Mods have sig editting powers?

[Kairi]

Well, if I'm right, then I had a line in my sig removed tonight. Which is one reason I made this thread, because I can't narrow down the suspects anymore. >_>

That I don't know about, but like I said if someone did do it then they probably weren't too trustworthy anyway. Speaking of that line, I am curious how an, as you point out, regular member knows so much about topics in a mod forum…

We have a right to know that our signatures are now able to be modified by mods.

IMO most members won't make such a big deal of it. =\ They trust us and anyone we put under them and any power we give them. So many can just like, post normally and not flare up at any given thing. You have a right? No you don't. You don't have any REAL rights. This is the admins' forum, and they can do exactly what they like. Maybe you SHOULD have a right to know, but that doesn't mean you do. Registered Members doesn't have more power than admins, despite what a lot of them think.

This is a big change however, and it's something that should be discussed with server admins.

You are giving 30+ people access to user sigs, that's a lot of power being given out.


I'm sorry, but I'm under the impression that you were given the power so that you could make sure PC ran smoothly by making the small changes that would normally have to be run by the admins, not big changes like this.

Yeah, it's not hard to simply ask Steve. But you know what? He saw AND posted in the topic I made discussing this with all the senior staff who, BTW agreed with me. He had his chance to comment on it, and he didn't. The information was there.

They gave us the power and trust us with it. If they really had a problem, wouldn't they have posted in this topic by now? *looks around* No…don't see any posts. Hmm.

And now I'll pose a new question: What's next? Will mods be given the power over avatars, over profile fields - where's teh line between smod and mod now, apart from power over # of forums?

Guess that's for us to decide, and you to sit, find out, and try to deal with.

 

[aRedMoon]

Yay~ Abby replied~ :D

That I don?t know about, but like I said if someone did do it then they probably weren?t too trustworthy anyway. Speaking of that line, I am curious how an, as you point out, regular member knows so much about topics in a mod forum?

Mod leaks happen all the time, nothing can really be done about it. You know as well as I do that posts make their way across MSN quite fast.

IMO most members won?t make such a big deal of it. =\ They trust us and anyone we put under them and any power we give them. So many can just like, post normally and not flare up at any given thing. You have a right? No you don?t. You don?t have any REAL rights. This is the admins? forum, and they can do exactly what they like. Maybe you SHOULD have a right to know, but that doesn?t mean you do. Registered Members doesn?t have more power than admins, despite what a lot of them think.

Mmm, okay, "right" was a bad choice of a word. But we should know who has the powers, even if it was a small little post, we would have no idea were it not for mod leaks. If you were a registered member, would you have liked to know about it?

Yeah, it?s not hard to simply ask Steve. But you know what? He saw AND posted in the topic I made discussing this with all the senior staff who, BTW agreed with me. He had his chance to comment on it, and he didn?t. The information was there.

Do you always comment on stuff? And from the stories, it's plausible that he figured nothing would come out of it, like much of the HQ.

They gave us the power and trust us with it. If they really had a problem, wouldn?t they have posted in this topic by now? *looks around* No?don?t see any posts. Hmm.

Hint: PPNSteve has been reading this thread. ;) And he's also been in the AdminCP. ;)

Guess that?s for us to decide, and you to sit, find out, and try to deal with.

PC isn't a democracy.

 

[Kairi]

Mmm, okay, "right" was a bad choice of a word. But we should know who has the powers, even if it was a small little post, we would have no idea were it not for mod leaks. If you were a registered member, would you have liked to know about it?

Did we inform the members when we let the smods go of their admin powers? No. Did we publicly announce when Arcanine got layouts? No. Those are internal matters, that, as far as members are concerned, aren't really important.

There's no reason to say a freshly registered member would know Smods could edit sigs either. But I'm not going to add the list of powers each rank has to the rules. That's our business, and we excersize it to the benefit of the members. Why would a registered member care if mods suddenly could? He always trusted that the staff was right in letting smods, he'd probably trust them again if they did this.

