Putting together a solid team

[Handsome Samurott]

About 3 months ago I posted asking for help building my first competitive team. I got some nice feedback and advice, but I had to put the fun on the back burner to deal with responsibilities at the time. But I'd like to pick up where I left off and get some more help. I'm still a newbie, so bear with me and be respectful.

I'd like to use Togekiss and Dragonite. I really like the idea of using Togekiss for para-flinching, and I think that could be a great benefit to Dragonite, who tends to be slower than other hard-hitters. Here is the info I am considering for each:

Togekiss
Item: Leftovers or Sharp Beak
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP, 4 Def, 252 SpD (following Smogon here)
Moves:
- Thunder Wave
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Nasty Plot, Fire Blast, or Aura Sphere

Dragonite
Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
Moves:
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch
- Steel Wing, Earthquake, or Roost

I anticipate three criticisms about the moves I have chosen for Dragonite. (1) Dragon Claw. Although Outrage is much more powerful than Dragon Claw, I am concerned about being locked into the move for 2-3 turns and an opponent switching in with a Fairy type. (2) Steel Wing? Although Steel Wing is not as powerful as some other moves, it is much more accurate than Iron Tail (which must painfully be chain-bred onto Dragonite anyway) and it has good coverage against Fairy types. (3) Where is Extreme Speed? The short and honest answer is that it is not readily and easily obtainable for me because I would need to go back and complete HG/SS, BW, and B2W2 to transfer it to XY. That is a huge pain and a price I am not sure I am willing to pay.

After these two Pokemon, I am not sure what to use. I was considering Skarmory because of his physical bulk, his usefulness for laying entry hazards, and his strategic use of whirlwind to phaze opponents. But I am wary about having THREE Flying types on a single team (Togekiss, Dragonite, Skarmory). That is the same reason I am wary of having Volcarona on my team. Someone had mentioned using Greninja, and I thought that might be a good idea. So, here is the info I am considering for him:

Greninja
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Atk, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Moves:
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Extrasensory or U-Turn

Thoughts on Skarmory, Greninja, or other Pokemon I should consider pairing with Togekiss and Dragonite? Smogon mentioned the advantage of using a Rapid Spinner to eliminate Stealth Rock so that Dragonite can make full use of Multiscale, and of course the principal Rapid Spinner that comes to mind is Starmie, which has wonderful SpA and Spe and has a versatile moveset. But that would mean using Starmie in place of Greninja, as I simply see no advantage of having two frail Water types on a single team.

Your criticisms, suggestions, and observations are welcome! Thank you in advance for your patience and help. I look forward to a variety of perspectives and replies.

 

[srinator]

I don't mean to sound rude but para-flinch is a ♥♥♥♥ed up strategy, I say this because I have been on the receiving end of many times, never has it affected my much cause I had landorus with me.

Thundurus with prankster is a much better and powerful option since it has priority thunder wave and is a good nasty plot user.
I don't see the point of a steel move on drago, it still will die cause unaware fairies and bulky fairies exist. Dragon claw is preferred yes and also if you want to abuse multistage more you can give drago tie weakness policy. I use dd/eq/declaw/espeed with wp normally.

But you do need extreme speed on drago tie since it's speed is not too great even after +1dd.

And then I read I see you write this is I game and not ps simulator stuff, oh well.

Rapid spinner is normally not needed unless you heavily rely on entry hazards and Defog users are preferred. There are good defoggers in the game like zapdos,mandibuzz,skarmory and the Lati twins.
If you are into offensive I would say go for the Lati.
If you want to check things like talon flame and mega pins use zapdos, mandibuzz is a great physical wall and can used according to your needs.

You could also centralize your team around lum berry dnite and bring in wish support and heal bell, just in case. Wp helps a lot tho and if you set up hazards, it makes dnites job easier.

