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Prepare for Team Fortress 2! (It's free!)

Munch Dog

Growlithe!
789
Posts
14
Years
  • I don't understand how anyone can love waiting 10seconds+ while the opposing team wins the round.

    It's called game balance pal. It sucks when you're on an attacking team and you kill nearly the entire enemy team just to have them all run right back out of the spawn making it impossible to actually cap the point or do whatever. If you're complaining about respawn timers then you probably just die too often. Try to get better.

    TF2 is a very careful crafted game and crap like fastspawn or instaspawn completely screw it up.
     

    Akeraz

    Winning is Magic
    929
    Posts
    15
    Years
  • ****ing hell no.

    Instant respawn is not how TF2 is supposed to be played. The game is not balanced at all for instant respawn, as a result the game suffers. You're basically punishing the attacking team because they have to wade through the enemy team several times because they respawn fast enough to defend the final point far too effectively. It also makes CTF games boring stalemates cultivating sentry farms for the same reason.

    The solution to respawn times is - don't die. Play smart, play as a cohesive and effective team and you'll die less often. In the traditional ruleset, the team with a greater concentration of skilled players will more often win the round. (With allowances for random crits changing the course of a forward push)

    Promoting instant respawn teaches people the incorrect ways to play the game, just like 32-man servers or other non-standard gameplay modifiers.

    I agree.
    If you want instant respawn you should go play a game like Call of Duty.
     

    Zet

    7,690
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • ****ing hell no.

    Instant respawn is not how TF2 is supposed to be played. The game is not balanced at all for instant respawn, as a result the game suffers. You're basically punishing the attacking team because they have to wade through the enemy team several times because they respawn fast enough to defend the final point far too effectively. It also makes CTF games boring stalemates cultivating sentry farms for the same reason.

    The solution to respawn times is - don't die. Play smart, play as a cohesive and effective team and you'll die less often. In the traditional ruleset, the team with a greater concentration of skilled players will more often win the round. (With allowances for random crits changing the course of a forward push)

    Promoting instant respawn teaches people the incorrect ways to play the game, just like 32-man servers or other non-standard gameplay modifiers.
    oh man I totally didn't know I haven't been playing TF2 how it's supposed to be played, lord o'mighty let's just go back to TF2 vanilla cuz that how it suppose to be played!

    I play on a constant respawn 100% crit server, best fun you'll ever have. Sometimes blu will win on payload/cp maps, sometimes red will. It's all about having fun(that's how you play TF2).
     

    Akeraz

    Winning is Magic
    929
    Posts
    15
    Years
  • oh man I totally didn't know I haven't been playing TF2 how it's supposed to be played, lord o'mighty let's just go back to TF2 vanilla cuz that how it suppose to be played!

    I play on a constant respawn 100% crit server, best fun you'll ever have. Sometimes blu will win on payload/cp maps, sometimes red will. It's all about having fun(that's how you play TF2).

    I state this again, why not just play call of duty?
    I'm sure it'd better cater to your needs to have overpowered weapons that cut through people like butter, and an instant respawn because you're too bad to live more than five seconds.
    Not every first person shooter has to be a one shot one kill fest, which is based completely on twitch, and not on skill at all.
    I've played on such servers, and it's not nearly as fun as you make out.
    Team fortress 2 is best played on a 20 second respawn timer, no random crits server. It's the game at it's rawest level, and completely removes any level of luck from the game.

    I'm starting to feel that the whole free to play thing is not helping TF2, since it's bringing more people who are minded like you to the table. I don't want a game I actually enjoy to die because of a bunch of arrogant CoD fanboys wanting every FPS to be a CoD clone.
     

    Zet

    7,690
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • I state this again, why not just play call of duty?
    I'm sure it'd better cater to your needs to have overpowered weapons that cut through people like butter, and an instant respawn because you're too bad to live more than five seconds.
    Not every first person shooter has to be a one shot one kill fest, which is based completely on twitch, and not on skill at all.
    I've played on such servers, and it's not nearly as fun as you make out.
    Team fortress 2 is best played on a 20 second respawn timer, no random crits server. It's the game at it's rawest level, and completely removes any level of luck from the game.

