Otakus and Weeaboos Ruining Anime?

Of course the real answer is neither, surely you aren't judging anime experience on what somebody on the internet says.

Unless I've suddenly made you realise how bad Titans actually was. In which case, sorry. At least you can be on your way to finding the thousands of better shows now though.
 
Weeaboo Name said:
Unless I've suddenly made you realise how bad Titans actually was. In which case, sorry. At least you can be on your way to finding the thousands of better shows now though.
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No, there's no need to apologize.

That's because Titans wasn't bad.
 
CarcharOdin said:
Really?

Because I gotta tell you, after years of seeing the anime market crammed with nothing but moe, slice of life, cutesy shit, harem animes, and stereotypical shonens, Attack On Titan felt like a breath of cluckin' fresh air.
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Durarara, Baccano, Mushishi, Mnemosyne, Speed Grapher, Gankutsuou...there's a lot out there. The anime market may be saturated, but there's a good amount of original and/or cliche-dodging stuff out there.

The only thing about AoT that I think is significant is that it's popular, but it does make sense when you consider some things. I don't think Weebtrap was far off with the whole "Angsty superpower hero and his friends save the world from x." angle. Eren's pretty much the tragic past dark haired main with The One syndrome, at least in the anime (the same holds true in the manga, but the angst is applied to a much smaller degree). I think the gore's justified and the characters aren't bad (in the manga, at least, I feel they're too liberal with characters' personalities in the anime), but it does still appeal to the same people as SAO did during its early episodes.

But all things considered, what I watched of the anime was hard to defend due to the pacing (and really, other factors. I'm not gonna go on a tirade about my thoughts on the show, though I do enjoy and actively follow the manga). It doesn't exactly tell a lot of the story in the 24 episodes that it has. But my point in all this is that if you look at other anime from the same season, like Flowers of Evil, Devil Survivor 2, or Space Brothers, all of which were popular to some extent (well, Flowers of Evil was more of a point of interest due to its style), it's not like there was no other haven for someone that wanted to find something different in the supposed sea of moe and cutesyness.
 
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No, they aren't.
On the contrary, they save the industry.
If they didn't exist, no one would be buying merchandise and nothing new would be made.

CarcharOdin said:
and stereotypical shonens, Attack On Titan felt like a breath of psyduckin' fresh air.
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Seriously? Eotenas was shounen put on shounen with shounen cherry.
 
Satoshi Ookami said:
No, they aren't.
On the contrary, they save the industry.
If they didn't exist, no one would be buying merchandise and nothing new would be made.
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Well, otaku. Weeaboos aren't exactly the biggest contributors.

And I would say they certainly do a good deal to keep anime as a business alive, but the effect they have on the industry in terms of content could easily be seen as adverse.
 
Pretty much as stated. Fans run the trends of the industry. I've talked about this for quite some time, but the Japanese otakus have a huge influence in the industry since they're the ones directly funding whatever gets made. The rise of fan service and pandering is an outgrowth of the competition for cash and mercy sales.

Still at the end of the day a lot of these are subjective.
 
CarcharOdin said:
Because I gotta tell you, after years of seeing the anime market crammed with nothing but moe, slice of life, cutesy muk, harem animes, and stereotypical shonens, Attack On Titan felt like a breath of psyduckin' fresh air.
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This is what I've been trying to talk about at the OP regarding on pandering to the otaku culture and weeaboos. The anime industry has been oversaturated by these anime genres, which cause people like CharcharOdin a huge dislike to anime in general and move over to western cartoons, who often times parodies the weirdness of anime (warning: link contains a bit of strong language).


It was a 'stereotypical shounen', even worse than the usual ones though imo. Angsty superpower hero and his friends save the world from x. MUH REVENGE. MUH GORE. MUCH GENERIC CHARACTER ARCHETYPES.
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I never understood why AoT is being labeled as "edgy" but not KlK, which follows much of the criteria of being edgy (protagonist wearing black & red like Shadow and new Dante, constant swearing, over-the-top violence).
 
Pinkie-Dawn said:
This is what I've been trying to talk about at the OP regarding on pandering to the otaku culture and weeaboos. The anime industry has been oversaturated by these anime genres, which cause people like CharcharOdin a huge dislike to anime in general and move over to western cartoons, who often times parodies the weirdness of anime (warning: link contains a bit of strong language).
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Anime doesn't pander to weeaboos. Weeaboos don't dictate or have any sort of hold on the state of anime because one, there aren't enough of them to do so, and two, a good number of those same weeaboos download their anime illegally and buy their imports second-hand.

