Passing back and forth [OU]

[Farasha]

Note: I build teams with Pokemon I like to use, not necessarily what is "best" for the job.

I've been using this team for a while and I've had a few successes with it. My goal is to make this specific combination of these Pokemon the best it can possibly be. I know this team probably won't be winning any tournaments, but I'd like to cover holes as best I can.

Preview: *pokemonelite2000 image removed* *pokemonelite2000 image removed* *pokemonelite2000 image removed* *pokemonelite2000 image removed* *pokemonelite2000 image removed* *pokemonelite2000 image removed*

Flit: Pass Lead
Ninjask @ Leftovers
Jolly - Speed boost
176 HP/252 Atk/80 Spe
* Substitute
* Swords Dance
* Baton Pass
* X-Scissor

At several people's suggestions, I have added Flit to the team. His job is to Sub+SD as long as he can, and then Baton Pass to one of my attackers, who take those boosts and rape. I haven't tested this strategy yet, but it seems viable.

Glaive: Stealth Rock
Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Impish - Keen Eye
252 HP/64 Atk/176 Def/16 Spe
* Brave Bird
* Roost
* Stealth Rock
* Whirlwind

Standard Skarmory set. I've used this set many times to great success. Practically all of my teams have this Skarmory variant on them. Setting up Stealth Rock and abusing Whirlwind weakens the opponent to make it easier for my otherwise fragile attackers.

Aderyn: Heavy Hitter
Empoleon @ Leftovers
Adamant - Torrent
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
* Surf
* Ice Beam
* Drill Peck
* Earthquake

With the speed boost Aderyn will get from Ninjask, he is better able to put the hurt on with a punishing Special set. STAB Surf hits hard, Ice Beam counters Mence and other dragons, Drill Peck hurts Grass switch-ins and Earthquake owns any electric types that try to take him down, unless they have Levitate.

Flashstrike: Special Attacker
Zapdos @ Life Orb
Timid - Pressure
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
* Heat Wave
* HP Grass
* Roost
* Thunderbolt

Flashstrike really puts the hurt on, and has the potential for a massive sweep. If he gets the extra Agility boost, all the better. HP Grass is there to take out any ground or rock types trying to Stone Edge him down, Roost heals Life Orb damage, and the rest of the set combine to make him both punishing and annoying.

Hywel: Physical Attacker
Lucario @ Life Orb
Adamant - Inner Focus
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
* Close Combat
* Bullet Punch
* Stone Edge
* Crunch

Since my team previously had four birds and nothing to cover the weakness, I have switched Staraptor in favor of Hywel. I have thought several times about using a Lucario but never have for some reason - now, looking at his moveset, I have to wonder why. Close Combat, Stone Edge and Crunch are obvious choices. I have Bullet Punch > Extreemspeed because with a speed boost from Ninjask, the attack loses its surprise factor. Plus, switching Umbreon in favor of Vaporeon means I have lost my Gengar counter - now I have a new one.

Aariel: Team Support
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Bold - Water Absorb
188 HP/252 Def/68 Spe
* Wish
* Baton Pass
* Substitute
* Ice Beam

Deciding between Umbreon and Vaporeon was tough - until I added Lucario. Since Umbreon's only place on the team as a counter was taken care of, Vaporeon became the natural choice. High HP means that the Substitutes Aariel creates won't be knocked down like poor Ninjask's. Not having a STAB move was another difficult decision, but I felt that keeping her alive and able to keep passing Subs and Wish was more important, and knocking out grass counters and having another Pokemon to take care of those pesky dragons is a bonus.

Fire away!
​

 

[Dark Azelf]

I basically edited out your pics because the above happened....lol

Ill come back for an actual rate later.

 

[Farasha]

I basically edited out your pics because the above happened....lol

Ill come back for an actual rate later.

I'm not allowed to use recolors if I'm actually using the Shiny version on Shoddy?

 

[coolkidmitch]

Let me see if I can sell Dodrio to you as opposed to Starraptor.

Here is my suggestion of running it as and Ill explain why after:

Dodrio @ Choice Band
Adamant - Intimidate
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
* Brave Bird
* Tri Attack
* Return
* Pursuit

you can keep the same move set, he is just as fast as Staraptor, and his stats are higher in attack. The only change would be Tri Attack. I know that your concern is that he is frail, but he's a flying type, they are usually all weak. Since you are running something with a big OOMF, why not something that has a higher attack. Not to mention Tri-attack would give you status effects (and you know how much I luuurve status effects) If can really add some extra surpise to your team.

I would love to see more people running Dodrio, in game, its one of my favoritse. If you dont like the set I gave you (which is the same as Starptor but with triattack), take another look at him. I know he's a little different and not used as much, but with Tri-attack, it can make him deadly.

 

[Skip Shot]

Let me see if I can sell Dodrio to you as opposed to Starraptor.

