Modern Racism: Officer Wilson Walks

[Nah]

Actually the problem here is racism and stems from the fact that WHITE people can shoot up a theatre and bomb a city and still be taken in ALIVE without a single scratch on them, but when a black person allegedly robs a store he deserved to be murdered by police. And Darren Wilson admitted that he didn't even know anything of a robbery and he was stopping Michael Brown and his friend for jaywalking. And when five eye witnesses say the same exact thing about Michael Brown running away from the officer. And still being shot. And the official autopsy supports this like..... or were Wilson's "injuries" that convincing??? This is the last thing I'm gonna say on this and I'm not even gonna respond to Kameken sorry. At least I know who to avoid on here now!!

I don't think that anyone here can deny that racism and racism in law enforcement isn't still a problem in America. It is still a problem. I think the issue that some people are having with this case is that it may or may not be all that clear (people can interpret evidence in different ways ya know) whether or not this particular case is fueled by racism. This isn't the 1950's anymore; not every single white American is a racist/white supremacist these days. No one who is not racist wants to be painted with the same brush as actual racists, but there's this general feel you get from some people in threads like these that some people believe that all white Americans are racist, simply because they were born white.

But since no one gives two ****s about that, I'm going to ask y'all this question again because I'm genuinely curious to hear the answers:

Who here actually read all 4500+ pages of the grand jury report?

 

[Sir Codin]

Who here actually read all 4500+ pages of the grand jury report?

Ooh, is this a test? Because I know the answer, I really do.

Absolutly. F***ing. NO ONE.

 

[Kanzler]

The problem here stems from the fact that not everyone has the same opinion on what a "lawful order" is.

That's the thing though, what a "lawful order" is shouldn't be an opinion. It's a big part of why these confrontations occur in the first place. Lack of respect for authority, especially for police, and all that.

Who here actually read all 4500+ pages of the grand jury report?

I could probably legit read that, beginning on the 18th. I'll get back to you guys on that by Christmas, lol.

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

Actually the problem here is racism and stems from the fact that WHITE people can shoot up a theatre and bomb a city and still be taken in ALIVE without a single scratch on them, but when a black person allegedly robs a store he deserved to be murdered by police. And Darren Wilson admitted that he didn't even know anything of a robbery and he was stopping Michael Brown and his friend for jaywalking. And when five eye witnesses say the same exact thing about Michael Brown running away from the officer. And still being shot. And the official autopsy supports this like..... or were Wilson's "injuries" that convincing??? This is the last thing I'm gonna say on this and I'm not even gonna respond to Kameken sorry. At least I know who to avoid on here now!!

So where did you get this information from?

 

[twocows]

Actually the problem here is racism and stems from the fact that WHITE people can shoot up a theatre and bomb a city and still be taken in ALIVE without a single scratch on them, but when a black person allegedly robs a store he deserved to be murdered by police. And Darren Wilson admitted that he didn't even know anything of a robbery and he was stopping Michael Brown and his friend for jaywalking. And when five eye witnesses say the same exact thing about Michael Brown running away from the officer. And still being shot. And the official autopsy supports this like..... or were Wilson's "injuries" that convincing??? This is the last thing I'm gonna say on this and I'm not even gonna respond to Kameken sorry. At least I know who to avoid on here now!!

White or black or whatever, they can be and often are taken in unharmed regardless of the severity of their crime if they're not acting in a threatening manner when confronted by the police, or if the police are able to subdue them without excessive force anyway. Most people who don't resist are taken in without any incident. On the other hand, white or black or whatever, they can and have been harmed or killed for taking threatening action because they forced law enforcement into a position where they couldn't resolve the situation peacefully. Many people, regardless of race, have been harmed while resisting, and while there may be something to say for proper application of force, the key point is that they were resisting arrest to begin with.

Law officers respond to perceived threats with force. Sometimes, they respond with unnecessary and undue force and that's something that should be addressed, sure. But the core issue is that they're responding to something threatening to begin with. It seems pretty simple to me; you don't get shot in broad daylight with dozens of witnesses by a police officer in the age of cell phone cameras if you're not doing something threatening.

Also, if you think someone having a political disagreement with you is a good reason to avoid them, well, I find that unfortunate. I'm friends with many people I'm ideologically opposed to on many things; my cousin's about as far left as you can get and a conspiracy nut, and my dad's about as far right as you can get without being a conservative extremist. I disagree with both of them on a great many things and talk about it (often at length) and yet I'm on very good terms with both of them.