Do you always comment on stuff? And from the stories, it's plausible that he figured nothing would come out of it, like much of the HQ

As a matter of fact, yes. But the fact you said he had no idea proved he wasn't paying attention to the topic. And as for him assuming nothing would come out of it…*points to last lines of JK's little sig link*

Hint: PPNSteve has been reading this thread. ;) And he's also been in the AdminCP. ;)

And he hasn't taken away their sig editing powers. wut

How's that last quote help you? Doesn't seem to. The bottom line is this: If you can find my twenty-five members (or mods) who, when asked "The smods have always had the ability to edit signatures, and little to no abuse has come of it. Now the mods can. Do you trust the mods as much as the smods? At least enough to edit sigs?" and they honestly express a genuine concern, I'll take it off. But personally this seems like a war that no one cares about.

 

[Soph]

There is a sticky in the lounge - Signature Reports - for a reason. >_<

And it was working fine beforehand, what's the problem now?

EDIT:I think Andy is mad at me~

You two may have all the admin powers, but you aren't considered full admins. If you were, you'd have a nice blue colored name. What Steve chooses still overrides your decisions, especially when it deals with giving this group power.

You know JK it looks to me as if the only person in this thread who has a problem with the mods having sig editing powers is YOU. If you have a problem with it, shut up and give up. Steve didnt step and and change anything so he has left it to Andy and Kairi to decide. He and the other Admins entrusted Andy and Kairi with the powers they have because they were trusted enough to make such decisions without having to constantly bug the admins for permission to make changes. Andy and Abby are fully capable of making decisions and dont need you to tell them they are being naughty little praetor/abagails. If you have a problem with them using powers that came with responsiblity to make changes around PC if they see fit and to do so with full trust from the admins well keep it to yourself cos guess what, bucko, your not going to be able to change it. If steve has a problem with any of this he can step in. But he has faith in our high staff and Andy and Abby have proven themselves capable time and time again. Just because one deceision they make does not sit well with you does not mean you make some big fuss about it. If you dont like sig editing powers for mods, keep it to yourself and have YOUR sig editing powers taken away. But for the rest of the mods, we dont have a problem and if the admins dont come in and close the idea off, Andy and Abby is who the rest of us put our faith in.

 

[Brittany]

*watches JK and Abby duke it out*

Go JK!
Go Abby!

*agrees with bits and pieces of both arguments*

 

[Soph]

*watches JK and Abby duke it out*

Go JK!
Go Abby!

*agrees with bits and pieces of both arguments*

Better cheer for abby I think JK is going to lose. XD

 

[aRedMoon]

Did we inform the members when we let the smods go of their admin powers? No. Did we publicly announce when Arcanine got layouts? No. Those are internal matters, that, as far as members are concerned, aren?t really important.

There?s no reason to say a freshly registered member would know Smods could edit sigs either. But I?m not going to add the list of powers each rank has to the rules. That?s our business, and we excersize it to the benefit of the members. Why would a registered member care if mods suddenly could? He always trusted that the staff was right in letting smods, he?d probably trust them again if they did this.

He showed me the posts (hooray for leaks!) and I have to say that it's understandable that he skipped over it. The idea of mods getting signatures was kinda just smooshed in there, not all that noticeable.

[23:43] <PPN[fp]> only post i made on that topic..
[23:43] <PPN[fp]> never said anything about letting mods edit sigs

As for letting members know, there is a difference on the effect of the permissions on us. For instance, Andy getting layouts has basically no impact on us, but mods geting signatures do. Even when the TDome was added, it was noted that all SMods now had Users, so they could move people to the right group.

As a matter of fact, yes. But the fact you said he had no idea proved he wasn?t paying attention to the topic. And as for him assuming nothing would come out of it?*points to last lines of JK?s little sig link*

Ah, got me there. =)
You addressed a lot of things in that topic, and he replied to most but that mod permission. And still, would it have been hard to go to
https://www.pokecommunity.com/private.php?do=newpm&userid=2
And send him a PM asking him to comment on it? No.

And he hasn?t taken away their sig editing powers. wut

I just said what I've noticed. *shrugs*

How?s that last quote help you? Doesn?t seem to. The bottom line is this: If you can find my twenty-five members (or mods) who, when asked ?The smods have always had the ability to edit signatures, and little to no abuse has come of it. Now the mods can. Do you trust the mods as much as the smods? At least enough to edit sigs?? and they honestly express a genuine concern, I?ll take it off. But personally this seems like a war that no one cares about.

