Levelling Up?

[Dragon]

I was wondering what you guys think about a general level up system, whenever you play games such as MMOs, or any other game that has a level up system (besides Pokemon).

First of all, do you like the concept of "leveling up"? Does it teach you things, beyond the aspects on how to actually play the game? Because, some people have been wondering that, as you level up, your knowledge and experience also kind of "levels up" with the game, as the character in question goes stronger. However, with my experience, some games with a level up system require me to grind so much just to meet with the game's standard expectations, and.. sometimes I'm just a little iffy about that.

And that brings me to my next point - do you feel that a level up system isn't quite necessary for games that come to mind? I've heard that sometimes, people don't like the level-up system in WoW, and hey, sometimes I don't really much care for the level up system in League of Legends.

Well, just to re-literate the topic of this thread, What do you think of a level-up system? Do you feel that they are unnecessary for particular games that come to mind? Would you say that leveling up is worth it in most, or just in few cases? Any other thoughts?

 

[JJ Styles]

I'll just keep this short and clean, and I'll leave my full opinion for now.

I generally like any system of progression within any game of sorts since it gives me that sense of fulfillment when it comes to playing said game. Heck, Action games need their own progression system since a lot of people just have realized that in many action oriented games (First Person shooter, 3rd person shooter, hack n slash, etc), its possible to bypass some action sections by simply running away and heading straight to the exit.

Doom 2016 was quite the surprise when it was introduced with its own progression/upgrade system, and that was something that I really loved about that game other than the good ole' Doom experience.

League's "leveling" system is already quite under questions within the community especially with the bigger focus on the competitive aspect of the game. At the time before, like the classic or good ole days of league pre-Esports era, people thought that the leveling system was a novel idea that somehow helped separate players from each other. But as time went on, everyone just realized that the "REAL" game in League of Legends starts at LVL30 where you have access to the full Masteries and Runes, and have unlocked a bunch of champions.

 

[Arsenic]

I'm going ti keep this really short.

It's good or bad more depending on how it is implemented.

You have games that make it seem like the actual game is the level up grind (like most j-games imo) where for the majority of the game, you just grind XP, randomly go out and slaughter hordes of enemies just for the sake of leveling. You find yourself wandering a lot, looking for more grind... That's the wrong way to do it.

The right way is when you level up just by playing the game/story through ample amounts of quests quests, enemies you're given a reason to fight, and of course the story content. You have an objective. Go here, do this, F**k up anythng between the two. You don't feel like your grinding enemies just for the sake of XP as much...

That's my two cents anyways... Dunno if it actually makes as much sense as it does in my head.

 

[JJ Styles]

To answer a friendly question.. i feel like a progression system is now a necessity for games these days as I feel that a lot of people want to feel like they are achieving something. Whether it be just for some points, or watching their main avatar or protagonist grow stronger or something. Whether it be some cool new things... A progression system.. yeah.. Remember the days when we cared about high scores? Or then the times when all we wanted was to just see the next thing that will happen..

I'm not saying that its an absolute necessity but its a huge help especially for those who are thinking of making a game themselves. I'd put my own system of progression in a future game that I'll be making other than it being a joyful slaughterfest with some excelsor story and satire.

I was playing Halo 1 just a few weeks ago and I felt like okay, i get it. This is a game from an olden olden age. But playing it now, I feel like I wish i had some way in making Master Chief stronger with the enemies I've been killing.

A nice non-multiplayer example of a game that has a decent in-game story campaign and some sort of progression system is Rainbow Six Vegas 2 (its what i have). The story is there, and you earn points and such for doing some pretty badass things, and the points you are earning help you unlock extra weapons and gadgets that not only you can use during the single player campaign, but also things that carry over to multiplayer. Lovely stuff i say.

 

[Judge Mandolore Shepard]

When it comes to leveling up, I find I like the system in video games. Course some games have more than one level up system. I will use DC Universe Online as an example. The first level up system is the normal gain exp to level your character up, level cap for that is 30. The second level up system is the combat rating (CR) one, which getting better gear increases it. As an example of these two systems, I will use my character Robo Lass. In DCUO, her current level is 30, while her Combat Rating is 127.

 

[Lusus]

I don't like leveling up in single player games. It might feel good and rewarding at first, but most games with focus on leveling end up a grind because usually they will restrict your progress in one way or another. For example in most RPGs, I have a lot of fun during the early game, but as soon as you hit levels for example 25 in Pokemon you need to grind more and more.

Only leveling system I actually like in a game is the one in Fire Emblem (though there are probably other games like that) because it feels like it rewards you for playing the game properly, and doesn't really feel like grinding even if it can be sometimes (but rarely).

