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Article: Let’s discuss Pokémon US/UM: Theories and Speculation

User19sq

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    Everyone's speculating that these games could be sequels... in spite of Masuda himself saying they take place in the Alternate World. But anything can happen.
     

    Vragon

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    Something I noticed in the trailer is namely something with the name. Since Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are the titles, and we have Necrozma, who in the game was detected as a UB but wasn't really one along with Solgaleo and Lunala being Ultra Beast technically, I'm curious as to if Necrozma could do more. I mean theoretically if this being of Necrozma can "plate" himself on the two legendaries of Alola and they are UB's perhaps he can do more than that.

    There's also the whole thing in the original games to consider
    Spoilers:
    Spoiler:


    Course I'm probably entirely wrong and I don't want to overhype speculation again like last time, so I'll leave it there.
     

    shadowmoon522

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    I think that i go with the games being an alternate world/story because it was said so.

    i think i should note this from gamefaqs
    Let’s discuss Pokémon US/UM: Theories and Speculation

    also theres more to it then just that
    https://www.pokemon-sunmoon-cn.com/usum/sc/

    剧情及系统双双进化的另一个《太阳/月亮》的故事,等着所有玩家一起来体验!
    translation
    Story and the system of both evolution of another "sun / moon" story, waiting for all the players to experience!
    the
    "another" part can also be translated into "other"
    the whole "alternative" thing seems to be a translation error
    i don't think these game are sequels or remakes, but rather a side story like xd & gale of darkness where or for an even better example like what a certain scientific railgun is to a certain magical index
     

    Alexander18

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    USUM are not side games. XD and gale of darkness has nothing to do with main series games. I think the story is an alternate story with extra things in it.
     

    pkmin3033

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    There is a difference between being a side game - or a spinoff - and a side story. US/UM are part of the core series of titles, but the only way they could be considered side games to Sun/Moon is in respect to their story...possibly.

    It's a question of wording, but the Index/Railgun analogy in this instance is one that works the best - a separate story set in the same world, with common threads between them but otherwise no connection. Although calling them side stories might give the wrong impression, because presumably they will be stories of a similar scope. I suppose it depends on how you want to word it.
     

    shadowmoon522

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    XD and gale of darkness has nothing to do with main series games.
    Let’s discuss Pokémon US/UM: Theories and Speculation

    i should also note that the ranger games also take place in the same universe as the main series games. they might not have much in way of interaction with the main series, but they still take place in the same universe. the events of Colosseum & pokemon ranger take place in the time gap gen I/III/ORAS and Gen II/IV and XD takes place about two years after Gen II/Gen IV.

    also, if you discount Colosseum & XD as being canon, you mind as well discount all the remakes & pseudo-remakes(makes more sense calling them that then "3ed versions") as well king the only games canon being RGGSRSDPBWB2W2XYSM
    this would also mean that US & UM are not canon either, nor are most of the event only pokemon.
     

    Alexander18

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    Let’s discuss Pokémon US/UM: Theories and Speculation

    i should also note that the ranger games also take place in the same universe as the main series games. they might not have much in way of interaction with the main series, but they still take place in the same universe. the events of Colosseum & pokemon ranger take place in the time gap gen I/III/ORAS and Gen II/IV and XD takes place about two years after Gen II/Gen IV.

    also, if you discount Colosseum & XD as being canon, you mind as well discount all the remakes & pseudo-remakes(makes more sense calling them that then "3ed versions") as well king the only games canon being RGGSRSDPBWB2W2XYSM
    this would also mean that US & UM are not canon either, nor are most of the event only pokemon.
    Wrong. Spin off games are games not made by game freak. Third versions and remakes are made by game freak so they are main series games. XD and gales of darkness are not made by GF so they are spin offs.
     

    pkmin3033

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    I think it fairly obvious that, wording as to the content of these games aside, they are going to be core series titles - the names alone tell us as much. That the games will also be set in Alola, and have the same gameplay as the other core series titles, is further proof of this.

    ...in any case, spinoffs are games not set in the same universe as the main titles, side games are those which are but are not considered core titles for various reasons - developer, gameplay, system, etc. It's fairly easy to differentiate between them.
     

    shadowmoon522

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    Wrong. Spin off games are games not made by game freak.
    your forgetting about Creatures, Inc. pokemon has always been a joint venture between Creatures, Inc, GF & nintendo. each one of them holds 1/3ed the rights to pokemon and as such each of them holds the right to decide whats canon or not. while gamefreak may not have been directly involved in the orre games & ranger games, Creatures, Inc. was.

    also, we can't count out that the data for games that had yet to be released at the time was also in it
    as well as the fact that masuda had influences over Colosseum
    not to mention that if ranger isn't canon, neither is manaphy. part of ranger's story directly connects to the 4th gen games
    Let’s discuss Pokémon US/UM: Theories and Speculation

    Let’s discuss Pokémon US/UM: Theories and Speculation


    pokemon games basically fall under the "everythings canon until contradiction" rule. theres nothing in any of the games to rule out XD gale of darkness or the ranger series from being canon.
    hell, the games due reference to orre via the whole met in a distant land thing
    Third versions and remakes are made by game freak so they are main series games. XD and gales of darkness are not made by GF so they are spin offs.
    tell that to yellow, its closer to the anime then the games. also you missed a good bit of context
     

    Alexander18

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    your forgetting about Creatures, Inc. pokemon has always been a joint venture between Creatures, Inc, GF & nintendo. each one of them holds 1/3ed the rights to pokemon and as such each of them holds the right to decide whats canon or not. while gamefreak may not have been directly involved in the orre games & ranger games, Creatures, Inc. was.