 

[Yoshikko]

White or black or whatever, they can be and often are taken in unharmed regardless of the severity of their crime if they're not acting in a threatening manner when confronted by the police, or if the police are able to subdue them without excessive force anyway. Most people who don't resist are taken in without any incident. On the other hand, white or black or whatever, they can and have been harmed or killed for taking threatening action because they forced law enforcement into a position where they couldn't resolve the situation peacefully. Many people, regardless of race, have been harmed while resisting, and while there may be something to say for proper application of force, the key point is that they were resisting arrest to begin with.

Law officers respond to perceived threats with force. Sometimes, they respond with unnecessary and undue force and that's something that should be addressed, sure. But the core issue is that they're responding to something threatening to begin with. It seems pretty simple to me; you don't get shot in broad daylight with dozens of witnesses by a police officer in the age of cell phone cameras if you're not doing something threatening.

Also, if you think someone having a political disagreement with you is a good reason to avoid them, well, I find that unfortunate. I'm friends with many people I'm ideologically opposed to on many things; my cousin's about as far left as you can get and a conspiracy nut, and my dad's about as far right as you can get without being a conservative extremist. I disagree with both of them on a great many things and talk about it (often at length) and yet I'm on very good terms with both of them.

I bolded the part that I think is key here, because the reality is.. that DOES happen, and it happens to people of colour. Mainly black people. (I'm not saying it never happens to white people, but SIGNIFICANTLY less). And it HAS been happening and it has been caught on video multiple times. Michael Brown was not resisting arrest, he was running away because Darren Wilson was getting his gun out after he tried to forcefully pull Michael Brown into his van (?? professional much??). Every eyewitness is saying the same thing. It literally states in the law that you cannot shoot someone who is running away. It's against the law. The official autopsy supports that this happened like why are people resisting that, it's an official autopsy. They are choosing to believe otherwise. Eric Garner was caught on video, murdered by an illegal chokehold. But the officer was still not indicted and there are no consequences and it's because Eric Garner was black. Like literally there is no room for discussion. And the reason I decide to avoid people who think this way is because it's not just an opinion or a political standpoint, it's deeply rooted racism, it's my choice if I don't want to associate with people like that and I don't get why you made a point out of that lol.

 

[Nah]

I bolded the part that I think is key here, because the reality is.. that DOES happen, and it happens to people of colour. Mainly black people. (I'm not saying it never happens to white people, but SIGNIFICANTLY less). And it HAS been happening and it has been caught on video multiple times. Michael Brown was not resisting arrest, he was running away because Darren Wilson was getting his gun out after he tried to forcefully pull Michael Brown into his van (?? professional much??). Every eyewitness is saying the same thing. It literally states in the law that you cannot shoot someone who is running away. It's against the law. The official autopsy supports that this happened like why are people resisting that, it's an official autopsy. They are choosing to believe otherwise. Eric Garner was caught on video, murdered by an illegal chokehold. But the officer was still not indicted and there are no consequences and it's because Eric Garner was black. Like literally there is no room for discussion. And the reason I decide to avoid people who think this way is because it's not just an opinion or a political standpoint, it's deeply rooted racism, it's my choice if I don't want to associate with people like that and I don't get why you made a point out of that lol.

That way of thinking in the bold is why these discussions never go anywhere. Just because it's abundantly clear to you that this is an open-and-shut case and that Wilson killed Brown out of racism, doesn't mean that it is that clear to everyone. People coming into these threads and being like "this is what happened and that's how it is end if story and if you think otherwise you're a racist and I'm not gonna listen to you" is INCREDIBLY unhelpful to actually trying to attempt to fix social problems. Having that attitude and labeling anyone who does not agree with you an enemy causes the discussion to come to a halt and makes people less inclined to actually think about something and maybe even change. This is a discussion, not a battlefield.

Also, when you say things like "Michael Brown was not resisting arrest, he was running away because Darren Wilson was getting his gun out after he tried to forcefully pull Michael Brown into his van " or "The official autopsy supports that this happened like why are people resisting that, it's an official autopsy." please expand on that and provide specific links and lines from official reports. Explain WHY the autopsy report supports your claim. Point out the specific lines/witnesses/pages in the grand jury report where it was said that Brown was not resisting arrest. Then maybe we can start getting somewhere.

And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm getting after you in particular, I don't mean it to be like that. I mean it more as a general thing, because lots of people are like that.

 

[twocows]

I bolded the part that I think is key here, because the reality is.. that DOES happen, and it happens to people of colour. Mainly black people. (I'm not saying it never happens to white people, but SIGNIFICANTLY less).

Do you have a source for that?

And it HAS been happening and it has been caught on video multiple times. Michael Brown was not resisting arrest, he was running away because Darren Wilson was getting his gun out after he tried to forcefully pull Michael Brown into his van (?? professional much??). Every eyewitness is saying the same thing.