    I'm starting to feel that the whole free to play thing is not helping TF2, since it's bringing more people who are minded like you to the table. I don't want a game I actually enjoy to die because of a bunch of arrogant CoD fanboys wanting every FPS to be a CoD clone.

    I'm not a F2P'er, I love it when TF2 became F2P, just join a valve server and play as a spy and get 40+ backstabs in one life.

    Why should I waste perfectly good money on a COD game just to listen to kids shouting "hax!!!!!!!". If you want your "raw" game, go join a pub server or a comp server.
     

    Ninja Caterpie

    AAAAAAAAAAAAA
    5,979
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • Team fortress 2 is best played on a 20 second respawn timer, no random crits server. It's the game at it's rawest level, and completely removes any level of luck from the game.
    First you say something about how instaspawn and full crits aren't how TF2 was meant to be played, then you go on about 20 second respawn and nocrit, which is also how it's not meant to be played. 20 second respawn is freakin' insane in CP or Attack/Defend; you kill the opponents and you have free reign to dominate control points. TF2 isn't about living once per round, which is effectively what such a ridiculous spawn time puts it to. A good team can kill the opponents and just win with such a long respawn.

    I personally find it more fun on either team to have a fast spawn (not instant), but that's subjective. I also find P2Pers seem to be rather conceited, as is with any game where there's a difference between payers and players.
     
    3,956
    Posts
    17
    Years
  • Lag is terribad on the server, makes it impossible to play at times. :(

    I know. It's horrible for more precise classes.

    After reading through, I can see why spawn delay is important, but as I said before, it should depend on the map. On some maps, if you manage to die, then the spawn time is too high. Stuff like Well, where the offense has to march for 5 mins to get from spawn to the last 2 points and the defense can't afford 1 second down, because a Scout only has to touch that last point to cap it.

    On the other hand, with the point over the bridge on Dustbowl, Instaspawn makes it almost impossible to get to cap, because they get back to the point before you even have time to cross the bridge.

    In most cases, I think that a 10-15 second spawn is fine, assuming they can't customise it to fit the map.
     

    Akeraz

    Winning is Magic
    929
    Posts
    15
    Years
  • I'm not a F2P'er, I love it when TF2 became F2P, just join a valve server and play as a spy and get 40+ backstabs in one life.

    Why should I waste perfectly good money on a COD game just to listen to kids shouting "hax!!!!!!!". If you want your "raw" game, go join a pub server or a comp server.

    > That totally doesn't happen in TF2 either
    Also I've noticed a distinct increase in the number of instarespawn servers recently, and sometimes I'm forced to play them. I'm not sitting through 100 ping, because TF2's net code is it's biggest downfall.

    First you say something about how instaspawn and full crits aren't how TF2 was meant to be played, then you go on about 20 second respawn and nocrit, which is also how it's not meant to be played. 20 second respawn is freakin' insane in CP or Attack/Defend; you kill the opponents and you have free reign to dominate control points. TF2 isn't about living once per round, which is effectively what such a ridiculous spawn time puts it to. A good team can kill the opponents and just win with such a long respawn.

    I personally find it more fun on either team to have a fast spawn (not instant), but that's subjective. I also find P2Pers seem to be rather conceited, as is with any game where there's a difference between payers and players.

    I guess. Perhaps I'm stuck up my own ass because I've played alot of competitive. I just find there's more incentive to stay alive, and you have to think alot more about what your doing. It's the challenging rounds I find the most fun, and with the 20 respawn + No crits, I find them alot more often compared to the ololololo instarespawn 100% crits. I come from an era where respawn time was something you found in most games, so I guess it doesn't really bother me as much as a more modern gamer.
     

