New Generations (III, IV,and V) vs. I and II. Which is better? Why?

[Oryx]

I agree, Kirbychu. Oh, and by the way, WildEagle, who said "creative"? Magneton, Elektrode, and Muk are all classic and simplistic. Muk = A citiy's waste combined into a big pile, making it poisonous, it really makes sense. Elektrode = How is that NOT creative?! Taking the very thing that represents Pokemon and making it a Pokemon itself is genius! And Magneton is also incredibly creative. When you explain them as dully as you do, you make it sound bad, but in reality, there are six sets of magnets, each with each presenting polar opposites, which help conduct electricity. Honestly, each of these Pokemon both look and sound dangerous. I hear of a Pokemon made from Ice Cream, I think, "Yum, I want sprinkles!" not, "Attack, use Blizzard, you amazing Ice Cream Cone, you!" -.- Oh, and Blastoise makes sense if you look at his first forms. PLUS, he isn't an bipedal freaking BUG with a smiley face and a gun. Oh, and you kinda helped me out there, a good Pokemon shouldn't need to be modified. I wouldn't bash on Genosect if he didn't have a stupid cannon on it's back and a rapist grin across it's face.

Muk and Garbodor are both city's waste. I don't see the difference. Other than Garbodor having a slightly more detailed sprite than Muk, they are the same. One's garbage, and one's waste. In fact, if you're getting down to it, the work that goes into garbage becoming waste makes Muk more complicated than Garbodor.

When I see a Mr. Mime, I think "pretend you're in an invisible box", not "go use your epic psychic attacks". That doesn't make Mr. Mime a bad Pokemon. That's the difference between a lot of people here. Your assumption is "if I don't like it, it's a bad Pokemon". You feel that because it's your opinion, you have the right to state it as if it's fact. Others, however, realize that they may not like every "good" Pokemon, and may like ones considered "bad" in general. Just in other matters of taste, just because you dislike something doesn't make it bad. Saying you dislike them (for a good reason) is reasonable, saying that they're bad BECAUSE you dislike them is something different entirely.

By the way, the definition of classic is "a creation of the highest excellence", so once again you're saying the old Pokemon are better because the old Pokemon are better. :/

 

[Kirbychu]

Magneton was an awesome Pokemon (Magnezone ruined it for me. Evolite to the rescue!) Steel/Electric in Gen 2 was a killer <3

I used that example to point out how in every Gen there's always bad design. Everyone bashes and trash gen.5 like the Pokemons are super crap compare to the Godlike untouchable Gen 1.

Well, that's entirely subjective. Yeah, many people bash ice cream mon and the garbage monster, but a lot of those people dislike the rest of the new Pokemon as well. To them, Gen 1 vs. Gen 5 is a generation with a couple bad designs vs. a generation full of garbage (literally).

The reason people do that though is because many of the people claiming that Generation I is the best and no other will compete, instead of giving reasonable justifications for their claim, just point out Pokemon such as Trubbish and Vanillite and their least favorite 5 from the newest game, and use this as the basis that the rest of the generation is horrible.

Maybe they actually think the rest of the generation is horrible?

Seriously, we're debating whether the new Pokemon are well-designed/creative or not. That's up to the individual, if you ask me.

 

[WildEagle]

I agree, Kirbychu. Oh, and by the way, WildEagle, who said "creative"? Magneton, Elektrode, and Muk are all classic and simplistic. Muk = A citiy's waste combined into a big pile, making it poisonous, it really makes sense. Elektrode = How is that NOT creative?! Taking the very thing that represents Pokemon and making it a Pokemon itself is genius! And Magneton is also incredibly creative. When you explain them as dully as you do, you make it sound bad, but in reality, there are six sets of magnets, each with each presenting polar opposites, which help conduct electricity. Honestly, each of these Pokemon both look and sound dangerous. I hear of a Pokemon made from Ice Cream, I think, "Yum, I want sprinkles!" not, "Attack, use Blizzard, you amazing Ice Cream Cone, you!" -.- Oh, and Blastoise makes sense if you look at his first forms. PLUS, he isn't an bipedal freaking BUG with a smiley face and a gun. Oh, and you kinda helped me out there, a good Pokemon shouldn't need to be modified. I wouldn't bash on Genosect if he didn't have a stupid cannon on it's back and a rapist grin across it's face.

