Pokemon's ratings go up. Somehow.

randomspot555 said:
Before I proceed, I don't see how 7am slots are bad. Networks give death slots (on network television, that's usually prime time 7pm-10pm on Friday) in an effort to get declining ratings so they can cancel a show.

But 7am for a show aimed at hyperactive little kids hopped up on ADD meds and sugary cereal? I had NO trouble getting up that early. My parents hated me for it. You put on a kids show too late in the day, then you risk airing it when many are doing extracurricular activites or during family time.

I could be wrong, but 7-8am slots doesn't seem too bad, or at least not a death slot, for a show aimed at kids.

jasonresno said:
And as far as 7AM being a deathslot...not for their target audience. I remember back when I was younger waking up at the crack of dawn to catch Saturday cartoons and the same on the school days.

It's a death slot these days. All cartoons from Disney, Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon, Disney XD (It's in far fewer homes though), and the CW4Kids air in those time slots are the lowest rated programming on their blocks. Especially true in Pokémon's case. Before the move to 7AM EST (The last three updates before), the next two updates after it moved, and the last two ratings reports:

Spoiler:


Nickelodeon, Disney XD, and Disney just for good measure and if you're interested:

Spoiler:


As well as 2 members of local "power" force 4:

Spoiler:


How Nielsen ratings are determined.. Run through the tabs.

Or:

Spoiler:


In short, Saturday morning cartoons aren't what they used to be these days.

Johto averaged around 5's, the top number, throughout it's run. What does that mean?

Really? Why do you say that? Advertisers seem happy relying on their numbers. And with the upgrade to installed boxes rather than using hand-written notebooks, it's easier to track them now more than ever.

I believe that it's a flawed system since it takes a certain amount of people and tries to generalize it for an entire group. And yeah advertisers like the system, I know. I'd go into depth more but this post is getting too long for my enjoyment.

Anyway, if anyone is interested for the ratings for Pokémon in Fall '05 and Fall '06, you can check out these threads '05 and '06. You really can't go much earlier than that ratings-wise unless you really look.

Now:
Semidos said:
Speak for yourself! Actually for me and other my friends Johto was the best, because of fun, humor, good storyline and less commercial stuff like stupid Pokeathlon, Rangers or unnecessary Johto Festival in DP saga. Just because you hate Johto, doesn't mean that everyone thinks the same.

Good storyline? It's a drawn out version of Kanto with less humor. It's Hoenn and Sinnoh but only with Ash doing a token quest while the other two didn't. Or:

NoRealName said:
Must have missed those parts.
Just because you and your friends love Johto, doesn't mean that everyone thinks the same..

That. From a writing standpoint, like most of the show, it was terrible. Really, there's a reason a lot of people stopped wtching during and after Johto, y'know? Most of them aren't boycotting it either by the way.

The Mega Champion said:
^^^YES.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CN=dead to me either way.

So... yeah...

=/

Well, [adult swim] is starting an hour earlier in 2011 so yeah.

Anyway, if I made any mistakes on this, fuck it. It's too long for me to read through.
 
Last edited:
I just said why I like Johto. I didn't say that everyone must.

My point was that Vernikova (Jorah Rocks!) didn't say that everyone must hate Johto..



Not to go too much off topic:

As I live in Sweden, I have to watch the episodes on sites like YouTube.. (I could watch them in Swedish, I tried one episode, with Paul in it, and he sounded like a 50 year old, couldn't stand the horrible va..)

Maybe that was off topic too, :/
 
Why are you guys getting so worked up and wasting so much time .... debating the ratings of a kids cartoon?
 
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Before I proceed, I don't see how 7am slots are bad. Networks give death slots (on network television, that's usually prime time 7pm-10pm on Friday) in an effort to get declining ratings so they can cancel a show.

But 7am for a show aimed at hyperactive little kids hopped up on ADD meds and sugary cereal? I had NO trouble getting up that early. My parents hated me for it. You put on a kids show too late in the day, then you risk airing it when many are doing extracurricular activites or during family time.