I hadn't heard that. How many witnesses were there that said this?

The official autopsy supports that this happened like why are people resisting that, it's an official autopsy.

I also hadn't heard this.

They are choosing to believe otherwise.

Up to this point, the only thing I've chosen to believe is that, in light of a lack of evidence, I would presume innocence; this is something I always do regardless of who is on trial. If the things you're saying are true, that's significant evidence in the other direction, but I hadn't heard of either of these things, possibly because I haven't followed it all that closely. Is there a major news source that has reported these things? If so, a link would be helpful.

Either way, this is one particular anecdote, and if it is the case that the officer acted improperly, I still don't think it's representative of the whole. One of the reasons I do support body cameras for police is because I feel they will establish that most officers are good people trying to do the right thing and clear up a lot of myths.

Eric Garner was caught on video, murdered by an illegal chokehold. But the officer was still not indicted and there are no consequences and it's because Eric Garner was black.

I don't think that incident had happened when I made my initial post. I completely agree with you on that one. There's no real room for argument in my opinion. Maybe the guy should have surrendered more quickly, but this was a pretty obvious case of gross overuse of force. I think it's much different than the Michael Brown one; there's a video recording that shows pretty clearly what happened. I still don't think it's a race thing, though, I think it's a misuse of police force thing.

Like literally there is no room for discussion. And the reason I decide to avoid people who think this way is because it's not just an opinion or a political standpoint, it's deeply rooted racism, it's my choice if I don't want to associate with people like that and I don't get why you made a point out of that lol.

I think what I've said so far is evidence enough that my perspective has nothing to do with race. I haven't said one thing about anyone's race aside from that I don't think it's a significant factor in what has happened. Everything I've said so far would apply equally if everyone was exactly the same color.

Are there racists talking about this? Of course. The Klan weighed in on it and so did the modern equivalent of the Black Panthers. It's pretty obvious that some of the things being said are racist. I don't think that's the majority, though, and I don't think you should say that everyone who feels a certain way about the issue has deep-seated issues of racism and avoid them as a result. Even people I know who actually are prejudiced against a particular race aren't bad people, they're usually just ill-informed and are over-generalizing their bad experiences or those of people they know.

I'll leave you with this story, which I've always liked.

 

[#DickBats]

The Fergunson case was pretty clear. The young delinquent, (black, white, latino, doesn't matter) went for the officer's gun and he got shot. You can't try to disarm an officer, in fact, you can't try to disarm anyone. You're going to get shot 9/10 times. If Michael Brown had succesfully disarmed the officer, what do you think he was planing to do? The thing I don't understand is why Wilson got out like a God and didn't face at least some kind of penalty-electronic shackles perhaps?

Now, the '' I Can't Breath " case was Discusting. He killed that man with his bare hands. That officer should be punished with all the force of the law.

 

[Kanzler]

Isn't running away from police resisting arrest?

 

[Yoshikko]

So where did you get this information from?

[....]

Also, when you say things like "Michael Brown was not resisting arrest, he was running away because Darren Wilson was getting his gun out after he tried to forcefully pull Michael Brown into his van " or "The official autopsy supports that this happened like why are people resisting that, it's an official autopsy." please expand on that and provide specific links and lines from official reports. Explain WHY the autopsy report supports your claim. Point out the specific lines/witnesses/pages in the grand jury report where it was said that Brown was not resisting arrest. Then maybe we can start getting somewhere.

And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm getting after you in particular, I don't mean it to be like that. I mean it more as a general thing, because lots of people are like that.

Do you have a source for that?
I hadn't heard that. How many witnesses were there that said this?

I also hadn't heard this.

Up to this point, the only thing I've chosen to believe is that, in light of a lack of evidence, I would presume innocence; this is something I always do regardless of who is on trial. If the things you're saying are true, that's significant evidence in the other direction, but I hadn't heard of either of these things, possibly because I haven't followed it all that closely. Is there a major news source that has reported these things? If so, a link would be helpful.

[....]

I will now try to source everything that I've pointed out as best as I can. I didn't want to quote everything because it would be too long, so I just left in the parts that are related to the links/sources. Also @ Zekrom, I didn't really mean it in that way, I just feel like most people aren't willing to change their view on it even if they would be shown hard evidence, but I can't make assumptions I guess.