    Kozoi

    Mmmmm.
    368
    Posts
    15
    Years
  • oh man I totally didn't know I haven't been playing TF2 how it's supposed to be played, lord o'mighty let's just go back to TF2 vanilla cuz that how it suppose to be played!

    I play on a constant respawn 100% crit server, best fun you'll ever have. Sometimes blu will win on payload/cp maps, sometimes red will. It's all about having fun(that's how you play TF2).

    People like you are the reason why I do not frequent Pokécommunity anymore. What does Team Fortress Two vanilla have to do with anything that they stated? It seems to me that you're bringing up an entirely different subject matter, creating a straw man because you're incapable of justifying your position.

    Instant respawn is terribly imbalanced, depending upon the map and team that you're on. I don't want to be capturing the last point on Dustbowl, for example just to have hordes of enemies rushing out after I kill them. Also, full critical hits are terribly imbalanced and are in favour of the spam classes, such as Demoman and Soldier and make everything else inferior - I guarantee that on full critical hit servers, Medics are completely irrelevant towards a push. I'd rather play a skill based game than a luck based game, every hit being a critical discourages strategic thinking, team synergy, consistently good aim and rewards mindlessly spamming projectiles. It's a cluster **** of idiocy. No thanks.

    I know. It's horrible for more precise classes.

    After reading through, I can see why spawn delay is important, but as I said before, it should depend on the map. On some maps, if you manage to die, then the spawn time is too high. Stuff like Well, where the offense has to march for 5 mins to get from spawn to the last 2 points and the defense can't afford 1 second down, because a Scout only has to touch that last point to cap it.

    On the other hand, with the point over the bridge on Dustbowl, Instaspawn makes it almost impossible to get to cap, because they get back to the point before you even have time to cross the bridge.

    In most cases, I think that a 10-15 second spawn is fine, assuming they can't customise it to fit the map.

    This. Just this.
     

    Zet

    7,690
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • People like you are the reason why I do not frequent Pokécommunity anymore. What does Team Fortress Two vanilla have to do with anything that they stated? It seems to me that you're bringing up an entirely different subject matter, creating a straw man because you're incapable of justifying your position.

    Instant respawn is terribly imbalanced, depending upon the map and team that you're on. I don't want to be capturing the last point on Dustbowl, for example just to have hordes of enemies rushing out after I kill them. Also, full critical hits are terribly imbalanced and are in favour of the spam classes, such as Demoman and Soldier and make everything else inferior - I guarantee that on full critical hit servers, Medics are completely irrelevant towards a push. I'd rather play a skill based game than a luck based game, every hit being a critical discourages strategic thinking, team synergy, consistently good aim and rewards mindlessly spamming projectiles. It's a cluster **** of idiocy. No thanks.
    If you read over what was said, you would know my point. And If you know how to play on a crit server, you won't die easily; you can even get a good 20 kills before dying.

    I'm not saying to bring constant crits or instant respawn to the server, I just want a small respawn time so I can actually play and not be bored for a good 20+ seconds while red/blu wins and the team I'm on loses.



    Oh, and just so you know medics play a vital role in instant respawn constant crit servers.
     

    Kozoi

    Mmmmm.
    368
    Posts
    15
    Years
  • If you read over what was said, you would know my point. And If you know how to play on a crit server, you won't die easily; you can even get a good 20 kills before dying.

    I'm not saying to bring constant crits or instant respawn to the server, I just want a small respawn time so I can actually play and not be bored for a good 20+ seconds while red/blu wins and the team I'm on loses.



    Oh, and just so you know medics play a vital role in instant respawn constant crit servers.

    I'm talking about balance, you know the entire original premise in Team Fortress Two, as stated within the Developer Commentary? All critical hits do NOT achieve a state of balance. Just because somebody can live for a long time, it doesn't mean that all critical hits are balanced.