And we get that. Otaku are a large chunk of the consumers in Japan (and elsewhere, really) and the anime industry does pander to them. It does bother me to some extent, mainly because it's the non-discriminatory nature of the anime masses that cause things to stay the same. It's because there's no push for change that nothing does.


Pinkie-Dawn said:
I never understood why AoT is being labeled as "edgy" but not KlK, which follows much of the criteria of being edgy (protagonist wearing black & red like Shadow and new Dante, constant swearing, over-the-top violence).
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Because Ryuko isn't an edgy dark haired protagonist. Yeah, she wants revenge, and yeah, she wears black, but there's also a lot of tan and red as well (because, really, New Dante and Shadow aren't exactly trope codifiers). Kill la Kill isn't about a dark story with a gritty atmosphere and death always being on the horizon. It's story is dark (to an extent), but it's not to the level of "shadows everywhere, emboss everything, tension lines for tension, gonna nom on your friends" AoT.

Ryuko's anger and revenge are often played for laughs, as are she and her powers. What's more, the show rather quickly tosses her "Kill anyone in my way" attitude as she starts to grow as a woman and as a family person. The violence is also played for laughs at points (especially early on). It may have a lot of blood and a lot of violence, but nowhere near as much as AoT or gory shows, and they manage to weave the blood and violence into the story. It's not edgy because it's not really trying to be, luring the viewer in with the concept but ultimately trying to hook them with the story and characters. And the costumes, anti-ecchi at its best. And sure, it goes overboard with the blood and the pain at times, yeah, but that's just some Trigger, ex-Gainax charm.

Dem scissors, though. About as edgy as you can get.
 
Wait, hang on, is all the action and fightin' stuff "shonen"? My bad, guys, I meant to say "shoujos." Sorry, it was 3:30 in the morning and I can't be bothered to be arsed with Japanese words and shit.

Yeah, shonen I don't have a problem with, but Pinkie-Dawn's link pretty much does explain why I liked Attack On Titan so much:

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/714209-south-park

Also, the protagonist can turn into a giant and punches the hell out of other giants. If you didn't like that, there's something wrong with you.
 
CarcharOdin said:
Yeah, shonen I don't have a problem with, but Pinkie-Dawn's link pretty much does explain why I liked Attack On Titan so much:

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/714209-south-park

Also, the protagonist can turn into a giant and punches the hell out of other giants. If you didn't like that, there's something wrong with you.
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Wait, so are you saying anime's lost its testosterone? Because that kinda stuff is still very popular. Kill la Kill, SAO, Dragon Ball BoG, Jojo- it all still exists. In fact, all things considered, that does put things in perspective, why AoT is so popular.

I do see this growing trend of mostly one-dimensional protagonists getting a lot of love because they look cool or have moments of budget, and I think Eren fits the bill to some extent. He's not really that interesting but, at the same time, he has The One syndrome and can turn giant which, to the masses, makes him an awesome character (another anime I listed takes this in spades). But for me, even when I see moments of badassery, when they involve a character I don't like I just can't get into the fights themselves. I can acknowledge that they are well done scenes (or...well, I'll see them more for what they are), but because I'm not really hoping the protagonist will come out on top (or the "good guy", I should say), I'm not nearly invested in what's going on. But it does well for the show's popularity, and if that's what you enjoy about it, more power to you.
 
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machomuu said:
Wait, so are you saying anime's lost its testosterone? Because that kinda stuff is still very popular. Kill la Kill, SAO, Dragon Ball BoG, Jojo- it all still exists. In fact, all things considered, that does put things in perspective, why AoT is so popular.

I do see this growing trend of mostly one-dimensional protagonists getting a lot of love because that look cool or have moments of budget, and I think Eren fits the bill to some extent. He's not really that interesting but, at the same time, he has The One syndrome and can turn giant which, to the masses, makes him an awesome character (another anime I listed takes this in spades). But for me, even when I see moments of badassery, when they involve a character I don't like I just can't get into the fights themselves. I can acknowledge that they are well done scenes (or...well, I'll see them more for what they are), but because I'm not really hoping the protagonist will come out on top (or the "good guy", I should say), I'm not nearly invested in what's going on. But it does well for the show's popularity, and if that's what you enjoy about it, more power to you.
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Right, exactly.

It was the sheer testosterone from things like DBZ and Fist Of The North Star (although I do branch out into other things) that got me into anime in the first place and it's why I like AoT, because it had that grit, that grimdark machismo action feeling that I felt was sorely missing from anime as of late.