    also, we can't count out that the data for games that had yet to be released at the time was also in it
    as well as the fact that masuda had influences over Colosseum
    not to mention that if ranger isn't canon, neither is manaphy. part of ranger's story directly connects to the 4th gen games
    Let’s discuss Pokémon US/UM: Theories and Speculation

    Let’s discuss Pokémon US/UM: Theories and Speculation


    pokemon games basically fall under the "everythings canon until contradiction" rule. theres nothing in any of the games to rule out XD gale of darkness or the ranger series from being canon.
    hell, the games due reference to orre via the whole met in a distant land thing

    tell that to yellow, its closer to the anime then the games. also you missed a good bit of context

    Ranger and others are spin-offs and not canon. Yellow, Emerald and Platinum are main series games and are canon. This is fact.
     

    shadowmoon522

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    Ranger and others are spin-offs and not canon. Yellow, Emerald and Platinum are main series games and are canon. This is fact.

    there has been nothing official stating that orre & the ranger games are not canon to the main series.
    so "fact" is highly subjective as there is no way to confirm or deny whether or not their canon, though there are more then a few hints pointing to them being so.
    also

    also, if you discount Colosseum & XD as being canon, you mind as well discount all the remakes & pseudo-remakes(makes more sense calling them that then "3ed versions") as well king the only games canon being RGGSRSDPBWB2W2XYSM
    this would also mean that US & UM are not canon either, nor are most of the event only pokemon.

    technically though, every game outside of red & green are spin offs.
    honestly, we should be calling the orre games & ranger games sidequels
     

    Altairis

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    You guys know it can be a side story without being a side GAME or spinoff, right?

    I wonder why people are directly ignoring the information we're being given? They said it was another story in the world of Sun and Moon, I don't understand why there's speculation. They literally told us what it is.
     

    Alexander18

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    there has been nothing official stating that orre & the ranger games are not canon to the main series.
    so "fact" is highly subjective as there is no way to confirm or deny whether or not their canon, though there are more then a few hints pointing to them being so.
    also



    technically though, every game outside of red & green are spin offs.
    honestly, we should be calling the orre games & ranger games sidequels
    Actually games like orre and ranger are non canon since they are spin-offs. And no, main games after red/green are not spin offs. They are canon to the series and are main games. That is fact.
     

    shadowmoon522

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    Actually games like orre and ranger are non canon since they are spin-offs. And no, main games after red/green are not spin offs. They are canon to the series and are main games. That is fact.

    you keep reading what i'm saying, but your clearly not even understanding the context.
    you also don't even know what the definition of spin off is

    In media, a spin-off[1] (or spinoff[2]) is a radio program, television program, video game, film, or any narrative work, derived from one or more already existing works, that focuses, in particular, in more detail on one aspect of that original work (e.g. a particular topic, character, or an event).
    in other words, just because its a spin off, you can't discount the possibility of it being canon.
    yugioh gx was a spin off, but it still took place in the same universe as the second series anime
    same thing with tourchwood(doctor who) and NCIS(JAG). Frasier(Cheers).

    its canon til one of 2 things occur
    1) something in the game itself or the game series it spawned from actually confirms it not to be canon.
    2) someone who has worked on either project has stated it to be non-canon

    so far we have yet to have either of these conditions occur to prove either game as being non-canon.

    also, Colo and XD have the same style RPG as the main series, while all spin off games have a different style of RPG. its one of the biggest things your ignoring.

    additionally, since your obviously not clear on this:
    Let’s discuss Pokémon US/UM: Theories and Speculation
     

    Alexander18

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    you keep reading what i'm saying, but your clearly not even understanding the context.
    you also don't even know what the definition of spin off
    Actually you don't. A spin off game is a game that is not made by GF and is not part of the main series games. That is the definition of spin off game. This is fact. I know what a spin off is.
     

    bobandbill

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    Going to caution anyone using a wiki like bulbapedia as a source of what is a spinoff or side game or whatnot - anyone can edit such pages after all.

    USUM is a main series game, I can't see it being something like Colosseum and XD (which by the way, while it largely used the same mechanics as the Game Freak titles, was developed by Genius Sonority). I feel that an adequate definition of spinoff to Pokemon is "any Pokemon game not developed by Game Freak/Creatures".

    But I digress. Given USUM shares Sun and Moon in its name, ala Black 2 and White 2 did for Black and White, along with (to some degree) SM's cover legendaries, and its developer - it's a main series title.

    As for canon - well, you can have multiple canons. You wouldn't say the Mystery Dungeon games necessarily are part of the same canon as the main Pokemon titles (and especially given a different developer there too), but you can treat everything in MD as its own canon. Likewise with the anime and manga. They're all officially made, and so are all canon in their own way. Heck, ORAS is officially a separate canon to RSE - a different timeline and world.
     

    shadowmoon522

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    USUM is a main series game, I can't see it being something like Colosseum and XD (which by the way, while it largely used the same mechanics as the Game Freak titles, was developed by Genius Sonority). I feel that an adequate definition of spinoff to Pokemon is "any Pokemon game not developed by Game Freak/Creatures".
    gamefreak doesn't hold the entirety of the pokemon copyright, the copyright is jointly held with gamefreak nintendo & creatures. everyone is so quick to think gamefreak has all the sway on the main series canon, but creatures & nintendo has the same right to decide upon canon. hell, iwata worked on colluseum & XD and he worked on most of the main series games til his ascension
     

    Alexander18

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    I still believe main series games are separate from spin off games. There be rare occasions where you can transfer certain eggs and pokemon to a main series game but a spin-off is still a spin off.
     
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