    Let's discuss balance. Soldier is capable of one shotting eight out of nine classes with a critical hit, the same applies to Demoman. Sniper can one shot all nine classes with just a body shot. (This is probably one of the reasons why you were told to go play Call of Duty.) All critical hit servers ruin the team aspect of the game for me; one player is capable of single handedly pushing forward, destroying the entire opposing team and achieving an objective. (I.e. intel grabbing.) A Demoman can spawn camp for a good few minutes when there is only one exit from the spawn and he will never be in a scenario where he won't be able to lay down Stickies because he'll only require a third of the Sticky Bombs that he would usually require to pull off this tactic. A Sniper can kill everything with a body shot and thus, this makes the Sniper Rifle irrelevant and the Sydney Sleeper the better choice because of the additional 25% charge. In fact, all critical hits make a lot of weapons irrelevant and Underpowered, like the Backburner, Jarate, Bushwaka, Kritzkreig and so forth. You cannot seriously think that this kind of play is fun or balanced when you weigh up all of the cons.

    Also, I never said that I wanted a twenty second respawn timer. I think that the timer should be different based around what map and team you're playing on. (Obviously, or I wouldn't have quoted that post.) My quirk is with Instant Respawn; it's awful when you're trying to capture the last point or push the cart to its final destination when enemies keep swarming out of their spawn. Ten seconds is usually enough and it encourages the teams to move out together and not by themselves, thus increasing their chances of survivability.

    Finally, Medic isn't vital in all Critical Hit servers. I don't know what you're smoking, but Medic won't be able to rack up many assists when he gets one shotted by everything that isn't a utility weapon and when he doesn't even have a small hit box like Scout. The only thing that a Medic can do is over heal Soldiers so they aren't one shotted by Crockets and it's not like he'll even get a point for doing that. Medic is not encouraged on all critical hit servers because your chance of getting Uber is near impossible and you'll be lucky to get a quarter of the assists that you can get in standard play. I almost always top the leader boards as Medic in standard play, but when I play on an all critical hit server, I can't even get to the middle of the score board. I wonder why?
     

    Munch Dog

    Growlithe!
    789
    Posts
    14
    Years
  • The game actually does base respawn timers on map and even team and situation. The game awards more aggressive teams with shorter respawn timers as they cap more points and so on. It's how TF2 is designed, it gives advantages to teams who push and play to win and it makes sure that one team will almost always win decisively over the other.
     
    1,234
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    • Seen Mar 10, 2013
    oh man I totally didn't know I haven't been playing TF2 how it's supposed to be played, lord o'mighty let's just go back to TF2 vanilla cuz that how it suppose to be played!

    I play on a constant respawn 100% crit server, best fun you'll ever have. Sometimes blu will win on payload/cp maps, sometimes red will. It's all about having fun(that's how you play TF2).

    Sure, sometimes I play on mario kart because it's funny, but at the end of day, people find it fun to win at video games (There are no winners or losers in mario_kart - only the spawn campee and the spawn camper). Sooner or later though, the meat grinder gets tiring when it's just a mindless shooter instead of a team working together to achieve an objective. The stock rulesets and respawn time is designed to make the chances of winning attack/defence and other game modes evenly balanced towards both teams if they're good at the game.

    Is it really fun to foster an environment where X Team has a much greater chance of winning, or the team objective game degrades into a TDM?
     
    Last edited:

    Zet

    7,690
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • I'm talking about balance, you know the entire original premise in Team Fortress Two, as stated within the Developer Commentary? All critical hits do NOT achieve a state of balance. Just because somebody can live for a long time, it doesn't mean that all critical hits are balanced.

    Let's discuss balance. Soldier is capable of one shotting eight out of nine classes with a critical hit, the same applies to Demoman. Sniper can one shot all nine classes with just a body shot. (This is probably one of the reasons why you were told to go play Call of Duty.) All critical hit servers ruin the team aspect of the game for me; one player is capable of single handedly pushing forward, destroying the entire opposing team and achieving an objective. (I.e. intel grabbing.) A Demoman can spawn camp for a good few minutes when there is only one exit from the spawn and he will never be in a scenario where he won't be able to lay down Stickies because he'll only require a third of the Sticky Bombs that he would usually require to pull off this tactic. A Sniper can kill everything with a body shot and thus, this makes the Sniper Rifle irrelevant and the Sydney Sleeper the better choice because of the additional 25% charge. In fact, all critical hits make a lot of weapons irrelevant and Underpowered, like the Backburner, Jarate, Bushwaka, Kritzkreig and so forth. You cannot seriously think that this kind of play is fun or balanced when you weigh up all of the cons.