Can't you say the same to Trubbish? It's a a pokemon created from the things people throw away. REALLY? Electrode? As much as a I love electrode, throwing a face into a pokeball, is hardly creative. I can do the same, my heart with strike with fear when I see a pokeball with a face on it right?

Take off the Nostalgia glasses, classic and simplistic? So why are you bashing something something as simple as an ice cream pokemon? Isn't that as simplistic as it gets? It's what kids loves to eat during the hot weather of summer. You want it to make more sense? Unova is a place set in the NY, what does people from North American loves to eat after the cold winter? An ice cream. Who do you think GameFreak aims the pokemon games too? The little kids, what does little kids love? ice cream and cute things.

Pokemon isn't just striking fear to your opponents heart, I love using Pokemons that everyone hates on or think they are useless. Why? Because even if they are just program data, you spend countless of hours training and pretty much bond with them, they may not look cool or powerful, but that's just judging something by its cover.

I look at wartortle and squirtle, and I don't see a giant cannon on their back. Unless baby tortoise gains giant cannons when they grow up.
GOOD pokemon shouldn't be modified? The what is Mewtwo? It's a Modified Pokemon created from Mew's genes.

 

[dblanchette93]

Perhaps I meant "original", I apologize. It is inarguable that the Pokemon of Generation I are the the originals. I do not believe that I said anything to say that they are bad because I dislike them. I didn't even say they are bad, I was simply stating my opinions on what I believe to be flaws. I dislike the design, but with reason, and you can't be the judge of "good reason", sir. That isn't your place. A good reason for me could be that I think it would smell like roses in real life, and then stating that roses smell bad to me, then again stating that that is the reason why I don't like it. To you, that would be bogus and cause you to facepalm every time you see the post. I have stated no facts, and don't mean to. I simply believe the older designs looked more fluid and simplistic.

 

[Oryx]

Maybe they actually think the rest of the generation is horrible?

Seriously, we're debating whether the new Pokemon are well-designed/creative or not. That's up to the individual, if you ask me.

Maybe they do, but that's not what they're saying. I haven't seen a single person say anything bad about most of the Pokemon. There are a few evolution lines who get trashed, and the rest are ignored. Genosect, Trubbish, Vanillite, Oshawott, sometimes Litwick and Timburr, and that's about it. That's 15 Pokemon out of 156 that I've seen constantly criticized, but none of the others. If they really thought the whole generation is horrible, why do critics always retreat behind those Pokemon instead of explaining reasonably why they think the first generation is "OMG SO UBER BEST EVER"?

This isn't directed towards you, because if I remember correctly we had a discussion about this on another thread (or maybe earlier in this thread?) and your reasoning was actually sound. It's most of the others that don't seem to think through what they're saying.

Edit:

do not believe that I said anything to say that they are bad because I dislike them. I didn't even say they are bad, I was simply stating my opinions on what I believe to be flaws.

Your second post on the forums called the new Pokemon generation an atrocity...nope, not bad at all.

dislike the design, but with reason, and you can't be the judge of "good reason", sir. That isn't your place. A good reason for me could be that I think it would smell like roses in real life, and then stating that roses smell bad to me, then again stating that that is the reason why I don't like it. To you, that would be bogus and cause you to facepalm every time you see the post. I have stated no facts, and don't mean to. I simply believe the older designs looked more fluid and simplistic.