Here is my suggestion of running it as and Ill explain why after:

Dodrio @ Choice Band
Adamant - Intimidate
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
* Brave Bird
* Tri Attack
* Return
* Pursuit

you can keep the same move set, he is just as fast as Staraptor, and his stats are higher in attack. The only change would be Tri Attack. I know that your concern is that he is frail, but he's a flying type, they are usually all weak. Since you are running something with a big OOMF, why not something that has a higher attack. Not to mention Tri-attack would give you status effects (and you know how much I luuurve status effects) If can really add some extra surpise to your team.

I would love to see more people running Dodrio, in game, its one of my favoritse. If you dont like the set I gave you (which is the same as Starptor but with triattack), take another look at him. I know he's a little different and not used as much, but with Tri-attack, it can make him deadly.

But Tri-Attack is a special move, and Dodrio has horrible Special Attack. Status really doesn't matter, another Pokemon on his team can inflict status.

I'll leave the expert rating up to Anti/D_A/Vance, but as of now, I can say that Ninjask does a better job than Rapidash at passing off Boosts, and Empoleon won't need Swords Dance in that case (btw, SD Empo sucks unless Torrent activates or u get +6 Attack. Empo's physical movepool sucks).

 

[coolkidmitch]

Also your giant hole to fire types scares me a bit. I know your Rapidash has flash fire, but man. It makes nervous. I would suggestion switching out Empoleon for a Kingdra or Quagsire or even a Whishcash, that way you can keep in earthquake (which gain Stab!). that way any fire types will bow before your presence, again, just another suggestion. This Worries me (XD)

I agree with you Skipshot on the Ninjask, one running protect can easily get all the boosted speed you need to baton pass out. I know that tri attack is special and that his special sucks, but his attack is higher than staraptor and the speed is the same, AND she can run the same move set, just with another addition. Close combat is good, but only for one time use, after that the attack she once had with the staraptor is gone.

I do suggestion that you run something else with a fighting move to cover the big normal hitters, it would just be a waste on a good flying type with big attack power.

 

[Magmortified]

Sounds like a horrible, unreliable idea, using Tri Attack. The point of CB is to do as much damage as possible. Not to go for the lottery on status effects. :S

It seems that there are better ways to try for a sweep than using Empoleon. Baton Pass is usually most useful for getting a quick and decisive win, with maybe some backup if things go awry. You've got Skarmory here... I don't know why. Empoleon relies on SD to even think of making any kind of sweep, Staraptor is easily walled when it's locked into its attack, and Zapdos is busted open by Blissey, Tar, Latias... Your team is wasting a huge amount of potential on a Baton Pass setup that's not got a good chance of success.

You're going to want a better setup, better sweepers, and better backup. You're relying on your receiver to actually set up for any kind of sweep by ITSELF. That's not just risky, that's the definition of reckless. If you're bent on using these Pokemon, pack up on BP and just use some standard sets. I really don't know what else to say to that kind of mindset.

 

[coolkidmitch]

Sounds like a horrible, unreliable idea, using Tri Attack. The point of CB is to do as much damage as possible. Not to go for the lottery on status effects. :S

It seems that there are better ways to try for a sweep than using Empoleon. Baton Pass is usually most useful for getting a quick and decisive win, with maybe some backup if things go awry. You've got Skarmory here... I don't know why. Empoleon relies on SD to even think of making any kind of sweep, Staraptor is easily walled when it's locked into its attack, and Zapdos is busted open by Blissey, Tar, Latias... Your team is wasting a huge amount of potential on a Baton Pass setup that's not got a good chance of success.

You're going to want a better setup, better sweepers, and better backup. You're relying on your receiver to actually set up for any kind of sweep by ITSELF. That's not just risky, that's the definition of reckless. If you're bent on using these Pokemon, pack up on BP and just use some standard sets. I really don't know what else to say to that kind of mindset.

Completely Agree. I was just making a new suggestion, I really think Dodrio is a good choice, if she is wanting to stick with the same concept as Staraptor. The huge hole to fire worries me a LOT, I run a sunny day team that could eat this team down the bones.

 

[Farasha]

I know that tri attack is special and that his special sucks, but his attack is higher than staraptor and the speed is the same, AND she can run the same move set, just with another addition. Close combat is good, but only for one time use, after that the attack she once had with the staraptor is gone.

The only reason Close Combat is there is for Blissey, Snorlax, etc. It hits them for super effective damage, making it easier to get two of the most annoying walls out of the game. Besides, Choiced pokemon switch in and out so often that the Defense drop from CC ends up not being very material.

I'll take a look at Ninjask as a passer...

Mitch, I don't know what you're talking about with me having a hole to fire types. Empoleon eats fire types for breakfast XD

 

[coolkidmitch]

You have Skarmory, Zapdos, and Scaraptor. If your empoleon is knocked out, your power to drown fire is gone. Three flying types (and one with a steel!) makes it a pretty intense hole to them.

