, and both Deoxys, knowing they don't belong but taking the memories with them, return to space.

Celebi, the Time Travel Pokémon and guardian of the forest, is said not to appear in war-torn times. Also, in Japan, Pokémon Gold, Silver, and Crystal Versions had a side quest involving the G.S. Ball (which appeared in the anime as well). The player would take the G.S. Ball to the shrine in the Ilex Forest in order to meet Celebi. With this information, it can be said that the G.S. Ball can only be opened by someone pure of heart in a time of peace. Kurt, the Apricorn Ball maker, couldn't even dent the G.S. Ball. That's not to say he's not pure of heart, but it does mean that perhaps, like with Lugia's legend, there was a chosen person to open the G.S. Ball. Also, in Pokémon Colosseum, the Time Flute calls Celebi to fully purify a Shadow Pokémon at the Relic Stone in Agate Village. Celebi does this by apparently combining its time travel and psychic abilities to make the Pokémon remember its happiest moments, as well as to see what you've done to help the world become a better place. You've noticed that the Relic Stone has a circular hole in the top, right? Perhaps the G.S. Ball could also be used here?

Jirachi awakens once for a week every millennium. I'd hate to take a nap for that long only to be awake for a week. Anyway, Jirachi doesn't really relate to any other Pokémon, it's just there for you to stick a note on and cry since you most likely won't live long enough to see the wish fulfilled.

Heatran, the volcanic Pokémon found in Stark Mountain has only one possible connection, which is to Entei, who makes volcanoes erupt by barking. The Pokédex doesn't show any connection. However, by talking to people in the games, I found someone who told me a few things. In the Survival Area, the old man who lives in the house adjacent to and on the left of the Pokémon Center says this:

"Let me tell you about the volcano named Stark Mountain. That volcano dates to when Sinnoh was made by the melding of time and space. Fiery lava spilled out and pooled, and then it turned into a Pokémon. It's said the Magma Stone was used to keep the Pokémon under control. Over time, the Pokémon turned into the volcano, according to legend."

According to what this old man says and this trailer for Dialga VS Palkia VS Darkrai, Dialga and Palkia had a fight, which shaped Stark Mountain. You'll notice near the beginning of that video that the town is in a mountainous region. In the games, the island with the Battle Tower is also very mountainous. I suspect this town is located on that island, but wasn't included in the games. The lava became Heatran, which should be obvious, considering that Heatran is found inside Stark Mountain. As for the Magma Stone, that would be interesting to research next.

If I'm right about this, Dialga and Palkia have clashed before the events of that movie. What isn't explained is how Darkrai got there, since the one you encounter in the games is on New Moon Island, which is mainly forest, not to mention you have your Bad Dreams in Canalave.

Latios and Latias roam the Hoenn Region, apparently in a guardianship role. This is especially true in Pokémon Heroes, when Altomare is attacked by a pair of agents from Team Rocket. They apparently have no connection to others.

Shaymin is apparently just a guardian of flowers and nature, who appears only to those who are truly thankful towards Pokémon and nature for their beauty and mutual uses.

Darkrai and Cresselia appear to oppose one another in the same way light and darkness do. Darkrai's Dark Void traps someone into sleep, while Bad Dreams turns dreams to nightmares. However, this state can be reversed by the Lunar Wing, which is apparently a feather from Cresselia's pink curves in spite of its own green color. I assume that the Lunar Wing becomes green after dropping from Cresselia's body, much like a branch will become brown in the center instead of green because it's no longer attached to the tree it came from. However, Cresselia and Darkrai also work together, being essentially Moon and Shadow, which always go hand-in-hand anyway.

Regigigas is a very interesting Pokémon, because it's bigger than a blue whale (look at the trailer for the movie after Dialga VS Palkia VS Darkrai). Now look at it in Pokémon Battle Revolution, and Dialga's bigger. What the hell? Well, anyway, Regigigas apparently worked together with Groudon, or at least cleaned up its mess, pulling the continents together. This is probably how Regirock was formed, what with all that rock from everywhere being thrown around. Regice was probably formed from the earliest polar ice caps' ice, and Registeel was probably made from metal found in a meteorite that Regigigas snatched out of the sky as it fell. Regigigas would shape these three Pokémon, give them life, and put them in what would become Hoenn as totems, or perhaps guardians (see Lucario and the Mystery of Mew). By capturing all three "totems", bringing them to Sinnoh, and going down into the Snowpoint Temple, one could reawaken Regigigas. I'm sure the next movie will shed more light on Regigigas, Shaymin, and Giratina. Until then, we can only speculate on this one.

Giratina, the only Ghost/Dragon Pokémon to exist, who lives in an alternate dimension. This one's really interesting to me, because it's mainly defensive. I'd guess then that Giratina acts in the Pokémon world much like Cerberus would in the Greek mythological version of the Underworld. It's a guardian who keeps the dead and the living seperate. It can apparently disappear into darkness at will, just like Darkrai can, given the Shadow Force move only it can learn. There appears to be a relation to Shaymin and Regigigas as well.