First of all, it's ma'am. The gender is right there. Second of all, just like you have the right to dislike Pokemon because "Only Blastoise is allowed to have a cannon" or the ever-popular reason "They were first, therefore they're the best, end of discussion", I have the right to tell you that your reasons are not even remotely based in the actual designs of the Pokemon, but instead based in the goggles you insist on wearing. :/ When I discussed with Kirbychu and he pointed out that he doesn't enjoy the more cartoonish versions of the Pokemon, after discussing it a bit further, I agreed that they are more cartoonish in Gen V than Gen I. You're free to steal Kirby's reason if you'd like, then you can have a reason that can end your discussion with me without having to go through the effort of trying to explain your obviously complex, nostalgic feelings on why the first generation "will ALWAYS be the best" and the "atrocity Pokemon has become".

 

[WildEagle]

At dblanchette93, No one is taking away from the 1st gen, they're the originals, everyone shared memories with them. They are the ones that made us play and be dedicated to play every generation there is. But automatically calling a Pokemon bad because it's not on par with the originals, is just showing that they need to take off the nostalgia glasses. It happen to the 3rd gen, when everyone literally thrash the 3rd gen Pokemons until they played it and grew to them.

 

[dblanchette93]

Can't you say the same to Trubbish? It's a a pokemon created from the things people throw away. REALLY? Electrode? As much as a I love electrode, throwing a face into a pokeball, is hardly creative. I can do the same, my heart with strike with fear when I see a pokeball with a face on it right?

Take off the Nostalgia glasses, classic and simplistic? So why are you bashing something something as simple as an ice cream pokemon? Isn't that as simplistic as it gets? It's what kids loves to eat during the hot weather of summer. You want it to make more sense? Unova is a place set in the NY, what does people from North American loves to eat after the cold winter? An ice cream. Who do you think GameFreak aims the pokemon games too? The little kids, what does little kids love? ice cream and cute things.

Pokemon isn't just striking fear to your opponents heart, I love using Pokemons that everyone hates on or think they are useless. Why? Because even if they are just program data, you spend countless of hours training and pretty much bond with them, they may not look cool or powerful, but that's just judging something by its cover.

I look at wartortle and squirtle, and I don't see a giant cannon on their back. Unless baby tortoise gains giant cannons when they grow up.
GOOD pokemon shouldn't be modified? The what is Mewtwo? It's a Modified Pokemon created from Mew's genes.

Quick question. When have I said these Pokemon you are talking about are bad? I have bashed on maybe two Pokemon, and you are reacting as if I said the whole pack is trash. I didn't say that even once. I love Blitzle and Zebstrika, they remind me of Ponyta and Rapidash. Trubbish is a good concept, but I don't like the over-elaborate overhaul of the design. Pokemon wasn't as odd looking, with a freaking swirl on every Pokemon (you have to admit that almost all of Generation IV Pokemon have swirls like, all over them for some damn reason. As well as many unnecessary spikes and horns here and there.) Like I said before, Black and White's Pokemon took me by surprise, a lot of them are great, and take me back, but others are also bogus. I honestly couldn't name a bad Pokemon in the first Generation... I don't care what you think about that or have to say about it, opinions are opinions. I have been swayed to play, thus far, but didn't even get to the first gym in Platinum... The battles take forever because of the flashiness, and the catching also takes 20 seconds to catch a Pokemon. I decided I would start playing Flora Sky, instead, which, by the way, is the best hack I have ever seen, besides maybe Quartz. Quartz is hilarious. ^_^ So yeah, you claim that I am mindlessly bashing and saying I hate them all, but you really are just falsely accusing me.

 

[Kirbychu]

Maybe they do, but that's not what they're saying. I haven't seen a single person say anything bad about most of the Pokemon. There are a few evolution lines who get trashed, and the rest are ignored. Genosect, Trubbish, Vanillite, Oshawott, sometimes Litwick and Timburr, and that's about it. That's 15 Pokemon out of 156 that I've seen constantly criticized, but none of the others. If they really thought the whole generation is horrible, why do critics always retreat behind those Pokemon instead of explaining reasonably why they think the first generation is "OMG SO UBER BEST EVER"?

