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6th Gen Primal Reversion Discussion & Speculation Thread

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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That theory about Ancient Power is interesting. Ancient Power's description says that the Pokémon using it "attacks with a prehistoric power". Do you think that prehistoric power could be the same power that Groudon and Kyogre absorbed from nature to Primal Reverse?

If it is, maybe in the present that power is indeed weaker (the official site already seems to imply this), and drawing from it is only enough to produce an attack. I remember proposing a sort of energy siphon as the Primal Reversion item, and it would fit well with this theory. The Pokémon would need to amplify or store enough of the now-weaker natural power to be able to Primal Reverse.

Although there is also the attack Nature Power, which is directly stated to use nature's power just like Groudon and Kyogre. What do you think about it? None of the weather trio learns it.

Also, about Mega Evolution, maybe the difference it has with Primal Reversion is the source of the power the Pokémon uses to transform. Mega Evolution may use hidden potential that has always been within the Pokémon, while Primal Reversion may utilize energy that comes from an outside source; from the environment. This would also fit with the item for Primal Reversion being an energy siphon that channels the energy from the world into the Pokémon.

That's what I started to think after I posted that and looked back at the quote.

If there are more Primals other than GKR they may end up being the ones who can learn Ancient Power by level up. Well the exceptions to that could be Togekiss seeing how Togekiss itself doesn't learn the move but Togepi and Togetic do, and Aerodactyl already has a Mega. Oh and the Tao trio too as it should be a fusion of the three dragons.

Even Corsola could get a Primal, as Corals existed in the distant past (interestingly Pacificlodge is said to have been built over Corsola, and that town seems to have a connection to the Regis (plus Sky Pillar is nearby) so it maybe old).

The other Pokemon on that list are the fossils which are ancient and can probably draw more of the power of the past. Also Claydol and Bronzong are quite ancient too. Then there's Carbink which was created after millions of years, so it may actually have been created by the natural energy coming in contact with a diamond on the ground.

Now as for the symbols. Perhaps they could have the version exclusive's have either Alpha or Omega. The ones in both such as Corsola can have Delta.
 
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But what I find odd is that they made and entire catergory just for primal pokemon instead of including them as megas. So in the end there will be three primals with a whole category dedicated to themselves, to the weather trio? If these transformations were to be more exvlusive why not call primal Kyogre Alpha Kyogre or Primal Groudon Omega Groudon? Why the generic Primal title if no other pokemon will have these sort of transformation? I might be wrong though but it makes me suspicious. There are other pokemon that seem to fit with the primal theme and within this category.

I understand, but they have given certain Pokémon or groups of Pokémon exclusive features before.

There are the Therian Formes for Unova's flying trio; that's an entire category just for those three. They could just have used the term Origin Forme for them, a term that was already established and that only Giratina had. It would have fit perfectly too, since the Therian Formes are apparently their "original shape", and yet they created the Therian Forme concept just for them. And if that has been done for them, a minor legendary trio, why not for the main, box-featured duo of a pair of remakes?

There are even features that have been given to a single member of a trio, like Giratina's Origin Forme that I just mentioned, Xerneas's Active Mode, and Kyurem's ability to fuse with one of the other two dragons. This is also why I'm not taking Primal Rayquaza for granted.

And, as you said, primal reversion has something to do with the pokemon being able to absorb natural energy thus triggering a transformation, the weather trio is capable of doing this as demonstrated but are they really the only ones capable of absorbing natural energy?

Right now, Primal Reversion has everything to do with the Pokémon being able to absorb natural energy. That is all the official site has told us about why Primal Reversion happened.

But besides all of that, if Primal Reversion is going to work just like Mega Evolution, and be given to many Pokémon, again just like Mega Evolution, why create the concept in the first place? Why not make them all Mega Evolutions? I think it is because Primal Reversion, as a game concept, was created to give the main legendaries of the remakes something a bit different, something that set them apart from all the other Pokémon with Mega Evolutions.

It would be just like why Therian Formes were made. They are a different term from Giratina's Origin Forme, but are essentially the same thing - it simply gives all of the legendary Pokémon involved something unique to each of them. I think the same will be true for Primal Reversion: a kind of Mega Evolution unique to the weather trio.