Of course, most of my exposure to anime these days comes from my anime club and we normally watch a variety of different things that are usually either hit or miss with me, so I guess my opinion is colored somewhat.
 
I'll be honest, I'm not very fond of the 3moe5moi shows that flock the place. But while it is indeed true that we've been seeing those kinds of shows much more than ever before, it doesn't really take away from the fact that there are still plenty of quality shows that are being put out every season - it takes a little more effort at times to look for them among the sea of mediocrity with shows possessing very similar generic art styles but that doesn't mean they are non-existent. This year itself saw the release of shows like Ping-Pong, Mushishi, Gekkan-Shoujo Nozaki-kun and Barakamon which didn't possess any of the elements which could be considered otaku-bait (Nozaki and Barakamon contained a few scenes that are jokes on fujoshis and parodies of typical shoujo stuff with yaoi undertones respectively but that's kinda unrelated). All of them were excellent watches. Fall itself had a few series like that - Parasyte, Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso, Shingeki no Bahamut, Akatsuki no Yona - hell, we even have grimdark and edgy stuff in Psycho Pass 2. So yeah, plenty to be found, really. Shingeki no Kyojin/Attack on Titan did nothing new. Sure, its reach managed to reach a much wider audience and hence may seem like one of the only few instances where anime diverged from the norm of having qts with racks serving as nothing but fanservice bait. But, like Laptrap said, you only need to look a little closely to find that there are a lot of other anime out there who did stuff that doesn't fall in the category being discussed here.

But yeah, coming back on topic, I personally think that my stance on Otakus and Weeaboos is pretty much neutral. Sure, it is because of them that the market is oversaturated with shows that people like to label as "otaku-pandering" muk but I honestly don't find myself running out of non-muk-y shows either. So, in the end, as long as these anime that I like don't disappear in their entirety (which they won't anytime soon), I don't really mind.

To be honest I'm not really one to speak. A majority, naah, all of the anime that I possess is illegal. The studios gain nothing from people like me. While a majority of these otakus are serving as THE backbones for the industry. They're the ones who go out there and buy those super-expensive $60 volumes that contain merely two-three episodes per volume. I can't really blame the production houses for trying to "pander" to these people - they're the target audience, after all. Unless there's some way the anime industry as a whole gains a much broader reach and prices go down, they've no choice but to rely on these people who eat up any series with tons of fanservice and stereotypical elements.

People from 4chan and the extreme cases mentioned in the thread a while earlier...those people need to take a serious chill pill, though. Being an obsessed fan is alright, tbh, as long as you maintain some limits. Unfortunately, people who are willing to step over the line aren't as rare as I'd like to think they are.
 
CarcharOdin said:
Wait, hang on, is all the action and fightin' stuff "shonen"? My bad, guys, I meant to say "shoujos." Sorry, it was 3:30 in the morning and I can't be bothered to be arsed with Japanese words and muk.

Yeah, shonen I don't have a problem with, but Pinkie-Dawn's link pretty much does explain why I liked Attack On Titan so much:

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/714209-south-park

Also, the protagonist can turn into a giant and punches the hell out of other giants. If you didn't like that, there's something wrong with you.
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That's not true. There are so much anime that isn't shoujo/romance/slice of life. Just this season we had so many series that weren't shoujo/cutesy/slice of life(like Parasyte, Terra Formars, Shingeki no Bahamut Genesis, Psycho Pass 2, Nanatsu no Taizai, Mushishi, Log Horizon 2, Chaika, Gundam and Fate/stay Night).
There's also stuff like Magi, FMA, JoJo, TTGL, HxH, Gintama(and these are all from popular franchises). There is still a lot more good stuff that isn't famous. If you think that anime these past years consists of only moe/cutesy stuff it shows that you're either a new fan of anime or you only watch mainstream stuff(Or you base your opinion on stuff that other people say, instead of you forming your own opinion).
 
CarcharOdin said:
Also, the protagonist can turn into a giant and punches the hell out of other giants. If you didn't like that, there's something wrong with you.
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So this pretty much was all about you being a 14 year old with no attention span.

I didn't think it would get much worse than this but then you started hating on shoujo. Why.

How can you not know that they make all of the best anime for girls.



As for kill la kill, that isn't edgy but the protagonist is. Didn't really like that show much either, was better than Titans though.
 
Synchronous said:
Oi. Don't worry. Laptrap's known to have a strong opinion. You aren't the first to be offended by his words, and you probably won't be the last. It's better to just take them with a grain of salt.
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As I recall, he was banned a while ago.

I was confused as to why because I was paying attention to other things in the forum, but now I'm beginning to see why.
 
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