I could be wrong, but 7-8am slots doesn't seem too bad, or at least not a death slot, for a show aimed at kids.

I usually slept a little later than that, so I would have missed a bit of Pokemon when I was that age if that was indeed the timeslot back then. I usually only watch it if it was a school day, since I have to be up early by then anyways. On weekends, it's a very different story.

First off, where are these numbers coming from?

2.1 and 2.2 came from THIS thread. As for 8.8 and 5.5, those were from Pokeani.

Remember, Pokemon outside of Japan was still in it's Fad status where it was everywhere. In movie theaters, lunch boxes, t-shirts, etc...

Yeah, but in Japan, which was never a fad to begin with (If it was, I doubt that it'd air movies in theaters anymore, since that's what happened here in America when the fad died down), apparently, it still succumbed to ratings. Trust me, knowing how the new fanbase replaces the old, that means that the new kids would also replace the old in numbers as well, and Japan certainly isn't going through a recession. I'm pretty sure if AG did truly "save the show" that the vast minority claim, the ratings would receive a significant boost exceeding Johto overall in the Japanese ratings, at the very least.

Also, again, it doesn't matter how many total watch it, but core demos.

the total IS the demographics, though. Kids are watching this, their watching it is recorded onto the ratings system we've got now, which only proves it.

Also, THE SHOW IS 10+ YEARS OLD. It's incredibly unrealistic to expect a show to maintain it's same success year after year after year. Network standards change. Look at other long running shows like ER. ER was never in danger of getting canned, but the # of people dropped. 33million tuned into season 1 finale, whereas about 16 million people tuned into it's final episode 15 years later. (link)

Really? I recalled how West Wing panicked when it's ratings were on the verge of collapse in Season 5, and so they tried to put Josh and Donna together and have them sleep together twice in one episode in a bid to regain viewership, and evidentally that never worked.

FIGURE OF SPEECH

Look it up.

Figure of speech? No, that's an Insult. A figure of Speech is more like "I can't wait!" "Check out my latest toy" or "I'm so hungry I could eat a Horse." What you said is definitely not a figure of speech by any definition.

Less commerical stuff?

lol

You do know the entire point of the anime is to promote the franchise. You can't get much more blatant than Pokemon. Where every Pokedex looks pretty similar to the current generation of the Game Boy or DS. The games themselves usually start in the player's bedroom which has a NES/SNES/Wii/whatever.

Even still, that doesn't mean that they should try and make it a carbon copy of the games. At least with Johto, they tried to come up with very original plotlines. I'll admit now that the Gym battles are just horrible (though they were not as horrible as in Hoenn, where Ash had basically trounced the GLs far too easily especially for the time period.). In Kanto, we had quite a few things that, while still ultimately an advert for the games, was at least done in such a manner that it actually felt like its own show. Johto and even Hoenn had also had similar things done there. Now, Sinnoh is almost a carbon copy of the games in virtually every respect. So much that you're going to think "Why am I wasting 30 minutes of a day of my life watching this when I can easily spend a few bucks and achieve the same result with the games." I mean, they keep the Gym Leader's pokemon exactly the same as the games (Even Roark), among other things, when they could diversify the Gym roster.

See, the main problem is balance. I know it's most likely going to be an advertisement anyways (pretty much every adaptation is ultimately just another advertisement of the original source.), but they could have just done it in a way that, while still an advertisement, at least makes it seem like it's own show as well (like adding in anime-only plots.).

Those who love Johto are far and few. Even among the people who think Pokemon (everything, not just anime) sucks after Gen II hate Johto. You want a saga where you can easily skip 90% of the episodes and not miss anything, including evolutions, go ahead. Heracross stayed around for what, 12 episodes?