I like that quote: It shows that we, as members, have no input as to what the staff does. What the staff does only affects us in the end, we rarely have the power to say "Yes" or "No" to stuff.

And fine, if no one cares, then so be it. I just think this is a crossing of the line between Mod and SMod, which is stupid. We didn't have problems before, so why make solutions now?

PS: You're a good debater~


EDIT:

You know JK it looks to me as if the only person in this thread who has a problem with the mods having sig editing powers is YOU. If you have a problem with it, shut up and give up. Steve didnt step and and change anything so he has left it to Andy and Kairi to decide. He and the other Admins entrusted Andy and Kairi with the powers they have because they were trusted enough to make such decisions without having to constantly bug the admins for permission to make changes. Andy and Abby are fully capable of making decisions and dont need you to tell them they are being naughty little praetor/abagails. If you have a problem with them using powers that came with responsiblity to make changes around PC if they see fit and to do so with full trust from the admins well keep it to yourself cos guess what, bucko, your not going to be able to change it. If steve has a problem with any of this he can step in. But he has faith in our high staff and Andy and Abby have proven themselves capable time and time again. Just because one deceision they make does not sit well with you does not mean you make some big fuss about it. If you dont like sig editing powers for mods, keep it to yourself and have YOUR sig editing powers taken away. But for the rest of the mods, we dont have a problem and if the admins dont come in and close the idea off, Andy and Abby is who the rest of us put our faith in.

Okay, try coming up with points not already brought up.

For one, Steve hasn't said "yes" or "no" yet, so why do you all assume he's just gonna be "Oh, Abby and Andy know this board perfectly. It's okay."? For all you know, he could take each and every sig editting permission out.

Secondly, just because I'm the only one that has posted in here doesn't mean I'm the only one that cares. Take a look: I think I'm the only registered member to post in this thread, all the rest have been staff. So before making conclusions, wait for other people to reply.

And thirdly, why take mine away? I don't have any to begin with. I'M NOT A MOD![/color]

 

[Flygon_Zero]

I don't know if I am allowed to post here, as I'm not completely aware of how you all do things here. I have something to say though. We as members of PC are entitled-not given the right to-to know what's going on. Most members who do have questions do as I do and PM their question to someone. This is usually a better way of going around doing things than making a thread about it. If more members had problems with the way things were run, they'd post here as I have and express their opinion. Although you may think we have no input on how things are run, we sort of do. Think about it, if the Admins and Mods or Smods ever got to abusive with their powers, slowly members would start leaving. Then PC would be nothing. However, there are no such things happening. Everyone seems perfectly happy with the way things are run, and there only seems to be a small handful of people who want to complain.

 

[aRedMoon]

I don't know if I am allowed to post here, as I'm not completely aware of how you all do things here. I have something to say though. We as members of PC are entitled-not given the right to-to know what's going on. Most members who do have questions do as I do and PM their question to someone. This is usually a better way of going around doing things than making a thread about it. If more members had problems with the way things were run, they'd post here as I have and express their opinion. Although you may think we have no input on how things are run, we sort of do. Think about it, if the Admins and Mods or Smods ever got to abusive with their powers, slowly members would start leaving. Then PC would be nothing. However, there are no such things happening. Everyone seems perfectly happy with the way things are run, and there only seems to be a small handful of people who want to complain.

The thing is that I did post a thread, I felt as though it was something that should be brought up. -_-

And look at a couple replies, they haven't been the nicest.

 

[Kairi]

He showed me the posts (hooray for leaks!) and I have to say that it's understandable that he skipped over it. The idea of mods getting signatures was kinda just smooshed in there, not all that noticeable.

[23:43] <PPN[fp]> only post i made on that topic..
[23:43] <PPN[fp]> never said anything about letting mods edit sigs

Perhaps. I suppose it is kind of on there as a secondary proposal, but I still think if he had any major obligations he would have noticed it. And like you and I have said—he's seen this topic. Doesn't seem too concerned.

As for letting members know, there is a difference on the effect of the permissions on us. For instance, Andy getting layouts has basically no impact on us, but mods geting signatures do. Even when the TDome was added, it was noted that all SMods now had Users, so they could move people to the right group.