Even Corsola could get a Primal, as Corals existed in the distant past (interestingly Pacificlodge is said to have been built over Corsola, and that town seems to have a connection to the Regis (plus Sky Pillar is nearby) so it maybe old).

The other Pokemon on that list are the fossils which are ancient and can probably draw more of the power of the past. Also Claydol and Bronzong are quite ancient too. Then there's Carbink which was created after millions of years, so it may actually have been created by the natural energy coming in contact with a diamond on the ground.

This is another thing. Why didn't Diancie get a Primal Reversion? If any other Pokémon can claim to be super ancient, it is Diancie. It is legendary, it was once a Carbink, and Carbink, as you said, spent millions of years underground after being formed by nature.

Primal Reversion had already been shown when Mega Diancie was revealed too, so they didn't have that restriction of spoiling a new mechanic, unlike with Aerodactyl getting a Mega on XY.

So yet again, I don't think a Pokémon being ancient is the important part of Primal Reversion, but I agree with what you said about how Ancient Power could work for triggering it on the two that are confirmed to have it.
 

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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I understand, but they have given certain Pokémon or groups of Pokémon exclusive features before.

There are the Therian Formes for Unova's flying trio; that's an entire category just for those three. They could just have used the term Origin Forme for them, a term that was already established and that only Giratina had. It would have fit perfectly too, since the Therian Formes are apparently their "original shape", and yet they created the Therian Forme concept just for them. And if that has been done for them, a minor legendary trio, why not for the main, box-featured duo of a pair of remakes?

There are even features that have been given to a single member of a trio, like Giratina's Origin Forme that I just mentioned, Xerneas's Active Mode, and Kyurem's ability to fuse with one of the other two dragons. This is also why I'm not taking Primal Rayquaza for granted.



Right now, Primal Reversion has everything to do with the Pokémon being able to absorb natural energy. That is all the official site has told us about why Primal Reversion happened.

But besides all of that, if Primal Reversion is going to work just like Mega Evolution, and be given to many Pokémon, again just like Mega Evolution, why create the concept in the first place? Why not make them all Mega Evolutions? I think it is because Primal Reversion, as a game concept, was created to give the main legendaries of the remakes something a bit different, something that set them apart from all the other Pokémon with Mega Evolutions.

It would be just like why Therian Formes were made. They are a different term from Giratina's Origin Forme, but are essentially the same thing - it simply gives all of the legendary Pokémon involved something unique to each of them. I think the same will be true for Primal Reversion: a kind of Mega Evolution unique to the weather trio.



This is another thing. Why didn't Diancie get a Primal Reversion? If any other Pokémon can claim to be super ancient, it is Diancie. It is legendary, it was once a Carbink, and Carbink, as you said, spent millions of years underground after being formed by nature.

Primal Reversion had already been shown when Mega Diancie was revealed too, so they didn't have that restriction of spoiling a new mechanic, unlike with Aerodactyl getting a Mega on XY.

So yet again, I don't think a Pokémon being ancient is the important part of Primal Reversion, but I agree with what you said about how Ancient Power could work for triggering it on the two that are confirmed to have it.

I think it's because Therian was more specific, also unlike Giratina those formes being their originals is left ambiguous. They could've named name them Alpha Mega and Omega Mega or something like the formes have 'X forme'. I think the Primal was chosen to highlight the differences of this kind of transformation. As you brought up it seems to be energy from outside of the Pokemon instead of inside.

As for Diancie getting a Mega...it seems to be linked to Mega evolution as it resembles the Anistar clock. So a Mega would've fit it better. Also my latest statement was meant to be Pokemon connected to the past somehow, instead of them actually being old. Their age is only part of that connection.

Btw I think Primal may be a reference to "Primal instincts" especially since Groudon and Kyogre are described to have become greedy, and savage in their thirst for more of the power. So they're reverting back into a chaotic mentality.
 

PokeHunterBlack

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. Btw I think Primal may be a reference to "Primal instincts" especially since Groudon and Kyogre are described to have become greedy said:
That would make sense, but the regis would make sense too, because in the original you needed certian pokemon like the living fossil relicanth to open there tombs, so im thinking that when they were created they were gaining power and they were then locked up and regressed to weaker forms
 

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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^ That's right, that could've been why they were sealed. As it was never explained what they or Regigigas did that was so bad to warrant getting sealed.
 