Weird, because I've seen practically every new Pokemon receive some hate.

People tend to use those particular Pokemon in arguments because they make it easier to get their point across. Those Pokemon you listed are great examples of almost every complaint that people have with newer Pokemon. You know what I'm talking about. Common complaints are that the newer Pokemon are over-designed, lacking creativity, ugly, and the they have too many round features.

This isn't directed towards you, because if I remember correctly we had a discussion about this on another thread (or maybe earlier in this thread?) and your reasoning was actually sound. It's most of the others that don't seem to think through what they're saying.

I knew that gentlemanly Cleffa looked familiar...

At dblanchette93, No one is taking away from the 1st gen, they're the originals, everyone shared memories with them. They are the ones that made us play and be dedicated to play every generation there is. But automatically calling a Pokemon bad because it's not on par with the originals, is just showing that they need to take off the nostalgia glasses. It happen to the 3rd gen, when everyone literally thrash the 3rd gen Pokemons until they played it and grew to them.

The funny thing about Gen 3 is that it used to be the most hated region but now it's one of the most beloved.

 

[dblanchette93]

I'm a Pokemon lover, just like the rest of you, and I am also not as big of a Generation I fan as you think I am. I love Generation II, and III was fantastic. Generation IV is last on my list, I just don't like the design. I am playing with Infernape, level 43, and he is pretty legit. Some of them in Generation IV are indeed very well put together. Generation, from what I've seen and have heard, is a game I need to get my hands on very soon. I am terribly sorry if what I say causes flame... I just would like to throw my say in.

 

[WildEagle]

Quick question. When have I said these Pokemon you are talking about are bad? I have bashed on maybe two Pokemon, and you are reacting as if I said the whole pack is trash. I didn't say that even once. I love Blitzle and Zebstrika, they remind me of Ponyta and Rapidash. Trubbish is a good concept, but I don't like the over-elaborate overhaul of the design. Pokemon wasn't as odd looking, with a freaking swirl on every Pokemon (you have to admit that almost all of Generation IV Pokemon have swirls like, all over them for some damn reason. As well as many unnecessary spikes and horns here and there.) Like I said before, Black and White's Pokemon took me by surprise, a lot of them are great, and take me back, but others are also bogus. I honestly couldn't name a bad Pokemon in the first Generation... I don't care what you think about that or have to say about it, opinions are opinions. I have been swayed to play, thus far, but didn't even get to the first gym in Platinum... The battles take forever because of the flashiness, and the catching also takes 20 seconds to catch a Pokemon. I decided I would start playing Flora Sky, instead, which, by the way, is the best hack I have ever seen, besides maybe Quartz. Quartz is hilarious. ^_^ So yeah, you claim that I am mindlessly bashing and saying I hate them all, but you really are just falsely accusing me.

Where did I say you bash the whole every gen.5 ? All I did was defending Vanillite and Genosect, because everyone is bashing and hating on it. Everyone has opinion, all I did is saying my opinion on how I think of Vanillite and Genosect.

Like I said before, the first gen was what made us all a pokemon fans, too many they are the greatest, no one can take that away. But I just can't stand the mindless bashing to some of the newer generation Pokemons because they are not on "par" with the originals.

 

[dblanchette93]

Maybe they do, but that's not what they're saying. I haven't seen a single person say anything bad about most of the Pokemon. There are a few evolution lines who get trashed, and the rest are ignored. Genosect, Trubbish, Vanillite, Oshawott, sometimes Litwick and Timburr, and that's about it. That's 15 Pokemon out of 156 that I've seen constantly criticized, but none of the others. If they really thought the whole generation is horrible, why do critics always retreat behind those Pokemon instead of explaining reasonably why they think the first generation is "OMG SO UBER BEST EVER"?

This isn't directed towards you, because if I remember correctly we had a discussion about this on another thread (or maybe earlier in this thread?) and your reasoning was actually sound. It's most of the others that don't seem to think through what they're saying.