Officer Wilson did not know about a robbery/it wasn't reported/it was unrelated/it was not Michael Brown
https://www.dailykos.com/story/2014...m-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft
https://www.ksdk.com/story/news/loc...ef-officer-didnt-know-about-robbery/14124259/
https://newsone.com/3045219/ferguson-police-chief-admits-mike-brown-shooting-not-related-to-robbery/
https://countercurrentnews.com/2014...lieve-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video/

The autopsy report results, and evidence that supports Michael Brown running away
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/...-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=1
https://www.dailykos.com/story/2014...render-position-when-Darren-Wilson-killed-him

Distance from the van where he was killed, and the police lying about it (also supports that he was running away)
https://www.dailykos.com/story/2014...killed-148-feet-away-from-Darren-Wilson-s-SUV

The eyewitness accounts in video's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRbiEZ_vIOQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GEmBhV8RB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7tTsEYE3Ms

Important videos to watch regarding the grand jury's decision and more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVzcrSzirrs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MlEhoCIFwc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLZXj2xxis

Darren Wilson's "injuries" proposed as "evidence" (does this really need elaboration? Darren Wilson claims that Michael Brown was punching him multiple times in the face and he said himself that he thought another punch could have been fatal)
https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/11/24/7279311/ferguson-darren-wilson-injuries

There are a lot of masterposts on the internet that compile facts and evidence, I obviously can't post them all. Darren Wilson also has a history as a bad officer, I didn't link anything to that because it's not really related to the points I was trying to make, but there is a lot of information on the internet about that as well.

Isn't running away from police resisting arrest?

Also it is literally against the law to shoot someone who is running so.. I think one of the video's I posted supports that as well.

Oh also, did I mention the eyewitnesses being killed by police now??
https://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/deandrejoshua.asp
https://www.sott.net/article/289631...file-of-eye-witness-to-Michael-Brown-shooting
https://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1695060 (the link to the actual article itself doesn't work, but this will do)

SORRY if I seem aggressive or whatever in my posts, I don't mean to come off that way, I'm just very passionate about this.

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

Actually, you never addressed my question. You claimed,

Actually the problem here is racism and stems from the fact that WHITE people can shoot up a theatre and bomb a city and still be taken in ALIVE without a single scratch on them, but when a black person allegedly robs a store he deserved to be murdered by police. And Darren Wilson admitted that he didn't even know anything of a robbery and he was stopping Michael Brown and his friend for jaywalking.

Seriously, I dare you to actually try this. See if you get away with it. Because let me tell you something, yes, what happened to Brown may have been fueled by racism (it could have also been fueled by other forms of bigotry as well, but nobody involved seems interested in this possibility for some reason) but you're outright claiming things that are outright false.

I have no problem with people being upset over Brown's death, it makes complete sense why people would be upset and conclusions can be drawn on either side. However, the problem I have with statements like this is that you are pulling implications out of nowhere which have yet to actually be proven true. You can't just claims something that ridiculous when there are many cases, including your examples to prove this claim incorrect. You're basically saying that white people are somehow immune to the law, which is completely untrue. Again, I dare you to actually try it instead of continuing to perpetuate this bluff that white people can get away with anything.

Perhaps they were taken in alive because of mere circumstance. Frankly, if the young man did bolt towards the officer, he put himself in a situation that he could have died. If he didn't, he still would have had to deal with the law, just as a petty thief instead of an assault charge.

In fact, if you want to actually address the problem here, it's not the law's fault, since it is written in (mostly) egalitarian words, it's the people who lay down the law who manipulate it to be against people of a certain race. But in my opinion, the concept of "race crimes" only adds fuel to that fire. If Brown was killed because the officer hated poor people instead of black people, would it still have been as much of a crime?

P.S. for the love of god can people stop *****ing about "deserving" here? I think we can all agree that nobody "deserved" to die here. It serves no purpose other than to load questions and presume guilt against people who disagree with people in this thread. The question is not whether or not he "deserved it", it's whether or not the officer's actions were justified.

 

[Yoshikko]

Actually, you never addressed my question. You claimed,

[...]
However, the problem I have with statements like this is that you are pulling implications out of nowhere which have yet to actually be proven true. You can't just claims something that ridiculous when there are many cases, including your examples to prove this claim incorrect. You're basically saying that white people are somehow immune to the law, which is completely untrue. Again, I dare you to actually try it instead of continuing to perpetuate this bluff that white people can get away with anything.

Perhaps they were taken in alive because of mere circumstance. Frankly, if the young man did bolt towards the officer, he put himself in a situation that he could have died. If he didn't, he still would have had to deal with the law, just as a petty thief instead of an assault charge.

In fact, if you want to actually address the problem here, it's not the law's fault, since it is written in (mostly) egalitarian words, it's the people who lay down the law who manipulate it to be against people of a certain race. But in my opinion, the concept of "race crimes" only adds fuel to that fire. If Brown was killed because the officer hated poor people instead of black people, would it still have been as much of a crime?