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I think it's because Therian was more specific, also unlike Giratina those formes being their originals is left ambiguous.

Their forme change is effectively the same as switching from Origin Forme to Altered forme. The description for the Reveal Glass says that it "returns a Pokémon to its original shape", so Altered and Origin formes would have applied to them perfectly, and despite that, a new term used only for them was created.

They could've named name them Alpha Mega and Omega Mega or something like the formes have 'X forme'. I think the Primal was chosen to highlight the differences of this kind of transformation. As you brought up it seems to be energy from outside of the Pokemon instead of inside.

From what we have seen, Primal Reversion will be treated like Mega Evolution, so why not just call it that? Why did they go out of their way to establish it as a different kind of transformation if it will work just like an already existing game mechanic and would have fit under it? A good reason would be that they simply wanted Groudon and Kyogre to have something unique to them. It would be a rename of Mega Evolution for Groudon and Kyogre, just like Therian Forme is a rename of Origin Forme for Unova's flying trio.

Actually, it would be like how most alternate formes for legendary Pokémon could simply be called exactly that, but get unique names depending on the Pokémon anyway.
 

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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Their forme change is effectively the same as switching from Origin Forme to Altered forme. The description for the Reveal Glass says that it "returns a Pokémon to its original shape", so Altered and Origin formes would have applied to them perfectly, and despite that, a new term used only for them was created.



From what we have seen, Primal Reversion will be treated like Mega Evolution, so why not just call it that? Why did they go out of their way to establish it as a different kind of transformation if it will work just like an already existing game mechanic and would have fit under it? A good reason would be that they simply wanted Groudon and Kyogre to have something unique to them. It would be a rename of Mega Evolution for Groudon and Kyogre, just like Therian Forme is a rename of Origin Forme for Unova's flying trio.

Actually, it would be like how most alternate formes for legendary Pokémon could simply be called exactly that, but get unique names depending on the Pokémon anyway.

That description is quite strange as after you get them the mirror B2W2 they even bring up that it's unknown which one is the original. Actually we can get it only after having the Therian formes... so perhaps the Incarnated formes are the real ones...

Anyways after my comment on reverting to one's Primal instincts I'm wonder if Rayquaza may not get a Primal as Rayquaza is the peace keeper. But then again it's not very peaceful either...and is quite over protective of it's territory like the other two.
 
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That description is quite strange as after you get them the mirror B2W2 they even bring up that it's unknown which one is the original. Actually we can get it only after having the Therian formes... so perhaps the Incarnated formes are the real ones...

It doesn't matter which one is their real form. The mirror makes them switch between their two forms, and we know from its description that one of them is their "original shape" (Origin Forme). That means their other form is an Altered Forme.
 

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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From the latest trailer it looks like the legend Primal reverses when we meet them in what seems to be Origin Cave (which will match the originals). So the theory of the orbs causing them seems more likely as it was the orb we were given that caused them to attack us in the originals. Well that or a new item like the Bells in HgSs, whose legends only needed the wing to cause them to appear in the originals, but needed both in the remakes.
 
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Magikarp is a pretty cool idea of a Primal, but I really don't see it happening haha especially since Gyarados has a Mega.
 

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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My feelings of Primal Rayquaza being announced this month are getting stronger, especially since Get Tv is suppose to announce something on the 14th which is one day before Emerald's 10th anniversary.
 
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From the latest trailer it looks like the legend Primal reverses when we meet them in what seems to be Origin Cave (which will match the originals). So the theory of the orbs causing them seems more likely as it was the orb we were given that caused them to attack us in the originals. Well that or a new item like the Bells in HgSs, whose legends only needed the wing to cause them to appear in the originals, but needed both in the remakes.

This is interesting. Maybe the Orbs will indeed be containers of natural energy. And maybe, if another item is required, it will be held by the legendary Pokémon and act as a Mega Stone for Primal Reversion.
 
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This has probably already been mentioned, but I think there's an obvious Primal pokemon choice.

*Looks at Dialga*

Regardless, it's a pretty cool thing, from what I've seen.
 

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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This has probably already been mentioned, but I think there's an obvious Primal pokemon choice.