To me, I am very meticulous with details, so missing any episode of Johto, or any episode for that matter (that includes reading summaries and scripts) is like missing a very crucial plot point. And actually, going purely by Japanese ratings, it's far more accurate to say that people who have loved Hoenn and Sinnoh are few and far between, given the fact that apparently Pokeani's rating system has Johto's overall ratings being an 8.8, and AG overall is a 5.5, and DP at best managed to get a 6.5 if not even lower than that, despite the fact that this is the most basic of audiences. I mentioned this to my aunt and uncle and they agreed (They also work in the advertisement industry, my aunt directly, and my uncle as a professor teaching the course relating to it at UNC Chapel Hill.).
 

Please explain to me why Johto, the greatest region of all time, had a total of one evolution on Ash's team?

In the big six on six battle between Gary and Ash, he only used two Pokemon from Johto, the greatest region of all time. One of them even performed really poorly, Bayleef, the only one given any sort of interesting personality. Explain.

The three starters from the greatest Pokemon region of all time never learned any of their signature attacks that are typical of starter Pokemon. Explain.

Or could it be that Johto really wasn't the bestest thing to ever happen to television, that the pacing was very, very poor, that the Pokemon caught in the region were pretty much ignored, and only got any use after Kanto Pokemon were plot-deviced out?

Let's pretend for a second that the anime was going to take a season to go back to Johto in honor of HG/SS. It's looking like this is not the case, but let's pretend it was.

While in Johto, half of Ash's team consists of 1-2 powerful Pokemon from Sinnoh + Pikachu, leaving only 3-4 slots for Johto Pokemon. Ash catches Johto Pokemon, but goes out of his way to use them as little as possible and even recalls Sinnoh Pokemon to use in gym battles.

Doesn't this sound like a sucky way to return to Johto?

Well, it's pretty much what happened the first time around.
 
Interesting (albeit ridiculous) thread. It actually makes sense now - I happened to stop watching episodes regularly right before Ash and co. made it to Goldenrod City, which is Johto I believe? Too bad that I couldn't manage to revive my interest since then if further seasons had more to offer.
 
Oh why oh why did you have to make a thread for this?!?!?!? This is going to be a never ending debate :\!!!

The 7am slots are fine if you ask me! I remember when you used to put power rangers dino thunder on tv at 7:30am i would always wake up at 6:00 ready!

Now all this about johto... looking back at the episodes... they were very boring... and no one say i was in nipers back then because i have nearly every pokemon box set! =P Way too much fillers, only one pokemon evolved!

Anyways i dont think any of you have noticed but after watching the last few episodes that aired i think they are seeming to be like the old pokemon episodes. Did you see that togepi episode? Or that new episode where ash and khory are trying to catch gible, ash and dawn have a fight and it sorta reminded me of an old misty vs ash episode XD...




I think this should close before it gets too out of hand :\
 
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In all seriousness, this is the only way discussion is actually generated on this forum. Enjoy your stay and don't feed what you don't want following you home.

Actually...

This would be MY definition of Cartoon Network/Adult Swim.

But... then again... I suppose that's just my opinion, huh?

=/

That's why I can't talk about anime on this forum. I get flamed every time I state my opinion about an anime.

=/
 
My point was that Vernikova (Jorah Rocks!) didn't say that everyone must hate Johto..
She didn't say "I think that it was the worst". She said "it was the worst". As though it was a fact. Here is a difference PS. Why is Vernikova named Jorah Rocks! ?

So what? Johto's time in the anime promoted Johto features. Sinnoh's time in the anime promotes Sinnoh features.
I agree, but! They promoted Johto features in Sinnoh saga, in Sinnoh region. And this I can't accept.

But when there's so many of them, it means Pokemon don't learn moves or aren't captured, and characters lag in development. Hence why Johto's massive amount of filler is bad.
Characters development, or learning moves aren't necessary to make good show. More important is fun and interesting storyline. I just watch pokemon to have fun, but it isn't funny anymore.