They were only made to know so that you'd know to petition them for the T-dome. If they just got user s cause we felt they needed them to mod, we probably wouldn't have let you know, even though it would have all the impact of sig changing, and more.

Ah, got me there. =)
You addressed a lot of things in that topic, and he replied to most but that mod permission. And still, would it have been hard to go to
https://www.pokecommunity.com/private.php?do=newpm&userid=2
And send him a PM asking him to comment on it? No.

Thing is though we've made these kinds of changes before, and generally when he post o n a topic and doesn't say no, we go ahead and do it and it works. I really didn't think it was that big of a deal, since the rest of the smods had no problem. Had I realized it was such a…radical change, I just would have. That's why I'm reluctant to pass judgment on a mature RP forum. IMO –that- is a huge change, one we're not qualified to make. It affects the content of the site as a whole, sig editing does not. That's how I've always believed the line laid between what we were authorized to do and what we weren't.

I like that quote: It shows that we, as members, have no input as to what the staff does. What the staff does only affects us in the end, we rarely have the power to say "Yes" or "No" to stuff.

And fine, if no one cares, then so be it. I just think this is a crossing of the line between Mod and SMod, which is stupid. We didn't have problems before, so why make solutions now?

IMO we did have a problem. People weren't reading the rules, we added something up to the Navbar. Now it's easier to get people on them, with no excuse for not seeing them. This was kind of done in conjunction with the sig thing—I still see huge ones around and I felt (and apparently the rest of the smods too) that warnings weren't getting anywhere.

Since there was so little follow-up, people weren't afraid to go back to old sigs. I tried that limiter…sadly that didn't work. It was one solution. This is another possible one. But it hasn't been prove not to work yet, like the limiter was.

PS: You're a good debater~

And you as well. Is nice to see someone actually challenge points and not just pull rank. If done right, produces a higher quality of board for all.

 

[Flygon_Zero]

That wasn;t my point though. No one else seems to have a problem with things here at PC except for you. I have read the past posts and found nothing other than what seemed to be truth in them. If you did want to bring this up, don't you think there is a better way you could have done so? By posting a thread, it seems like you're just trying to find a way to post your views on the things you consider bad. You may be missing all the things they have done for PC that worked out for the best.

 

[aRedMoon]

Perhaps. I suppose it is kind of on there as a secondary proposal, but I still think if he had any major obligations he would have noticed it. And like you and I have said?he?s seen this topic. Doesn?t seem too concerned.

He hasn't replied, why make assumptions? =P

Thing is though we?ve made these kinds of changes before, and generally when he post o n a topic and doesn?t say no, we go ahead and do it and it works. I really didn?t think it was that big of a deal, since the rest of the smods had no problem. Had I realized it was such a?radical change, I just would have. That?s why I?m reluctant to pass judgment on a mature RP forum. IMO ?that- is a huge change, one we?re not qualified to make. It affects the content of the site as a whole, sig editing does not. That?s how I?ve always believed the line laid between what we were authorized to do and what we weren?t.

I do think it's a big deal, as you're giving moderators the power to change user profiles. User Profiles are something that a user has to him/herself, and that's not something that should be able to be changed by someone that was hired on to watch a forum no one else likes.
I see this as a bigger change than a Mature RP forum, as we already have the TDome set up. The topics would be similar to the TDome, though in RP form - something the admins have already said okay to, more or less. However, an admin didn't reply to this, and it's giving out powers to a large amount of people.

IMO we did have a problem. People weren?t reading the rules, we added something up to the Navbar. Now it?s easier to get people on them, with no excuse for not seeing them. This was kind of done in conjunction with the sig thing?I still see huge ones around and I felt (and apparently the rest of the smods too) that warnings weren?t getting anywhere.

Since there was so little follow-up, people weren?t afraid to go back to old sigs. I tried that limiter?sadly that didn?t work. It was one solution. This is another possible one. But it hasn?t been prove not to work yet, like the limiter was.

The Rules thing is an awesome idea - it makes them easier to get to. I completely agree with that. =)

And there weren't really many "formal" warnings, just in the posted rules, which until a short while ago were rather hard to find. :/ (And not too long ago, there were multiple sets of them, all of which had different rulesets)

And you as well. Is nice to see someone actually challenge points and not just pull rank. If done right, produces a higher quality of board for all.