To be honest I can't just build a team for you since well it's your team, I can give you suggestions to the best of my knowledge if you want to use a certain kind of mon. Also I have no idea how anything works Ingame. But oh well gl~

 

[PlatinumDude]

This is the best Togekiss set to run, atm, though it shares similarities to yours:
-Thunder Wave
-Air Slash
-Heal Bell/Defog/Dazzling Gleam/Aura Sphere/Flamethrower
-Roost
Nature: Calm/Bold
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 SDef (Calm) or 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef (Bold)
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace

Steel Wing isn't worth using on Dragonite because while it covers its weaknesses, there are better utility options like Extreme Speed for the +2 priority and Earthquake for more coverage than Fire Punch:
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage/Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Extreme Speed
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale

or
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Extreme Speed
-Fire Punch/Dragon Claw
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale

or
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Extreme Speed
-Roost
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 216 HP/64 Atk/228 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale

Greninja needs Extrasensory to deal with Mega Venusaur and Keldeo. U-turn isn't that useful, since "scouting" can be done with Team Preview.

But you do need extreme speed on drago tie since it's speed is not too great even after +1dd.

Adamant Dragonite outspeeds Greninja at +1 Speed, though it still falls short of Choice Scarf users.

And sets for each Defogger:

Mandibuzz:
-Foul Play
-Taunt/Whirlwind
-Knock Off/Toxic/Defog
-Roost
Nature: Impish/Bold
EVs: 248 HP/136 Def/108 SDef/16 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat

Latias:
-Draco Meteor
-Psyshock/Thunderbolt
-Defog
-Healing Wish
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

Latios:
-Draco Meteor
-Psyshock
-Hidden Power (Fighting)/Thunderbolt/Earthquake
-Defog
Nature: Timid/Hasty
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

 

[zygardian harbinger]

^I have to agree there. Although Serene Grace boosts the bonus effects, there are other Pokemon that can do it better. Togekiss normally takes up the role of a Special Tank and a dangerous counter against Dragon-types out there.
Togekiss@Leftovers
4 HP/252 Sp. Atk./252 Sp. Def.
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Modest
-Roost
-Nasty Plot
-Dazzling Gleam
-Air Slash/Focus Blast/Fire Blast
I do agree that Thundurus is a better Nasty Plot user, but this set is just in case you want to keep Togekiss.

I agree that a Steel-type move is pointless on Dragonite. Fairy-types can still wreck it. Perhaps you need a good counter against Fairies... I use a Mega Scizor for my Fairy-counter. It only has one weakness, which is 4x to Fire, but it's well worth it. Genesect also shares this trait, but it's been banished to Ubers, unfortunately...
Scizor@Scizorite
252 Atk./4 Sp. Def./252 Speed
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
-Bullet Punch
-Swords Dance
-X-Scissor
-Brick Break
Bullet Punch is an absolute must on Scizor. It's a priority move, gains STAB, and benefits from Technician. Brick Break gets through Dual Screens.

If you don't want to use Mega Scizor, then you can try this:
Scizor@Life Orb
252 Atk./4 Sp. Def./252 Speed
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
-Bullet Punch
-U-Turn
-Brick Break
-Pursuit
Same functions as the Mega set, with the exception of access to U-Turn and hitting switching enemies with Pursuit.

 

[Handsome Samurott]

Thank you, guys. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Metricus]

I'm in strong agreement with WarPaint in that you really shouldn't bother with Para-flinch. The main thing I have to contribute here is that you're determined to keep Dragonite, and Togekiss on you're team, you'll need a rapid spinner/entry hazard that doesn't fall to the same weaknesses. Donphan resists electric, but is weak to ice just like the two of them, so my advise would be to go with this Forretress set.

Forretress@rocky helmet/leftovers
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Relaxed
-Rapid Spin
-Toxic Spikes
-Spikes
-Gyro Ball/Volt Switch

I use a similar set and it work pretty well, although I prefer to work my types to keep Donphan on my team.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Togekiss also gets Defog which could be used in the last slot.

Forretress.....just kind of blows this gen (even last gen it was bad). Aegislash is basically on every team which means you arent gonna be spinning much with Forry. I guess you could use EQ on it, but still.

 

[MoxieInfinite]

I disagree about forre being bad last gen. It had some nice use on sandstall if you cant afford starmie (cuz you should NOT use donphan, ever) and while it might be worthless vs offense, it does relatively well vs opposing stall (which you see a bit of in smogon tour >_>)

imo, every non-scarf togekiss set is ass this gen. Howeer, should you wanna run that set, id recommend something like sd pursuit scizor (sd is replaceable) so u can piss on aegislash. Dont do steel wing on dnite.