That's nice? I mean, when I watch Pokemon, I want Pokemon to evolve and learn new attacks. That rarely happened in Johto.
That's your opinion. I can accept this. Have a nice watching.
 
Please explain to me why Johto, the greatest region of all time, had a total of one evolution on Ash's team?

In the big six on six battle between Gary and Ash, he only used two Pokemon from Johto, the greatest region of all time. One of them even performed really poorly, Bayleef, the only one given any sort of interesting personality. Explain.

The three starters from the greatest Pokemon region of all time never learned any of their signature attacks that are typical of starter Pokemon. Explain.

Or could it be that Johto really wasn't the bestest thing to ever happen to television, that the pacing was very, very poor, that the Pokemon caught in the region were pretty much ignored, and only got any use after Kanto Pokemon were plot-deviced out?

Let's pretend for a second that the anime was going to take a season to go back to Johto in honor of HG/SS. It's looking like this is not the case, but let's pretend it was.

While in Johto, half of Ash's team consists of 1-2 powerful Pokemon from Sinnoh + Pikachu, leaving only 3-4 slots for Johto Pokemon. Ash catches Johto Pokemon, but goes out of his way to use them as little as possible and even recalls Sinnoh Pokemon to use in gym battles.

Doesn't this sound like a sucky way to return to Johto?

Well, it's pretty much what happened the first time around.

I never said or even meant that it was the greatest thing that ever existed. I just said it was better than Sinnoh or Hoenn. There's a difference. It still pales in comparison to Kanto, so really, it ISN'T the greatest season out there. However, I never saw it as the worst either. Why must you think that just because I or Semidos thought it was better than Sinnoh or Hoenn, that must automatically mean that it was the bestest version out there?! If anything, YOU'RE being the one whose biased. You claim that Sinnoh's the best out there, and anyone who disagrees must have issues and must think that Johto is the best there is. I never gave that much of a care about Johto, anyways. However, it's ratings still implied that it was much greater of a region than AG or DP, regardless of whether I truly enjoyed it or not. And anyways, I wouldn't say that it is the worst region, anyways. You are, though, which is far from the truth (since, factually, it had much higher ratings than AG or DP.)

To sum it up, in no way did I imply, state or anything of that nature that it was the greatest region ever. If I did, I would have also said that it's greater than Kanto or the OI.
 
Semidos said:
She didn't say "I think that it was the worst". She said "it was the worst". As though it was a fact. Here is a difference PS. Why is Vernikova named Jorah Rocks! ?

Because it was, is, and always will be the worst. Anyone can objctively look at it and say that it is terrible.

Anyway, it I got the stupid name becuase I thought it would be fun. It turned out to be stupid.

I agree, but! They promoted Johto features in Sinnoh saga, in Sinnoh region. And this I can't accept.

They promoted Johto stuff in Sinnoh because of overrated remakes G&S. If any Kanto remakes were coming out during Johto they would've promoted those too. They might as well since the Kanto Pokémon had most of the spotlight anyway.

Characters development, or learning moves aren't necessary to make good show. More important is fun and interesting storyline. I just watch pokemon to have fun, but it isn't funny anymore.

Character development isn't important? Cut yourself vertically on the arm. Do it now.

The Mega Champion said:
Actually...

This would be MY definition of Cartoon Network/Adult Swim.

But... then again... I suppose that's just my opinion, huh?

=/

That's why I can't talk about anime on this forum. I get flamed every time I state my opinion about an anime.

=/

What?

Mew~ said:
The 7am slots are fine if you ask me! I remember when you used to put power rangers dino thunder on tv at 7:30am i would always wake up at 6:00 ready!

Not many kids do that anymore. That's why the ratings are lower.
 
I agree, but! They promoted Johto features in Sinnoh saga, in Sinnoh region. And this I can't accept.

Why can't you accept that? Do you expect the anime to ignore HG/SS' release? Do you not understand that the anime serves to promote the games?