Thanks. ^^;


EDIT:

That wasn;t my point though. No one else seems to have a problem with things here at PC except for you. I have read the past posts and found nothing other than what seemed to be truth in them. If you did want to bring this up, don't you think there is a better way you could have done so? By posting a thread, it seems like you're just trying to find a way to post your views on the things you consider bad. You may be missing all the things they have done for PC that worked out for the best.

Well, the name of the forum has "Feedback" in it, so why can't I post it? And I've said before, there has been little member feedback, mainly staff.

And uhm, I've been a staff member here. I know a lot of the things that happened for the good, that perhaps you don't yourself know.

 

[Kairi]

I do think it's a big deal, as you're giving moderators the power to change user profiles. User Profiles are something that a user has to him/herself, and that's not something that should be able to be changed by someone that was hired on to watch a forum no one else likes.

I see this as a bigger change than a Mature RP forum, as we already have the TDome set up. The topics would be similar to the TDome, though in RP form - something the admins have already said okay to, more or less. However, an admin didn't reply to this, and it's giving out powers to a large amount of people.

This is where we have different of opinion. My belief is that roleplay already has a flamey tendency, plus the maturity level of a lot of the people who participate in the normal RPs…isn't too high. If you throw them into those kind of mature situations, you're making quite a big change that directly impacts members. Sig editing is a mod-side thing, it's something we carry out on a reactive basis. Members generally trust the staff to make those decisions and to appoint people under them to carry out the tasks. And an admin didn't reply to the RP thing either. If you say, "Well they approved the T-dome…" then I could say "Well they let smods have sig editing powers" But neither of those are quite the same things as the issues in question.

And there weren't really many "formal" warnings, just in the posted rules, which until a short while ago were rather hard to find. :/ (And not too long ago, there were multiple sets of them, all of which had different rulesets)

That's why we made them on the Navbar, so people WOULD have a clear way to see what's acceptable and what's not. We wanted to be fair before we starting editing people's sigs.

But a lot of the people who put an obscene amount of images in their sig will do so no matter what, and that's where the mods come in. You did agree with me about ripping out the tags in my announcement earlier, no? Seems to me now you're kinda saying we should go back to warnings. =\

I will say your posts have gotten me to think. and it did kind of disturb me at first, thinking about the line blurring. How this is the first mod power that's been forum-wide. But you know…sometimes definitions have to change. And I honestly believe had there not been a leak from the lounge about sig editing powers, everything would have gone along fine and blissfully. If there was abuse, I think it would have been reported, and that would have been the time for this discussion.

 

[aRedMoon]

This is where we have different of opinion. My belief is that roleplay already has a flamey tendency, plus the maturity level of a lot of the people who participate in the normal RPs?isn?t too high. If you throw them into those kind of mature situations, you?re making quite a big change that directly impacts members. Sig editing is a mod-side thing, it?s something we carry out on a reactive basis. Members generally trust the staff to make those decisions and to appoint people under them to carry out the tasks. And an admin didn?t reply to the RP thing either. If you say, "Well they approved the T-dome?? then I could say ?Well they let smods have sig editing powers? But neither of those are quite the same things as the issues in question.

Ah, I now that just because they approved the TDome doesn't mean they'd approve the RP forum, I apologize if that's how it came off. I just see it as being a lesser "admin-needed" thing than the mod-sig-editting. :/

That?s why we made them on the Navbar, so people WOULD have a clear way to see what?s acceptable and what?s not. We wanted to be fair before we starting editing people?s sigs.

That's one of the best things you guys have done, really.

But a lot of the people who put an obscene amount of images in their sig will do so no matter what, and that?s where the mods come in. You did agree with me about ripping out the tags in my announcement earlier, no? Seems to me now you?re kinda saying we should go back to warnings. =\

But ripping them out without a single warning is kinda mean... I got a couple replies from people saying "Oh, I didn't realize it was too big! I'll take care of it right away! ^^;" and 3 minutes later, their sig is perfect. :/ One warning would be plenty before ripping it out, and if a person needs warnings on two occasions, then it's okay... but after that, they should know.

It's kinda like this, would you ban a person right away for posting a forum link? No, you lock the thread and warn them not to do it again.

