5th Gen New TM's Disappointment?

[Xander Olivieri]

They actually picked the over used TMs that showed too much power and game breaking abilities to remove. The TM list update was a tactical one as the designers have been making more Competitive changes.

 

[Ho-Oh]

Why can't I have a an Iron Tailing Mienshao or a Dark Pulsing Liepard or a Giga Draining Simisage?

Oh yes, Liepard @ Nasty Plot w/ Dark Pulse would be awesome. Not really a fan of the other two, but that one definitely would be awesome! :(

@XanderO: I personally don't feel they're more competitive changes. Removing Stealth Rock certainly isn't a positive for those who play competitively, for one. ;x Also, Drain Punch/Dragon Pulse/Giga Drain/Dark Pulse are nowhere near game-breaking, imo.

 

[giradialkia]

I was hugely delighted that TMs had been made permanent in Black and White, but otherwise I found most of the actual move changes were quite unwelcome. I guess they felt change was necessary or something, seeing as the initial 50 from the 4th generation were also used in the 3rd generation, so another generation with the same TMs might have seemed a bit silly to the makers?
As most have said, I miss the likes of Shock Wave, Giga Drain, Iron Tail, and basically any other TM that taught a damaging move.

 

[bobandbill]

The one real positive in hindsight for me was that TMs became perma-items.

Otherwise I disliked the TM changes. Sure, some moves were neat to have, and there's no point pretending that the first 80+ didn't have their fair share of rubbish moves too. And I suppose it would be weird every gen to add on more and more moves and end up with over a 100 separate TMs.

But the main reason I disliked it is the consequence of ditching the old ones; you could no longer transfer any items (thus far for bw anyways) from 4th gen games to 5th, because the TMs between two games were different. This I found quite annoying; Game Freak could surely have easily just placed a restriction on TMs and not any item whatsoever. And I liked being able to use old TMs too, and the lack of any transferal of them (not even a representation of them in Move Tutors) I found disappointing (but not too surprising given it felts that BW had been rushed out in various aspects including this one).

 

[Sydian]

TM19 Telekinesis > Giga Drain
TM23 Smack Down > Iron Tail
TM47 Low Sweep > Steel Wing
TM48 Round > Skill Swap
TM51 Ally Switch > Roost
TM59 Incinerate > Dragon Pulse
TM60 Quash > Drain Punch
TM76 Struggle Bug > Stealth Rock
TM79 Frost Breath > Dark Pulse

Quoted the changes I hate. I actually got a Dark Pulse Gyarados on Diamond the other night to specifically transfer to Black and breed a Dark Pulse Deino lol. :( NOW. It'd be a lot easier if Frost Breath, the dumbest move ev-- k not ever, didn't have to take its place. >:o

 

[Chiar]

It really angers me that they swapped useful moves with very situational attacks like Telekinesis, Ally Switch or Incinerate. Most of the other changes are okay, though.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

Sadly a lot of the attacks aren't well known for what they can do.

Telekinesis is a 3 turn Lock On/Mind Reader. For the duration of Telekinesis low accuracy attacks are auto hits.

Ally Switch comes in handy for Triple Battles if you have a match up you don't like and cannot switch out your Pokemon.

Frost Breath is an instant Critical, but it on a Sniper Pokemon and you can cause some serious damage. Either way its Base Power thanks to its Critical is the same as Dark Pulse

Smack Down is Anti-Levitate which is good if you are using a Pokemon with Earthquake in a Double or Triple Battle.

Sludge Wave is one of a few new moves that require the opponent to be under Status effects. If Poisoned its power Doubles, with how common Poison Status is in Wifi Battles, this is a decent attack.

Flame Charge, while overwhelmingly weak later on, it is Agility + Fire Damage.

Struggle Bug and Snarl are also two really good TMs if you know how to use them. They automatically lower Special Attack. Psychics hit by either of these get substantial damage done and lose an edge in their own attacks.

Incinerate is anti-Berry Tactics.

All of the attacks have decent uses and replaced some of the attacks that Gamefreak didn't want to run rampant in the Wifi Community. Stealth Rock, while thinned out, was potentially game breaking in online battles, I mean nearly everything that was used in Wifi could use it. Still a large number of Pokemon can learn it.

Dark and Dragon Pulse were the same way. The Creators saw them as too big of a threat.

A few of the creators do design a lot of the new aspects with the Meta in mind, from memory one of the creators enjoys the meta and is fairly involved with it. Pokemon has had a very slow increase in potential with its online battles and Gamefreak just keeps trying to improve it with each new game.

 

[Tachikaze]

Unova's TM's are kind of bad, compared the the previous ones. In a generation with ridiculously powerful Pokemon, it doesn't make sense to provide most supplementary and gimmicky TMs. Serperior needs things like Earthquake or Dragon Pulse, not Grass Oath, lol.

 

[Legobricks]

Frost Breath is an instant Critical, but it on a Sniper Pokemon and you can cause some serious damage. Either way its Base Power thanks to its Critical is the same as Dark Pulse

Additionally, for those who may not know: in always being critical it ignores stat modifiers (lowered user's special attack and heightened foe's special defence, namely).

 

[DarkWolf13]

Well the only time Frost Breath doesn't deal critical damage is if it's used on a Pokemon with Battle/Shell Armor, I have that move on my Lapras and I think my Dewgong. And @Xander: I thought Venoshock deal double damage on Poisoned targets. I don't understand the aspects of competitive battling. It makes me feel like this game is to be played seriously...

 

[Xander Olivieri]

Well the only time Frost Breath doesn't deal critical damage is if it's used on a Pokemon with Battle/Shell Armor, I have that move on my Lapras and I think my Dewgong. And @Xander: I thought Venoshock deal double damage on Poisoned targets. I don't understand the aspects of competitive battling. It makes me feel like this game is to be played seriously...

My bad. I was thinking of Venoshock when talking about Sludge Wave.

Although Sludge Wave is the second highest Poison attack on the list if you don't count a Poisoned Foe getting hit by Venoshock.

 

[miltankRancher]

TM23 Smack Down > Iron Tail
TM51 Ally Switch > Roost
TM59 Incinerate > Dragon Pulse
TM60 Quash > Drain Punch
TM76 Struggle Bug > Stealth Rock
TM79 Frost Breath > Dark Pulse

I am pretty much disappointed by these replaces. i mean, SR is really a good lead move, and now they removed it, thereby limiting its distribution. Also, the others were good moves and were replaced by sub-quality moces. I mean, Ally Switch? Quash? Frost Breath is a good move, but Dark Pulse is way more better.

 

[SirDevin]

iron tail

[SIZE="a"]Omg I miss iron tail that was my shizz but good thing you can find a way to breed a move on a Pokemon with all the different types! Which makes chances for some pokemon to learn crazy different typed moves which I love cuz now it's a lot more difficult to predict a battle[/SIZE]

 

[Ho-Oh]

I just had an idea... since the new games = sequels, maybe the TMs we didn't have will be available in those games, maybe they weren't "developed" in Unova yet? I kinda like that idea, since removing all those TMs I'm still not a fan of. ;x

 

[何贤豪]

Well, I don't have any problems with the new TMs, but...Giga Drain being removed is something that a DW Venusaur would really hate.

 

[skyluigi2]

To be honest, I think the reason for this is that TMs aren't broken after one use now.

 

[MoreThanLuck]

I think anything they did is made up for in the fact that TMs are reusable.