The week of Platinum's release in Japan, Zapdos appeared in the anime episode. And Zapdos can be captured in Platinum.

The entire reason the Battle Frontier arc was in Kanto was so they could simultaneously promote the Kanto re-makes of FR/LG and the additions Emerald.

Characters development, or learning moves aren't necessary to make good show. More important is fun and interesting storyline. I just watch pokemon to have fun, but it isn't funny anymore.

But a good storyline doesn't have to have dry characters either. Being fun and entertaining isn't an excuse for characters to never change.

I watch Pokemon to have fun too.

You claim that Sinnoh's the best out there, and anyone who disagrees must have issues and must think that Johto is the best there is.

No, it's because none of the Kanto and Johto purists have put forth anything worth reading as to why they're better. Some have come pretty close, but no one has made a decent argument.

(since, factually, it had much higher ratings than AG or DP.)

Popularity and quality are not inherently tied together. To make the claim that better quality (subjective) results in more populairty (factual) is, at best, going to back fire on you at some point. If they were, McDonald's would be the best restaurant, Wal-Mart the best retailer, Mario the best video game franchise, etc...

Or a better example: Say a poll (pretend, since obviously it'd be impossible) was taken of every Pokemon fan in the world, and May or Dawn was voted overwhelmingly as the favorite girl of all the trio's. By your logic, that would make her the best girl, yknow, over Misty, right?
 
Anyway, if I made any mistakes on this, fuck it. It's too long for me to read through.

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Anyway, a half-hour ad getting higher ratings, how fitting...
 
Why can't you accept that? Do you expect the anime to ignore HG/SS' release? Do you not understand that the anime serves to promote the games?

The week of Platinum's release in Japan, Zapdos appeared in the anime episode. And Zapdos can be captured in Platinum.

The entire reason the Battle Frontier arc was in Kanto was so they could simultaneously promote the Kanto re-makes of FR/LG and the additions Emerald.

We already had May's Bulbasaur and the Ritchie episode about Moltres to have a good advertizement. And having Ash actually reference Kanto during the Battle Frontier or visit the Sevii Islands would have been far more of an advert than what we currently got. The only things that involved FRLG were Kanto (which the first season was barely even referenced anyways. I know that Gen I isn't exactly the same as Gen III Kanto, but he could reference it for continuity's sake, so May and Max would also know as well. MGS4 was allowed to reference MGS3, so why not this.), and May's Squirtle. What's the point in setting it in Kanto when they aren't even going to do a good enough job in advertising it?

But a good storyline doesn't have to have dry characters either. Being fun and entertaining isn't an excuse for characters to never change.

I watch Pokemon to have fun too.

If you're talking about Misty, she did actually change, although it also wasn't for the worst, either. Misty did keep her temper, but she also cooled down as well. We also had some more development of her character. Even Brock changed as well, seeing how he went from reasoned to a complete Quagmire clone, although in his case, it definitely was for the worst.

No, it's because none of the Kanto and Johto purists have put forth anything worth reading as to why they're better. Some have come pretty close, but no one has made a decent argument.

I'm not really a Kanto purist nor a Johto purist, as I'm fully aware of the flaws (Heck, to label me a nostalgic Johto fan is completely inaccurate, as I had only recently watched it on that marathon prior to the airing of DP.), I just feel that Sinnoh's just badly done, that's all.

Popularity and quality are not inherently tied together. To make the claim that better quality (subjective) results in more populairty (factual) is, at best, going to back fire on you at some point. If they were, McDonald's would be the best restaurant, Wal-Mart the best retailer, Mario the best video game franchise, etc...

If they truly aren't everything, then why is it that most TV shows often end up panicking if they end up losing ratings (like West Wing, or House, or any of that) and often end up adding sex scenes in an almost desperate gambit to increase ratings (and almost always end up backfiring at some point, to the point of even less ratings or at worst cancellation)?

