Occupy Wall Street

[FreakyLocz14]

And do you think it would get passed?

And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.
And whether or not corporations are people, they have every right to influence our political process.


This is why we are protesting.



99 to 1. Those sound like damn good odds to me. This is not the time to give up when we've already gained so much momentum. They may have won this one battle in Zucotti Park, but they have not won the war.

Thursday.

November 17th, 2011.

International Day of Action.

Shut Down Wall Street.

That all depends on who the judge you are in front of is. If you're claiming that your civil rights were violated, you can even have a jury trial.

You can continue to protest, but don't be surprised if at the police responding to criminal activity.

 

[Guest123_x1]

Our voices don't mean **** when the 1% can easily shut us up with their money and continue manipulating the rules to their advantage.

With many of our government officials being bought and paid for by corporate interests, that's totally expected. Especially when supported by a ruthless central bank busy printing shiploads of money to the point that our currency is worthless to help their buddies that is essentially our fourth branch of government.

 

[jpp8]

Does it even matter who the judge is as long as wall street is in control? Lucy Billings. Issued a restraining order against NYPD that would allow protestors back into the park. But within hours, she was off the case as court administrators chose a new judge — and excluded Billings' name from the list of candidates.

Also, I wish I had paid attention and noted links more often so I could show that banks and big business are pretty guilty of criminal acts as well instead of just laying out a baseless claim as I am now.

 

[Livewire]

Does it even matter who the judge is as long as wall street is in control? Lucy Billings. Issued a restraining order against NYPD that would allow protestors back into the park. But within hours, she was off the case as court administrators chose a new judge — and excluded Billings' name from the list of candidates.

Also, I wish I had paid attention and noted links more often so I could show that banks and big business are pretty guilty of criminal acts as well instead of just laying out a baseless claim as I am now.

That's.... nuts. I can't believe they actually did that. Bloomberg should be ashamed of himself. He's only giving them more ammunition.

 

[jpp8]

Did someone say "ammunition"?

"They pulled me out by the stethoscope, white coat and all as I was telling them I have a patient in there. One girl has a heart condition and wasn't feeling well. They manhandled her and threw her on the ground."

Attack on a clearly marked medical facility. This is what is known as a War crime

 

[Mr. X]

How can it be a war crime if their is no deceleration of war against OWS?

Legally the police were allowed to remove the medical tent. But still, they should have transported all the people within to proper medical facilities.

Edit

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion...-space-unsanitary-shantytown-article-1.977734

I'll sum this article up.

The amorphous agglomeration known as Occupy Wall Street had transformed a space intended for open community access into a round-the-clock shantytown — and they claimed that the First Amendment guaranteed their right to do as they pleased.

This is not constitutional wisdom. This is a self-important, self-indulgent bilge.

As cops moved in, the occupiers chanted, "Whose park? Our park!"

Whose park? Not theirs. The ground is privately owned space dedicated to public use

Occupy Wall Streeters are welcome to return to state their pieces but not to squat on every available inch

"The law that created Zuccotti Park required that it be open for the public to enjoy for passive recreation 24 hours a day. Ever since the occupation began, that law has not been complied with."

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Does it even matter who the judge is as long as wall street is in control? Lucy Billings. Issued a restraining order against NYPD that would allow protestors back into the park. But within hours, she was off the case as court administrators chose a new judge — and excluded Billings' name from the list of candidates.

Also, I wish I had paid attention and noted links more often so I could show that banks and big business are pretty guilty of criminal acts as well instead of just laying out a baseless claim as I am now.

That makes perfect sense. A restraining order keeps the cops from doing their job.

 

[jpp8]

How can it be a war crime if their is no deceleration of war against OWS?

Legally the police were allowed to remove the medical tent. But still, they should have transported all the people within to proper medical facilities

So because there was no formal "declaration of war", that gives NYPD the ability to violate the Geneva Conventions? Serious question. I'm not sure if it's a loophole or not.

I will not argue that the protestors may have overstayed their welcome though. I've been convinced enough.

That makes perfect sense. A restraining order keeps the cops from doing their job.

What is their job? Protecting and serving our health and safety? Seems legit. (Trigger warning for violence)

 

[FreakyLocz14]

So because there was no formal "declaration of war", that gives NYPD the ability to violate the Geneva Conventions? Serious question. I'm not sure if it's a loophole or not.

I will not argue that the protestors may have overstayed their welcome though. I've been convinced enough.

What is their job? Protecting and serving our health and safety? Seems legit. (Trigger warning for violence)

Their job is to enforce the law. The protesters were not compliant with the law.

 

[jpp8]

The economic system is against the 99 percent. The law is against the 99 percent. The judicial system is against the 99 percent. And now, the enforcers are against the 99 percent.

All of these institutions now serve for the benefit of the top 1 percent of wage earners. This. is why why we are protesting.
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of leaders…and millions have been killed because of this obedience…Our problem is that people are obedient allover the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves… (and) the grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem." - Howard Zinn

EDIT: https://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/AdamGabbatt/status/136529537851858946/photo/1

 

[Mr. X]

If your going to be practicing civil disobedience then you have no right to ***** and moan when the police do their jobs, which in this case is enforcing the laws that you are disobeying.

As I said earlier, if they want to protest fine. Protest all you wish. Just don't break any laws while doing so.