I will say your posts have gotten me to think. and it did kind of disturb me at first, thinking about the line blurring. How this is the first mod power that?s been forum-wide. But you know?sometimes definitions have to change. And I honestly believe had there not been a leak from the lounge about sig editing powers, everything would have gone along fine and blissfully. If there was abuse, I think it would have been reported, and that would have been the time for this discussion.

It is forum-wide, and that's what I have a problem with.

Mod - One forum
Super-Mod - All forums

That's what the different levels are for, ne?


And had there not been a leak, then users would've gone and continued on, and if there was abuse, it would have been assumed to be the SMods or above, and frankly, people are a bit too scared to stand up to them.

 

[Flygon_Zero]

And had there not been a leak, then users would've gone and continued on, and if there was abuse, it would have been assumed to be the SMods or above, and frankly, people are a bit too scared to stand up to them.

He has a point there. There are a lot of people scared to even ask S.Mods or higher anything. However, there are also those people who go to any length to be heard, such as you JKaizer-and I don't mean this as a negative.

 

[Spectrum]

[03:57:47] <+JKaizer> XD
[03:57:53] <+JKaizer> i don't agree with it
[03:58:04] <@PPN[fp]> agree?
[03:59:02] <+JKaizer> my opinion is that mods are there to mod user posts, not user profiles
[03:59:25] <+JKaizer> i don't agree that mods should be able to edit sigs
[04:00:44] <@PPN[fp]> nor do i.. thats what we have gloabals/praetors for

Let's face it, some Moderators aren't nearly ready to go sticking their noses into other people's property (their sigs). I agree with Steve and Greg, because the power of a Moderator is limited to those certain forums for a reason. If it's such a concern, simply promote certain Moderators. It's not hard, is it? Also, as for the people who refill their sigs, you should send them a PM immediately after making the change. If they refill it after that, then they're practically begging to be banned.

 

[Kairi]

Meh, I need bed. You have good points, and I'll be happy to discuss them tomorrow.

Off on a little tangent here…I used to post at a board before PC. It had many more active members than PC (though fewer sub-froums), but there was something odd. It had about 5 mods total. They seemed to share power, some having power over areas and whatnot. I say this unsurely because to this day I don't know all what power they had. There was no clear definition of "mod, smod, admin" I, like everyone else, knew there were 5 people in power.

And their names had no color, there was no Forum Leaders page. They weren't even different on Who's Online? All there was, was at the end of Who's Online a little link—"Send PM to an active moderator"

This would only show up when there was one (and there almost always was) You didn't even see who, specifically it was sent to. Sure people knew ho the mods were, by reading their posts and seeing them post news on the site (Fascinating integration with the website). They were regular people, but they did place rules and such. And no one really did anything but just have good old discussions and debates. You could swear there all you want, but pr0n or something got pulled almost instantly. Sigs were edited for being oversized on sight.

And yet, somehow…it just all worked. People would have discussions like these about policy, but at the end everyone trusted the staff for the behind-the-scenes stuff and went on their way. Was just…so different. I still don't understand it. Guess it's different here, hmm.

Don't get me wrong—staying and joining here was the best decision I ever made forum-wise. I think we all know why I say that, but I had to throw that in. ^_~

EDIT: If that's how Steve really feels, then certainly that's how it will be.

 

[Spectrum]

He has a point there. There are a lot of people scared to even ask S.Mods or higher anything. However, there are also those people who go to any length to be heard, such as you JKaizer-and I don't mean this as a negative.

Why would they be scared? The S-Mods and above received their powers because they're nice, friendly people. I guess some people don't understand that.

Night night, Abby!

 

[aRedMoon]

Well, PC could have turned out that way, however, as far as I can recall, the differnt levels have been proudly worn. :/

You and Andy both share the same powers, but yet you have completely different usergroups. Heck, even the admins are a seperate group, just because they have sites.

/me thinks that i need to go to bed X_x

/me also thinks that Abby's forum was not vBulletin

Why would they be scared? The S-Mods and above received their powers because they're nice, friendly people. I guess some people don't understand that.

Does the word "ban" come to mind?

 

[Kairi]

Nope, it was an uber-hacked version of...something.

…and I do know what you mean about ranks. We're all kinda guilty time from time of wearing our staff colored garbs a little too proudly. =\

Night night, all. ^^