I have seen this team in action and it is good. It just makes me nervous is all :)

 

[Skip Shot]

Uhh, Fire does not hit Flying-types for super effective? 0.0

Besides, the majority of Fire-Types bar Scarf variants in OU are outsped by Staraptor and OHKOed by either CC, Brave Bird, or Return.

If you're really that scared, suggest using a Wish Vaporeon (Specs Vappy with Wish if you like the power factor) over Wish Umbreon.

 

[coolkidmitch]

ugh I feel dumb, I always think fire is super effective against flying -_- i guess in my mind, birds would explode XD

IZ DUM!

 

[Eos Aduro]

I just want to note that if Ninjask is used, which I support, you will have 4 flying types, never a good thing for any team. My suggestions are instead of Staraptor, put in either Machamp or Lucario, both can benefit from getting speed, and can do a similar thing, but better. Umbreon should really become Vaporeon for WishPassing, or Swampert for general tankyness.

Empoleon I would recommend a special varient, due to its superior special strength and better movepool. It can still benefit from speed passing with the proper sets, I can provide some if you choose to use any of my suggestions.

 

[Farasha]

You know, for some reason I've never used Lucario, even though I've wanted to. I'll take a look.

As of right now, I've made some changes to the team... haven't switched Staraptor for Luke yet, but I most likely will.

 

[Skip Shot]

I don't recommend giving Luke a Choice Band if you plan on passing boosts off to it. Luke will be forced to switch, which pretty much ends your sweep. I advise using a Life Orb/Muscle Band to boost power and still have versatility.

Lucario @ Life Orb/Muscle Band
Adamant/Jolly Nature (preferably Adamant)
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 6 HP

Close Combat
Extremespeed
Stone Edge/Ice Punch
Crunch

Ice Punch hits Gliscor, but Stone Edge grants better coverage. I leave it up to you. I prefer Stone Edge, since a 252 HP/ 40 Def (most common defensive spread iirc) Gliscor is going to be 2HKOed by a +2 Stone Edge, and if you can pass off one SD and one Speed Boost, Gliscor is done for.

As for Empoleon, a mixed set really isn't favorable. The SubPetaya set works a lot better, and balances the special/physical offenses of your team.

Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
Modest Nature
12 HP/ 12 Def/ 252 Spa/ 232 Spe

Agility
Surf
Substitute
Ice Beam/Grass Knot

Grass Knot is mainly for Swampert, Ice Beam hits the dragons hard. I leave it to you to choose.

 

[The Hero Without a Name]

Why would you ever, EVER use Muscle Band? Life Orb>>>Muscle Band; Lucario isn't going to last very long anyway, and he needs that extra power boost (10% doesn't cut it).

 

[Skip Shot]

Why would you ever, EVER use Muscle Band? Life Orb>>>Muscle Band; Lucario isn't going to last very long anyway, and he needs that extra power boost (10% doesn't cut it).

Muscle Band is only there in case the op doesn't like the LO recoil factor, and wants to boost his moves some other way. Since Luke really doesn't rely on hitting stuff for SE besides the dragons, I didn't put in Expert Belt as an option.

 

[The Hero Without a Name]

Muscle Band is only there in case the op doesn't like the LO recoil factor, and wants to boost his moves some other way. Since Luke really doesn't rely on hitting stuff for SE besides the dragons, I didn't put in Expert Belt as an option.

Yes, because that 10% boost is seriously enough to help Lucario get that extra power needed to OHKO Skarm, Donphan, and many other crucial physical walls after a Swords Dance.

 

[Skip Shot]

Its better than having no item at all. I prefer Life Orb, I'm just tossing Muscle Band up as an option for him if he doesn't like LO recoil. I don't see any other items that boost his Attack, don't cause recoil, ,doesn't lock him into one move, and aren't only boosted by Super-Effective moves besides Pokemon-exclusive Boosters (e.g. Thick Club) or Type-Exclusive (e.g. Black Belt). The only exception is (lol) a Metronome.

 

[Archer]

To be honest, you could take advantage of the damage you'll take switching in to run a Leichi/Salac Berry, but it's only a novelty. My issue with the team is that I really don't get what you're trying to do with Empoleon and Zapdos. Empoleon is running some pointless mixed set, with a negative nature in the only stat it can really use. If you go Physical, you want SD, otherwise, just go with the standard AgiliSubPetaya set. Zapdos is generally okay on it's own, but it's doing the same thing as Empoleon, hitting with underpowered attacks and relying on a Agility boost to effectively do so. Zapdos has both Agility and Baton Pass, so it's counter-productive.

I would replace Skarmory with Metagross to be able to take advantage of Boosts and run either Zapdos or Empoleon with Agility. If you remove Zapdos, be sure to run an effective Scizor check. Gyarados comes to mind as Empoleon can rack up the damage on bulky waters first, and it can sweep in it's own right, or take advantage of a nice +2Atk/+2Spd start from Ninjask, as it makes an awesome early sweeper and many things rely on switching in on the first DD to counter it.