Or a better example: Say a poll (pretend, since obviously it'd be impossible) was taken of every Pokemon fan in the world, and May or Dawn was voted overwhelmingly as the favorite girl of all the trio's. By your logic, that would make her the best girl, yknow, over Misty, right?

As much as I personally hate it, if that is indeed the case, so be it. That doesn't mean I won't fight to change it, though.
 
If they truly aren't everything,

They don't mean anything, at all, in quality.

They're two different levels. It's apples and oranges. They're independent of each other.

Otherwise, popularity=quality means Miley Cyrus is a better musician than Ringo Starr. His new album hasn't sold too well, and hers well...she's on the radio quite often with huge sales and a television show. Therefore, by your "popularity=best", she is the better musician than Ringo Starr.

then why is it that most TV shows often end up panicking if they end up losing ratings

Because they want to stay on the air.

Seriously? You needed that answered for you?

(like West Wing, or House, or any of that) and often end up adding sex scenes in an almost desperate gambit to increase ratings (and almost always end up backfiring at some point, to the point of even less ratings or at worst cancellation)?

I don't even know what this means. House has never had ratings trouble.

As much as I personally hate it, if that is indeed the case, so be it. That doesn't mean I won't fight to change it, though.

Again, if popularity means everything, then there's no point in trying to fight it. You'd be fighting for, according to you, a lesser quality character.
 
Actually, they show pokemon twice on weekdays. In the morning 7 or 7:30 when kids are getting ready for school and at 2:30pm or 3pm when They're getting home. Ratings are most likely going up because of them showing it twice and because of all the Johto themed things popping up for the remakes that are comming out next month. Also the hype of Volkner and Flint's appearances that I missed because of work.
 
They promoted Johto stuff in Sinnoh because of overrated remakes G&S. If any Kanto remakes were coming out during Johto they would've promoted those too. They might as well since the Kanto Pokémon had most of the spotlight anyway.
Ehh. I know. This is clear. But, they should end Sinnoh ealier, start Johto filler saga and there promoting their stupid stuff. And mostly because promoting and commercial stuff became more important, than entertaiment of the show, this anime has started to be worse.

Character development isn't important? Cut yourself vertically on the arm. Do it now.
Really, isn't. If you think differently, you don't know what is the point of the good show.

Why can't you accept that? Do you expect the anime to ignore HG/SS' release?
No. But I wanted to.

Do you not understand that the anime serves to promote the games?
Yes. I already know that. But thanks. Everything would be good, if they don't want to make promoting more important than entertainment.

The entire reason the Battle Frontier arc was in Kanto was so they could simultaneously promote the Kanto re-makes of FR/LG and the additions Emerald.
So. What's the problem with making another Johto filler saga for promoting Johto stuff, if they really want to. I don't see any problem.

But a good storyline doesn't have to have dry characters either. Being fun and entertaining isn't an excuse for characters to never change.
Yes. It's. For me and most of other people it's enough.

No, it's because none of the Kanto and Johto purists have put forth anything worth reading as to why they're better. Some have come pretty close, but no one has made a decent argument.
Maybe you can't understand.

Eh. What a stupid conversation. It doesn't lead to anything.
 
KR said:
Protip: Don't ***** about something you have done earlier...


Anyway, a half-hour ad getting higher ratings, how fitting...

Who's bitching? That's what the posters in this forum are like. I'm no exception. Never said I was either since anyone who regulary posts here know that I fit some of the things I listed.

So protip: Know what you're talking about before you say something.

Semidos said:
Ehh. I know. This is clear. But, they should end Sinnoh ealier, start Johto filler saga and there promoting their stupid stuff. And mostly because promoting and commercial stuff became more important, than entertaiment of the show, this anime has started to be worse.

Promoting the games have always been the number one priority for the show. This became quite evident at the beginning of Johto.

Really, isn't. If you think differently, you don't know what is the point of the good show.

I'm not going to try anymore.
 
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