*Looks at Dialga*

Regardless, it's a pretty cool thing, from what I've seen.
Primal Dialga in Japanese (and in many other languages) is 'Dark Dialga' while Primal Kyogre and Groudon are called "Primeval/Primal" or something along those lines.

I think Origin cave being the first place we see their Primal reversions to be fitting as the cave is said to hold an energy equal to Mt. Pyre (another orb connection there). Plus it said to be where life begins (a link to Xerneas maybe? Which is connected to Mega Evolution, as is Yvetal (a link with Mt. Pyre maybe?)). Btw for anyone wondering Cave of Origin's Japanese name is cave of Awakening, so while it's Japanese name doesn't have as strong beginning of life connotations, they're still there, as Life can be described in terms of Sleeping and Awaking up (sleep being death, and awakening being birth, with birth by sleep implying reincarnation/revival).
 
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Perhaps Primal will be permanent?
In thisfootage, it showcased Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre, and revealed that the moveswe've seen them use in previous images are new moves rather than reanimated moves.
I dont knowhow else this would make sense unless they learn a 5th move ir a move gets replaced. I think Primal will be permanent forms
 

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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Perhaps Primal will be permanent?
In thisfootage, it showcased Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre, and revealed that the moveswe've seen them use in previous images are new moves rather than reanimated moves.
I dont knowhow else this would make sense unless they learn a 5th move ir a move gets replaced. I think Primal will be permanent forms

Earlier in this thread I theorized that perhaps Ancient Power will become their signature move after they go through Primal Reversion like how Glaciate turns into Black Kyurem, and White Kyurem's signature move, also how Kyurem's Scary Face turns into one of the Fusion moves while in one of it's formes. They could make it so that the move shifts using whatever code Kyurem's moves use to change.
 
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Perhaps Primal will be permanent?
In thisfootage, it showcased Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre, and revealed that the moveswe've seen them use in previous images are new moves rather than reanimated moves.
I dont knowhow else this would make sense unless they learn a 5th move ir a move gets replaced. I think Primal will be permanent forms

I think I've said it before in this thread, but the problem with Primal Reversion being "permanent" (or just "triggered outside of battle") is that it would leave no reason to use the regular Groudon and Kyogre.

Right now, we know Primal Reversion gives a boost to their Abilities, and that it increases Kyogre's Special Attack and Groudon's Attack, so unless there are any drawbacks we do not know about yet, I think it will be like Mega Evolution, triggered in battle, with a shared once-per-battle restriction.

About their new moves, and adding to what ORAS said: I've suggested before, also in this same thread, that one of their moves could get replaced by a new one for the duration of their Primal Reversion.

I'll just repost what I thought back then, since I still think it could work, and we now have confirmation that they are indeed getting new attacks:

This would be great. Kyogre could get something like Great Flood, Groudon something like Supervolcano, and Rayquaza something like Meteor Crash.

Although I think the moves may disappear after they revert to their normal forme. It could work by replacing one of their attacks with the new forme's signature attack during the transformation. Kyogre could get Water Spout replaced, Groudon Eruption, and Rayquaza could perhaps have Outrage replaced.

That was in response to Pepperton suggesting they could get new moves, and it was before they had even released the first quality screenshots that showed Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre's unique symbols and attacks.
 

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire

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Well Kyurem's formes overshadow regular Kyurem, so it wouldn't be out there for Primal Groudon to overshadow normal Groudon, and Primal Kyogre to overshadow normal Kyogre. However, irc they showed those two transforming in midbattle in what looks like a wi-fi/inferred battle. Plus it's linked to Mega evolution, which isn't permanent.
 
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Well Kyurem's formes overshadow regular Kyurem, so it wouldn't be out there for Primal Groudon to overshadow normal Groudon, and Primal Kyogre to overshadow normal Kyogre. However, irc they showed those two transforming in midbattle in what looks like a wi-fi/inferred battle. Plus it's linked to Mega evolution, which isn't permanent.

Ah, I had forgotten about Kyurem's alternate formes. You're right, there's precedent of it happening then.

I still consider it a problem however, especially if you take into account that these alternate formes would overshadow Groudon and Kyogre (both of whom are already very powerful) as opposed to overshadowing regular Kyurem (who actually needed a boost compared to other legendary mascots).
 
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