Also I feel like the leveling system is just a staple "we need something so the players feel accomplished" system nowdays outside of RPGs and MMORPGs, both in singleplayer and multiplayer games. But there are a lot of ways to make the player feel accomplished without making them grind a boring system that most of the time is just a number that doesn't do anything anyway. I had a lot of fun hunting down the Assassin Seals in AC2, hunting animals to craft better equipment in AC4, even in Warframe which is all about grinding the material reward feels way better than levels. And even when it's not about collectibles, giving the player a lot of tools that are hard to use to maximum efficiency is great, not only does it give the player a lot of different ways to play the game, but it also allows them to feel a lot of accomplishment as they get better and better at using these tools.

 

[Jinjer]

i suppose you're going to have to put things within context when designing the game

i mean it can be argued that the need for having "rpg elements" can be done away with if the player gets a consistent flow of upgrades or tools for her to use without putting them all in a system of tiers

 

[JJ Styles]

Back up post!

I want to cite the likes of Devil May Cry, God of War, Wolfenstein The New Order, and even the Doom 2016 Reboot as fine examples of in-game progression systems that are quiet robust without being a complete necessity to progress or just playing the damn game...

The games I've mentioned are the games that one can play without really bothering with any of the upgrades, which is why NURs (No Upgrade Runs) of these games exist. (Oh man, Doom 2016 NUR on just Ultraviolence difficulty is going to be a tough one, I'm currently doing a NUR on Wolfenstein the New Order). But the upgrade systems for these games are done through either farming currency from slaughtered foes (DMC and God of War) or aside from slaughtering foes, doing achievements (Wolf TNO and Dewm 2016), and one thing common in all of the games I have mentioned, FINDING SECRETS!!!. The thing with these kinds of upgrade/progression systems is that they keep the combat and the fighting fresh for the player. The player gets an incentive or a privilege to enjoy a particular style or setup to further enhance the adventure and keep the power flowing. You don't necessarly need every upgrade in the game to finish the game, but it definitely helps with the enhanced levels of ass whoopin especially when you're running around with your favorite set of particular perks/talents/skills and the weapons that you've upgraded.

The point i'd like to make is that in an action game, the purpose of an in-game progression system for the player to use and abuse is to keep the diversity of the combat going. To me, that's one of the most important aspects of having these kinds of progression or upgrade systems. You are able to consistently improve on a particular style of combat that you like, or try out a style that you might like later especially during the later parts of a game's respective campaign. The combat and the ass whoopings that you deliver are rewarded through the game's respective upgrade system. To me, this keeps me entertained. I would never really get bored with the game or get bored with slaughtering the legions and legions of enemies because I know that I'll be rewarded the more i do it.

The best part really is that these upgrades are optional. One who is THAT MUCH OF A PURIST can opt to not go for any of these upgrades and just play the game for what it is. The games I've mentioned DO NOT restrict the player in progress for not having the upgrades since what still matters is that you fight and slaughter the enemies through the mechanics, the gunplay (or in DMC and GWar's case, Sword play), and knowing how to handle the situations at hand. But again, one may be missing out on the other enjoyable aspect of the game which is building a particular style or loadout for your character. There's always something new for the player to try out. And to me, I really find that enjoyable in an action game. it surely beats just fighting things and not getting any real reward for it other than a visceral presentation of one's victorious conquests.

To me, I still stand by my point. For an action game to feel more fresh and rewarding to the player for what an action game is (obviously fighting, battling, and defeating opposition), a system of reward and progression is quite a luxury to have. A Luxury that greatly improves the experience for the player for the endless fights that one gets into in playing an action game.

 

[EC]

I mean, part of the reason why the Call Of Duty series is my favorite FPS shooter is because of the leveling and prestige system. Black Ops 3 was the best yet. Hit max prestige? Keep going to level 1,000.

 

[Reyzadren]

I think the level-up system is outdated and not necessary. As one plays through a game, the enemies could have more variety or could use more complex tactics instead.

Progression for players is stupid imo, just give me everything I need at the beginning and let me choose. Unlocking "better" skills or continuously adding stats is a waste of time.

 

[machomuu]

I think the level-up system is outdated and not necessary. As one plays through a game, the enemies could have more variety or could use more complex tactics instead.

Progression for players is stupid imo, just give me everything I need at the beginning and let me choose. Unlocking "better" skills or continuously adding stats is a waste of time.

Huh...that actually contrasts pretty well with what I was gonna say.

I think leveling is a pretty good way to give the player a consistent, usually meaningful sense of reward, as well as a constant goal to work towards. I think one big problem with a lot of games is that their length vs how much new content is introduced overtime is pretty heavily imbalanced. When the player does the same thing over and over until they get to the credits, well, they probably just won't get to the credits because the experience will have likely run its course early on, usually leading to the game hinging on its other aspects to be strong enough to grip the player after the fact, and whether that actually happens depends on the game and, following that, the person.

I'm not saying that levels are the only way to do this, of course, but even really tight design can be an untouched dream if the player gets too tired of the game itself before they can really get into it. Progression's just a great way of motivating them to that point, and that feeling of reward is often fun (and satisfying) in itself.