Your second post on the forums called the new Pokemon generation an atrocity...nope, not bad at all.



First of all, it's ma'am. The gender is right there. Second of all, just like you have the right to dislike Pokemon because "Only Blastoise is allowed to have a cannon" or the ever-popular reason "They were first, therefore they're the best, end of discussion", I have the right to tell you that your reasons are not even remotely based in the actual designs of the Pokemon, but instead based in the goggles you insist on wearing. :/ When I discussed with Kirbychu and he pointed out that he doesn't enjoy the more cartoonish versions of the Pokemon, after discussing it a bit further, I agreed that they are more cartoonish in Gen V than Gen I. You're free to steal Kirby's reason if you'd like, then you can have a reason that can end your discussion with me without having to go through the effort of trying to explain your obviously complex, nostalgic feelings on why the first generation "will ALWAYS be the best" and the "atrocity Pokemon has become".

Why is it that I must continually say that I have been greatly swayed on my opinions, MA'AM? (Sorry about that...) I now see through many people's eyes what they believe are the best and why. They are mostly solid reasons. I have agreed with Kirbychu on just about every single post he has on this thread. I haven't seen an instance where he has gotten into a flame argument with me. I'm not saying it is just Blastoise's cannons... It's his design and Genosect's design that differs. I have most certainly implied on numerous occasions that I believe the design to be a bit more cartoonish. I have said that the originals are a bit more mature looking, while the newer ones aim toward the REALLY little kids. WildEagle provided evidence of this. Kids really DO love ice cream. Hell, I love ice cream, just... Not in Pokemon form. But kids probably do. The style is more child-based now, and I will go ahead and "copy" Kirbychu and say that it is more cartoonish now. Oh, and could you please answer the question aforementioned? "Why is it that I must continually say that I have been greatly swayed on my opinions, MA'AM?" Wanted to make sure you didn't forget... What I said when I started this thread was slanderous and kind of unacceptable... It was my first thread ever, gimme a break. >.< I don't want any hate, and no, I am not saying you are giving it. You are stating how you feel and sticking to it, and that's a good thing. Keep at it.

 

[WildEagle]

The funny thing about Gen 3 is that it used to be the most hated region but now it's one of the most beloved.

Exactly, everyone considered Hoenn and the Gen. 3 the worst Pokemon game ever, because of how different the Pokemon's design were. I respect people's opinion but the 3rd gen era was just plain nasty. It's funny now how everyone is wanting a remake of the Hoenn games.

 

[dblanchette93]

Exactly, everyone considered Hoenn and the Gen. 3 the worst Pokemon game ever, because of how different the Pokemon's design were. I respect people's opinion but the 3rd gen era was just plain nasty. It's funny now how everyone is wanting a remake of the Hoenn games.

I never hated Emerald. :3 Or Generation III as a whole, but especially Emerald.

 

[WildEagle]

@dblanchette93 We weren't talking about you. We were just saying how people handle the release of 3rd gen is just nasty, bashing and trashing the 3rd gen Pokemons, that everyone loves now.

 

[dblanchette93]

I know you weren't talking about me. Never said you were. All I'm saying is that there was probably an equal amount of likes and dislikes for Generation III when it came out. You are totally correct about most people loving it now.

 

[Aquacorde]

Are you joking? You must be. I remember being around the forums just after the initial shock of Gen III, and people were continually hating. I rarely saw even reluctant praise for Gen III. Hell, I despised Gen III and everything that came with it until I played Emerald, then I came to love it. I remember the point in-game where I first praised anything Hoenn- "You know, Mightyena is actually pretty good."

...ramblerambleramble

But the point is that the dislikes VASTLY outnumbered the likes.

 

[dblanchette93]

Well I had never experienced it back then. I just know that me and my group of friends loved Generation III. :P

 

[XtinaIsMeLuvinWWE]

My favourite generations are II and III, so I'd say a combination of old and new :) There's the nostalgia of the originals along with the new features of the newer generations, I think it just depends when you started playing.