RATE MY TEAM PLEASE

How many neutral Garchomps are out there? Seriously ._.

Predicting switch-ins is very easy once you've scouted for awhile, nothing can survive Tri Atatck more than once except those that resist it and hardcore special walls, and we have Nasty Plot for that. Very few of what I mentioned can take a Tri attack will outspeed Porygon-Z.

Heracross doesn't have sweeping speed either, yet people run Adamant CB Heracross, which is a very good set BTW. LO Tri Attack has power like those CB attacks, only you can choose your attacks and have Nasty Plot. IMO, it's a special version of CBcross that is improved.

Timid doesn't help Porygon-Z, it might outspeed a lot of things it can't with Modest, but most of those can't switch in and many are rarely seen anyways. For me, the Z is all abouit power. When I used Timidm it was outperformed by Modest. Pory Z is one of those sweepers I actually use (or when I actually went on shoddy), Modest really has outperformed Timid, at least for me.

Sorry, but I've always thought speed is overrated and I think it's true here more than ever. Porygon-Z is slow either way, you might as well make other things switching into it take 70% from Tri Attack, and you can wall whatever that threat is if it's so fast, and then come back in and all of a sudden that isn't a safe switch anymore.

What I'm saying is that Modest > Timid basically because Timid has no benefits I really care about, and I don't think anybody else should really care about outspeeding neutral Garchomp, who is extremely rare.

I always enjoy a good, civilized argument though :) I don't really think we can prove each other wrong, so maybe we should just shut up with our differences of opinion, lol :P

Also, correcting a rate that Smarties already established as being bad isn't really helping either. In other words, I think after being told once, Daboys121 understands the rate wasn't good. I don't see how reinforcing that fact really helps.
 
Anti-Pop said:
How many neutral Garchomps are out there? Seriously ._.

Predicting switch-ins is very easy once you've scouted for awhile, nothing can survive Tri Atatck more than once except those that resist it and hardcore special walls, and we have Nasty Plot for that. Very few of what I mentioned can take a Tri attack will outspeed Porygon-Z.

Heracross doesn't have sweeping speed either, yet people run Adamant CB Heracross, which is a very good set BTW. LO Tri Attack has power like those CB attacks, only you can choose your attacks and have Nasty Plot. IMO, it's a special version of CBcross that is improved.

Timid doesn't help Porygon-Z, it might outspeed a lot of things it can't with Modest, but most of those can't switch in and many are rarely seen anyways. For me, the Z is all abouit power. When I used Timidm it was outperformed by Modest. Pory Z is one of those sweepers I actually use (or when I actually went on shoddy), Modest really has outperformed Timid, at least for me.

Sorry, but I've always thought speed is overrated and I think it's true here more than ever. Porygon-Z is slow either way, you might as well make other things switching into it take 70% from Tri Attack, and you can wall whatever that threat is if it's so fast, and then come back in and all of a sudden that isn't a safe switch anymore.

What I'm saying is that Modest > Timid basically because Timid has no benefits I really care about, and I don't think anybody else should really care about outspeeding neutral Garchomp, who is extremely rare.

I always enjoy a good, civilized argument though :) I don't really think we can prove each other wrong, so maybe we should just shut up with our differences of opinion, lol :P

Also, correcting a rate that Smarties already established as being bad isn't really helping either. In other words, I think after being told once, Daboys121 understands the rate wasn't good. I don't see how reinforcing that fact really helps.
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Yes,I get it.I also tryed to help the original person who asked for a rating.
 
Anti-Pop said:
How many neutral Garchomps are out there? Seriously ._.

There are quite a few on shoddy ive seen actually. Mainly be used on the SUB Bright Powder Swords Dance sets.

Predicting switch-ins is very easy once you've scouted for awhile, nothing can survive Tri Atatck more than once except those that resist it and hardcore special walls, and we have Nasty Plot for that. Very few of what I mentioned can take a Tri attack will outspeed Porygon-Z.

So, once youve killed something, your gonna switch out ? due to getting outsped. Porygon-z CANNOT switch in for crap, it cant afford to keep coming back in, once your in OUTSPEED and do as much damage as possible.


Heracross doesn't have sweeping speed either, yet people run Adamant CB Heracross, which is a very good set BTW. LO Tri Attack has power like those CB attacks, only you can choose your attacks and have Nasty Plot. IMO, it's a special version of CBcross that is improved.


hera different, its more bulky and can actually take a hit when it comes in. Porygon -z can not due to lack of resistances.

Timid doesn't help Porygon-Z, it might outspeed a lot of things it can't with Modest, but most of those can't switch in and many are rarely seen anyways. For me, the Z is all abouit power. When I used Timid it was outperformed by Modest. Pory Z is one of those sweepers I actually use (or when I actually went on shoddy), Modest really has outperformed Timid, at least for me.


Sorry, but how does timid not help ? You have nasty plot and a Life Orb on your dam set, it needs the speed not the power. Things are gonna wall the dude either way, its what comes in after. It they send in Salamence, Elecitivire and god knows what else is in that base 90 and 100 speed area your gonna have to switch out and lose your nasty plots.