I don't.. get your point here, do I have to prove to you that one of the boston bombers is still alive? Or the guy that shot up a theatre and killed dozens of people? The bomber was featured on the cover of Rolling Stone... like, I don't understand what you're getting at. If by law someone who kills people can be taken into custody alive, then a boy who allegedly robbed a store (disproven) and runs towards an officer (disproven) can be too. Also, I want to ask you to not reply to my posts anymore if you're just going to ignore all the links I've put there. "just as a petty thief instead of an assault charge." I put enough evidence in my post that disproves that. Read first please.

 

[pokecole]

The Fergunson case was pretty clear. The young delinquent, (black, white, latino, doesn't matter) went for the officer's gun and he got shot. You can't try to disarm an officer, in fact, you can't try to disarm anyone. You're going to get shot 9/10 times. If Michael Brown had succesfully disarmed the officer, what do you think he was planing to do? The thing I don't understand is why Wilson got out like a God and didn't face at least some kind of penalty-electronic shackles perhaps?

Now, the '' I Can't Breath " case was Discusting. He killed that man with his bare hands. That officer should be punished with all the force of the law.

What evidence do you have that supports him attempting to disarm the officer? I for one didn't see any evidence that supported that.

I agree that the law should punish the officer in the "I Can't Breathe" case.

 

[#DickBats]

What evidence do you have that supports him attempting to disarm the officer? I for one didn't see any evidence that supported that.

I agree that the law should punish the officer in the "I Can't Breathe" case.

Officer Wilson testified to the grand jury that the two struggled over his service weapon while he was still in his police vehicle, and that later, after a brief chase, he fired the fatal shots at Mr. Brown because the teenager was coming toward him in a threatening way.

- nytimes

Whether is true or not, the officer was clearly injured.

 

[Grey Wind]

- nytimes

Whether is true or not, the officer was clearly injured.

Uhh no he wasn't:

Spoiler:

 

[Yoshikko]

- nytimes

Whether is true or not, the officer was clearly injured.

This is what I mean though, did you actually take a look at the pictures I linked? What injury are you talking about? The tan line in his neck?? Where is the injury? Point it out to me, please. That redness on his cheek looks more like a sunburn or the aftermath of acne. Does that look like he was punched in the face? Clearly injured....

 

[Nah]

The eyewitness accounts in video's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRbiEZ_vIOQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GEmBhV8RB4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7tTsEYE3Ms

Important videos to watch regarding the grand jury's decision and more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVzcrSzirrs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MlEhoCIFwc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brLZXj2xxis

Thank you so much for posting these. This is so much better than the thought of reading that super long grand jury report. =)


@thing about Wilson's injuries: Darren Wilson doesn't look like he suffered any injuries. The photos make that clear.

 

[#DickBats]

Uhh no he wasn't:

Spoiler:

This is what I mean though, did you actually take a look at the pictures I linked? What injury are you talking about? The tan line in his neck?? Where is the injury? Point it out to me, please. That redness on his cheek looks more like a sunburn or the aftermath of acne. Does that look like he was punched in the face? Clearly injured....

I only gave my opinion. Why so agressive?

The side with the "Acne problem" is swollen. He didn't get hit with a devastating right hand to the jaw. But it is certain that some kind of physical altercation happened.

 

[obZen]

OK so, Eric Garner was killed about 10 minutes away from my house.
His death was ruled a homicide, which does not prove motive, but is the only reason why it even went to trial.
The officer was not indicted.

NYC riots erupted, but not many on Staten Island, because protestors literally couldn't get here x_x
Here's a link to the video, along with extended footage.

The Eric Garner case is a much less talked about one than the one in Ferguson, MO. However, it still begs the questions raised in this thread.

In this case, the EMTs basically did absolutely nothing. The cop who took him down did so without instruction. Look at the top-ranked officer on the left of the initial video; the look on his face says it all. The takedown should not have happened.
A cop who shouldn't even have made the NYPD made a rash decision.

I read this article which basicaly outlines the problems with NYC cops.
They are basically trained to bust balls for stupid things, like untaxed cigarettes or pulling over young kids because haha screw them right?
Yet, when something bad actually happens, they act rash and things like the Garner case happen.

Also, like it or not, a big black man is scary to a majority of white people, especally on Staten Island. The mother of Garner dismisses racial cases, but I disagree. If this was me, I would not have been taken dow in the same situation. If I was 280 lbs with my same height, I would have been stiff-armed into a handcuff position, not dragged down violently. Just some food for thought: Would YOU have been dragged down?