I'll leave you with this though. The difference between a protest and rebellion? A protest is done within the bounds of the law. A rebellion disregards laws.

Edit - Also your statement about the law being against the 99% is a complete load of crap. The law is against criminals, aka, those who break the law.

 

[jpp8]

Illegal extended occupation in a park with the use of tents = Pepper spray, sound cannons, and otherwise excessive force. If you feel OK to the extent of which these officers are "enforcing" the law, then I can't change your mind.

If refusing to leave an area because you are making a statement for what you believe in and using a tent to do so is a rebellion in your view, so be it. Occupy is not a simple 1-day, in and out protest though. "The power of this symbolic speech is that it's a 24-hour occupation. This conveys a special message." - OWS lawyer

EDIT: Again, that was my hasty generalization. Apologies for that.

EDIT 2: Electric Bugaloo:

Relevant to OWS. (language warning obviously)

 

[Mr. X]

Are they giving the police any other option besides having the use this kind of force? No.

But if you'd rather police only be able to tell criminals to 'stop breaking the law, please' then go and change the laws to make it so thats all they can do.

As I've said earlier, don't hate the people enforcing laws. Hate the laws.

And you know what their message conveys? We know we are breaking laws, and we don't care.

 

[jpp8]

These protestors are non-violent. Pepper gassing and fisticuffs are surely the ONLY option available. And if they are, then so be it. I concede.

I never said that officers should just passively tell the protestors to leave, but they could've used only the bare minimum amount of force needed. In my view, pepper gas, sound cannons, etc. seem like excessive force, but, again, if that was the minimum, then I concede.

I would if I could sympathize with the officers. But what do they do? Issue media blackouts to ensure that they can't be held liable by the press for their methods. Now they just seem like tools of the system.

Valid argument. I concede.

 

[Mr. X]

If the protesters refuse to comply, some form of force has to be used. I'll list other options though. Guns, Tasers, Attack Dogs, Nightsticks, SWAT team deployment. Out of all these options, pepper spraying and fists seem to be the options that pose the least chance of causing lasting harm to the protesters. Personally, i'd rather be pepper sprayed then shot, tased, beat up with a stick, or attacked by a attack dog.

That said, some police stations have policies that require them to issue blackouts when raiding a area. Its a preventive measure to ensure that the raid target doesn't know about a possible raid and is therefor unable to take measures that would cause harm to the officers conducting the raid. But I agree with you on that, the blackout was a pretty stupid move.

 

[jpp8]

I was hoping there could be less forceful methods than painful pepper spray and fists, but I can't think of any. I still don't like it, but the NYPD may have been justified in their methods of dispersing the protesters in Zucotti. I still absolutely loathe the notion that you all are labeling them as if they were hardened criminals just for tents.


In other news: Homeland security behind numerous Occupy raids.

I'm not entirely sure what this means or entails, but I whatever I'm thinking right now is probably completely wrong and the dispersing of these occupy movements is a great victory for our justice system. Let's stick it to those campers instead of addressing the massive corruption in our political and economic system.

 

[Mr. X]

Im not labeling them. They labeled themselves when they decided to break laws.

https://occupywallst.org/article/poster-n17-mass-direct-action-print-and-post-freel/

Poster for their occupy event tomorrow. As for the poster design and one aspect of what they intend to do, this comment sums up my thoughts.

Agreed. The look of the poster is a direct appropriation of propaganda posters in Russia around 1917. (Go to the Museum of Modern Art to see examples, or Google "russian propaganda posters".) I don't think that taking the graphic style associated with Socialist revolution and Stalin is going to win over many supporters in this country.

I am a big supporter of OWS, (and I think the poster is beautiful, too) but I think this is inappropriate and self-defeating.

I feel the same way about Occupy the Subway. I am absolutely certain that it is a harmful, counterproductive thing to do. We want to gain support, not harm and alienate our fellow workers. This will CLEARLY do the latter,

Edit - Another comment that I agree with. It has also changed my views on this movement slightly as well.

OWS is really when you think about it a Marxist style movement. Any movement that cries for equality and equal and fair distribution of wealth is communist based whether they realize it or not.

Im kinda saddened that I never made this connection. I support aspects of Marxism, as does anyone supporting this movement, so this has caused me to have a little more respect for the movement.

 

[Oryx]

I think the idea is to gather more support by bringing the movement to the rest of the working people so they can't just say "not my problem" and go on passively with their lives. It might not work but since the numbers are slightly dwindling due to cold weather and length of time, they would obviously want to fire up some fresh blood.

That poster is gorgeous though.

 

[Netto Azure]

To be quite honest this legacy trope of the Cold-War that Communism = Socialism = Hippies = Evil is a very misleading straw-man argument that simply wishes to magically wave away proper debate on the underlying issues that OWS is trying to bring to light.

It's been used so many times (to great effect btw) that I sometimes despair that the "average American" should at least be treated to a proper debate of the issues rather than running away from it with pre-digested sound bites and the like.

And seriously to me the Occupy movement is a modern version of Hoovervilles that constantly reminded the American Public of the real economic problems of the day.

Heck the same issues brought up in the Great Depression bubbles up in today's debates.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Vagrancy laws and squatting laws are what are being violating. Homeless people also go through them. You can't just live outside.