Sorry, but I've always thought speed is overrated and I think it's true here more than ever. Porygon-Z is slow either way, you might as well make other things switching into it take 70% from Tri Attack, and you can wall whatever that threat is if it's so fast, and then come back in and all of a sudden that isn't a safe switch anymore.

How is it overated, in a speed orientated metagame =/


What I'm saying is that Modest > Timid basically because Timid has no benefits I really care about, and I don't think anybody else should really care about outspeeding neutral Garchomp, who is extremely rare.

Apart from outspeeding all base 100 neutral nature speed pokemon.

I always enjoy a good, civilized argument though :) I don't really think we can prove each other wrong, so maybe we should just shut up with our differences of opinion, lol :P
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Tier 2 (90 to <110 base speed)


* 306 - +nature/252 Moltres, Lucario, Pikachu, PorygonZ, Roserade, Zangoose (90)

Tier 3 (70 to <90 base speed)

* 303 - 252 Garchomp (102)
* 299 - 252 Zapdos, Celebi, Slaking, Flygon, Salamence, Jirachi, Regigigas, Staraptor Manaphy, Shaymin(100)
* 295 - +nature/252 Heracross, Suicune, Kingdra (85)
* 289 - 252 Houndoom, Jynx, Drapion, Yanmega, Leafeon, Gliscor, Uxie, Electivire (95)
* 287 - +nature/252 Gyarados (81)
* 284 - +nature/252 Dragonite, Blaziken, Gardevoir, Medicham, Mesprit,Togekiss, Mamoswine (80)
* 279 - 252 Moltres, Lucario, Pikachu, PorygonZ, Roserade, Zangoose (90)

Ive bolded all the important dudes that it will be outrunning with timid.
 
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Don't take the critisiscm to the heart, but if you're going to keep Crobat teach it some attacks, as Umbreon can be a wall and an annoyer
 
kiddo999 said:
Don't take the critisiscm to the heart, but if you're going to keep Crobat teach it some attacks, as Umbreon can be a wall and an annoyer
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Umbreon has really lost it's touch as a wall this gen, the main reasoning being the addition of Focus Blast, Aura Sphere, Close Combat, etcetera.
 
Yeah, Umbreon best job is Trap passing.


Umbreon@leftovers
252 HP / 252 def / 6 sp.DEF
Sassy Nature
- mean look
- Baton pass
- Yawn
- Wish


Evs and nature here give you pretty much equal defenses :

Yawn stuff and mean look something thats cant do ass to you on the switch, Yawn again and pass to a counter for a few turns of set up whilst the opposing poke falls asleep.
 
Dark_Azelf said:
Yeah, Umbreon best job is Trap passing.


Umbreon@leftovers
252 HP / 252 SP.DEF / 6 DEF
Relaxed Nature
- mean look
- Baton pass
- Yawn
- Wish


Evs and nature here give you pretty much equal defenses :

Yawn stuff and mean look something thats cant do ass to you on the switch, Yawn again and pass to a counter for a few turns of set up whilst the opposing poke falls asleep.
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Yup. That's all it can really do is trap a pokemon that it can survive and switch with BP.

Even then, it hardly does a "good job" at it, since usually, 1-2 pokes is the max on what you're going to be killing. But then again, It's just a wall, and Isn't meant for sweeping or anything.
 
Porygon-Z just switches in on outmatched walls and can set up or attack. It isn't the kind of sweeper that is fast and can stay in and NP sweep, in all honesty hit and run is much more effective with it from my experiences. Really, it's frail, slow even with Timid...I don't see why trying to outspeed things is going to help you.

Also, the metagame is wrong. Speed is terribly overrated as an asset, especially for sweepers like Porygon-Z. If you want speed, Scarf it. That's the way I see it. Also, Garchomp is officially uber here, is it not?

I reiterate, outspeeding base 100 sweepers and all that is tremendously overvalued. I might not be out best battler skill-wise in 4th gen, but I can tell you with 100% conviction that you do NOT need speed to win, even with attacking pokemon.

I think our real disagreement (yes, I'm going to pull a Dr. Phil here) lies in the fact that we use the same set in two totally different ways. The way I use it doesn't require it needs speed, while you intend to try to sweep more things more quickly, which probably would require timid. Personally, I don't think it's best used that way...but you do.

So in that regard I'm going to say we're both correct. Writing off Modest is a very bad idea though, I assure you. Modest NP Porygon-Z is a beast. I suppose it depends on the thread starter's style of play as to which nature he or she chooses.
 
I completely agree with Anti's side of the argument.

In a way, Specsmence doesn't have Timid, it has Modest, so I guess that's a fair comparison.
 
Well, that's a bit different, I just think Modest is just as viable if Modest, if not better.

I will say though, you almost have to play them differently (though that largely depends on the opponent). I'm not saying timid is terrible, but the extra speed is really overvalued IMO. Put in all the pokemon you want, most are rare occasions to come across, like a specs Gyarados.

Either way, I think we've both presented or arguments about as much as possible. I say we call it a draw...
 