That leaves Arceus, Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf, Palkia, and Dialga. Sinnoh's legends state that an Egg appeared in a vortex of chaos, and from it Arceus was born. Arceus created Dialga and Palkia to create time and space, then created Azelf, Uxie, and Mesprit to create emotion, will, and knowledge. Arceus then went to sleep, apparently in the Hall of Origin, an area in Sinnoh directly above the Spear Pillar where dimensions would shift, allowing Arceus to appear.

With the creation of time, space, will, knowledge, and emotion, it seems to me that these five would create Regigigas (who would in turn create Regirock, Regice, and Registeel as guardians), Groudon, Rayquaza, and Kyogre (who would shape the pieces of the world and guard them, with Regigigas putting those pieces together). To keep the balance, Dialga and Palkia would leave for the alternate dimension with Arceus, while Mesprit, Uxie, and Azelf would sleep in the Sinnoh Region. Arceus apparently left Plates behind, telling its story so as not to be forgotten. If that's correct, then it's only natural that Arceus has the Multitype ability. Because those Plates came from Arceus, putting them back on Arceus would unlock a change. And yes, Arceus would have to be a "god" in order to create a universe and other "gods" to create other forces and guard them.

Since no world could have existed before time and space did, it's perfectly possible that Mew was the first Pokémon who actually originated from this planet, and from Mew, the rest of the Pokémon not mentioned in this post.

And there you go. Until the 11th movie is released, and WE HAVE SUBTITLES FOR IT THAT I CAN USE, this is what governs all theories.

It should be added to the first post, in my opinion.
 
I think everyone's looking waaaaay too deep into this. -_-

How is Gamefreak expected to "make a volcano erupt" every time Entei roars? Same goes for Lugia's "control of the seas" (except in the 2nd movie, which I loved when I was younger, and in which Lugia pulled all sorts of crazy ****).

Finally, though I can't speak for Diamond, I'm not going to question Palkia's control over space, as you can see **** distorting when it's first summoned.
 
First the rants:
Gofre:dude if you think they never half arsed anything then you know nothing about them.
And you know what exactly? Have you been on a tour of Game Freak studios and seen them sitting there playing pokemon rather than developing? No. That because pokemon is possibly the biggest franchise to ever venture into the gaming world. Game freak concentrate almost soley on this series and wouldn't put out anything they weren't happy with. Games developers work for perfection.
And yeah theres not a deep meaning to everything.you just want there to be and just because you want it dosent mean it exists but if that kind of talk makes you happy then go ahead
Wow, bet you're the life and soul at a party. Stop putting people down, just because you're extremely depressive doesn't mean we all have to be

I think everyone's looking waaaaay too deep into this. -_-
Like i said up there ^^^
How is Gamefreak expected to "make a volcano erupt" every time Entei roars?
Its a game.
Same goes for Lugia's "control of the seas"
Its a game
(except in the 2nd movie, which I loved when I was younger, and in which Lugia pulled all sorts of crazy ****).
He can, cuz thats a cartoon which is even crazier than a game.

Now the nice bits:
Fwaha! I'm loved :3 A voice of reason, am I? Hah.
Damn right! compared to some of these flamers, me you and waker may as well be philosiphers :).

Obviously the titans of the thread (myself, Maddy, Gofre)
That would be me, posting on literally every page :)
I must admit I'm sick of seeing Mr. Macho pound the ground into flashy cotton candy.
I agree, its giving me epilepsy :(

And now for on-topic:
The Pokédex calls Arcanine the "Legendary Pokémon", and apparently Lucario is considered one by the anime. We know they aren't legendary at all, of course, but why do you think they'd be considered so?

I think it was due to the context. Looking back at 1st and 2nd gen entries, it states that arcanine is a legendary pokemon in china Cats were worshiped in egypt, even though they were completely mundane. Perhaps they saw it as representative of their god. Its also states in an ancient picture its speed may have interperated as 'godly by ancient, less civilised cultures. Finally its bark conveys a sense of magesty perhaps they saw this as divine power.

Not to mention its a 6 foot tall tiger/dog thing :)

There done :)
 
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I think it was due to the context. Looking back at 1st and 2nd gen entries, it states that arcanine is a legendary pokemon in china Cats were worshiped in egypt, even though they were completely mundane. Perhaps they saw it as representative of their god. Its also states in an ancient picture its speed may have interperated as 'godly by ancient, less civilised cultures. Finally its bark conveys a sense of magesty perhaps they saw this as divine power.

Not to mention its a 6 foot tall tiger/dog thing :)

That's "majestic".

But yeah, I see where you're coming from.

I'm postponing my hike into Stark Mountain for now. I need to have a battle team that's truly ready for anything. There's no telling what I'll find in there besides Heatran.

As for the Magma Stone, it appears to be a myth, or perhaps part of Stark Mountain now. I've check multiple Pokémon Diamond Version and Pokémon Pearl Version guides, and there's no trace of a Magma Stone. I guess my eventual trip into Stark Mountain will shed some more insight on Heatran.
 
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