    Also, I never said that I wanted a twenty second respawn timer. I think that the timer should be different based around what map and team you're playing on. (Obviously, or I wouldn't have quoted that post.) My quirk is with Instant Respawn; it's awful when you're trying to capture the last point or push the cart to its final destination when enemies keep swarming out of their spawn. Ten seconds is usually enough and it encourages the teams to move out together and not by themselves, thus increasing their chances of survivability.

    Finally, Medic isn't vital in all Critical Hit servers. I don't know what you're smoking, but Medic won't be able to rack up many assists when he gets one shotted by everything that isn't a utility weapon and when he doesn't even have a small hit box like Scout. The only thing that a Medic can do is over heal Soldiers so they aren't one shotted by Crockets and it's not like he'll even get a point for doing that. Medic is not encouraged on all critical hit servers because your chance of getting Uber is near impossible and you'll be lucky to get a quarter of the assists that you can get in standard play. I almost always top the leader boards as Medic in standard play, but when I play on an all critical hit server, I can't even get to the middle of the score board. I wonder why?
    It is fun to play on them(because having fun is what a vidya game is all about) and just ubercharge a heavy before you walk out the gates. You might also want to not be in the path of crockets etc

    But Jake, I would really appreciate having a low respawn time on the server.

    ...and a VIP system that gives immunity to team balance :3

    The game actually does base respawn timers on map and even team and situation. The game awards more aggressive teams with shorter respawn timers as they cap more points and so on. It's how TF2 is designed, it gives advantages to teams who push and play to win and it makes sure that one team will almost always win decisively over the other.
    I was being aggressive on defense, but I got a 15second wait time before I respawned :(
     
    Last edited:

    Munch Dog

    Growlithe!
    789
    Posts
    14
    Years
  • Well that's just how it is on attack/defend maps. Attackers get shorter respawn because the defenders have the advantage of well... they're defending so it's easier to stay in position and they can set up defenses like sentries and sticky traps, so they get a longer respawn to balance it out.
     

    Zet

    7,690
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • Well that's just how it is on attack/defend maps. Attackers get shorter respawn because the defenders have the advantage of well... they're defending so it's easier to stay in position and they can set up defenses like sentries and sticky traps, so they get a longer respawn to balance it out.

    There is no advantage in defending, near the end of the map, you can wipe out the defenders and easily win the match while they're waiting to respawn.
     

    Munch Dog

    Growlithe!
    789
    Posts
    14
    Years
  • That's pretty much the point, if the attacking team manages to wipe out the entirety of the enemy team, they kinda deserve to cap the point, because a good defending team would have at least one decently placed sentry set up, they also have the advantage of being able to quickly run back into their spawn to the health/ammo locker. Especially on a map like dustbowl where the spawn is so close to the last point. The final point can take a good while to cap if the defending team is doing a good job at defending the point. If the attacking team can kill them all and push through the defenses is it really fair that the defenders can just pop right back out and wipe them all out before being able to cap like nothing happened? I don't think so.
     
    3,956
    Posts
    17
    Years
  • Loving the new map: Barnblitz. So complex, yet so logical. Steamrollin' noobs. :D

    If we can't lessen the spawn time by 5 seconds or so, just leave it on, IMO.
     

    Ninja Caterpie

    AAAAAAAAAAAAA
    5,979
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • Personally, I find 5-10 second spawn time is fine. Less feels cheap and is hard to attack, more is just boring.

    Let's just play a map which spawn doesn't affect as much, yeah? Um, like PLR or CTF.
     
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