Itachi 2008 said:
I completely agree with Anti's side of the argument.

In a way, Specsmence doesn't have Timid, it has Modest, so I guess that's a fair comparison.
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urrmm, specsmence doesnt need Timid, this is 100% different, Timid outspeeds nothing of particular threat to Mence. Besides the dude needs all the power.

Porygon-z however actually needs the speed, why would you choose not to outspeed all base 100 pokemon ?


Garchomp may be Uber here temporarily, however its not on Shoddy OR Smogon yet.


As i see it, you already have Nasty Plot and a Life Orb, why you need more power that modest grants baffles me, when you could have bags more speed for small sp.att drop, but even thats a moot again due to Nasty Plot and the Life Orb.


You even disagreed with me for using Modest Specs star, you said "it needs the speed", why is it any different here ?


Meh whatever, if your using Modest at least use Agility..
 
Starmie has 115 base speed, so it can actually outspeed things. The extra power doesn't really help it much either. So, there's a very big difference.

Really, I prefer hitting my switch-ins harder rather than faster (as speed doesn't matter when something switches in). Remember, I play stall ball, and wearing down opposing sweepers is just what stall ball does. In that regard, speed is of very little importance.

EDIT: Nobody ever agrees with me :)

But really, my experiences have been the total opposite, Modest far outclassed Timid.

Again, I am going to say it is based mostly on the style in which you use Porygon-Z. I use everything kind of in a funky fashion, but for me it has never needed speed.
 
perrinaybara said:
Roserade@ Choice Specs(eved in spAtk252/spe252/hp4)
Timid
Energy Ball
Sludge Bomb
Shadow Ball
growth
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Growth with Specs o_0 lol

Anyways, i lurv roserade =)


Roserade@Choice SPecs
4 HP / 252 Sp.A / 252 Speed
Timid Nature
Trait : natural Cure
- Leaf Storm
- Shadow Ball / Energy Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden power Fire


To say this is beastly is an understatement, Leaf Storm REALLY hurts, it outdamages specs mences Draco meteor =o

Your choice on that second slot, Shadow Ball grants more neutral coverage and for stuff like Gengar who resists both Grass and Poison. Energy Ball lets you have an attack for the late game without cutting your sp.att.

Sludge Bomb gets STAB

Hidden power Fire For steels. <<if you cant get this just put whichever move from the second slot you didnt choose here.
 
Anti-Pop said:
Starmie has 115 base speed, so it can actually outspeed things. The extra power doesn't really help it much either. So, there's a very big difference.

Really, I prefer hitting my switch-ins harder rather than faster (as speed doesn't matter when something switches in). Remember, I play stall ball, and wearing down opposing sweepers is just what stall ball does. In that regard, speed is of very little importance.

EDIT: Nobody ever agrees with me :)

But really, my experiences have been the total opposite, Modest far outclassed Timid.

Again, I am going to say it is based mostly on the style in which you use Porygon-Z. I use everything kind of in a funky fashion, but for me it has never needed speed.
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Agreed on the bolded statement.

For me, like Anti, I prefer power > speed.

However, it depends on if it needs speed or not. Starmie, like Anti, said, has 115 base speed, so it doesn't really need it.

Speaking of switching, you'll want that to be occuring when you're using NP, or GG PoryZ.
 
Believe it or not I actually prefer Modest on Roserade too, but I don't have nearly the argument to back that up :P Hey, I like this...it shows how diverse we all are in our opinions and styles, lol. I'm just...not a speed guy, lol.

But yeah, Azelf's set is as usual fine. I prefer Shadow Ball to Energy Ball, it is a real pain to take for Cresselia and friends. Leaf Storm does that too, but it is less accurate and debilitates Roserade. Specs users might be for hit and run, but they will have to finish kills every now and again, and shadow Ball is much better for that than Leaf Storm is.
 
Anti-Pop said:
Believe it or not I actually prefer Modest on Roserade too, but I don't have nearly the argument to back that up :P Hey, I like this...it shows how diverse we all are in our opinions and styles, lol. I'm just...not a speed guy, lol.

But yeah, Azelf's set is as usual fine. I prefer Shadow Ball to Energy Ball, it is a real pain to take for Cresselia and friends. Leaf Storm does that too, but it is less accurate and debilitates Roserade. Specs users might be for hit and run, but they will have to finish kills every now and again, and shadow Ball is much better for that than Leaf Storm is.
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Yep. I don't like being Walled by Cressy either. <.< Leaf Storm just ruins the notion of Specs anyways, since you're not trying to decrease the attack.

But yup, Azelf's set is fine.
 
You aren't walled by Cress with Leaf Storm, Shadow Ball is just more reliable...and same goes for all bulky floating psychic elf things. either option works though.
 
Anti-Pop said:
You aren't walled by Cress with Leaf Storm, Shadow Ball is just more reliable...and same goes for all bulky floating psychic elf things. either option works though.
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Well, it gradually gets more feeble, however. As well as all your other special moves. But considering this is Specs, the "your other moves" point would be moot.
 
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