Red/Blue remakes on 3DS

[BettyNewbie]

I couldn't care less about RSE. It didn't deserve a remake IMO.

That's because you're not a fan of Hoenn. :P I'm no fan of those games, either, but you have to think of the people who are. Before ORAS, they had no way of playing their favorite Gen on modern hardware.

The only reason Pokémon games keep getting remade is because of connectivity, which makes the series unique, but even then you can't have all the regions represented in the same generation since we have six regions already. It's simply impossible.

It's not about representing all Gens in the same Generation, but on the same handheld. A Gen is considered "accessible" if people can still pick up the newest handheld and play it. One reason HGSS were made was because, at the time, Gen 2 was the only Gen that was unavailable on the DS (which killed GB/C compatibility). Gen 1 could be played via its remakes, and Gens 3 and 4 were obviously compatible, so that left Gen 2 out in the cold. On top of that, most of the batteries in GSC carts had died off, so the games literally weren't even playable anymore, anyways.

It was a similar story with the 3DS. GBA compatibility was gone, so only Gens 4 and 5 could still be played, which included Gen 2 via its remakes. That left Gen 3 out in the cold, thus necessitating remakes. Problem is that Gen 3 also included Gen 1, so that's one story that's still inaccessible on modern hardware.

I've always felt like GF allowed other media to characterize the opponents better. Characters in Pokémon very rarely leave their games. The anime writers have also forgot a ton of characters from the early days, but their "crime" was much bigger because Misty for example was an integral part of the show for a couple hundred episodes, and to simply write her off like they did left a bad taste in many people. Still, I'm probably saying this more because of my favoritism towards Misty than because they were wrong in doing it. :P

But, it's still hard not to notice that some characters are treated better than others. Just compare Steven or Cynthia to your average E4 member, and even certain E4 members to other E4 members (Caitlin and Malva are more popular than Glacia and Aaron, for example, and it's hard not to see why).

Yeah, what happened to Misty in the anime was very unfortunate; it's amazing that she still has so many fans. I always hated the way the anime treated its female leads like they were interchangeable.

I think that, except for Lorelei and Agatha, all of the 1st gen characters are in HGSS...

And, guess who are the two least characterized Gen 1 characters? :rolleyes2: Even other media don't exactly treat them that well, either.

Up to the League, HGSS was almost the exact same as GSC. The only differences were that it required you to make a trip to the Safari Zone, and also made you catch the box legendary before heading to Kanto, in an imitation of the plots in newer Pokémon games. HGSS never added Pokémon that weren't supposed to be there, for example, like you suggest for new Kanto remakes. Indeed, this meant the Pokédex was a little lacking in distribution, but that's what the original games were like, and they wanted to give the same experience of the originals. They didn't even fix the low level curve from GSC! Well, they sorta tried, but it was a half-assed effort.

From the start, HGSS were pretty radically different for female players. And, the unselected PC still appeared as a secondary rival. And, last time I checked, neither following Pokémon or the Pokéathlon were in GSC. The Kimono Girls were also very different and more important to the story, and how could the Safari Zone and the two new Routes not be a drastic change from the originals?

FRLG, on the other hand, played out identically to RB in almost every single way, because even a few nods to Yellow would've been too much change for them. :rolleyes2:

Therefore, they came up with the Sevii Islands, which I think they realized was a mistake since I believe they weren't referenced in any of the subsequent games. They were a nod to the Orange Islands from the anime, but they hardly had the same "charm".

Damn right GF should be ashamed of the Sevii Islands, because they were crap. They were only slapped together to give GF an excuse to not put "scary" new things in Kanto and because Gen 1 needed a postgame, and GF were too cheap to give us Johto or borrow Orange from the anime. :rolleyes2:

If I may use an analogy, I believe the remakes should be like when you add chocolate syrup on top of the vanilla ice cream, instead of replacing the vanilla ice cream with strawberry ice cream. You build upon the original game, not change it.

Going by your analogy, HGSS were a delicious sundae with chocolate syrup, sprinkles, whipped cream, and a cherry on top, while FRLG were a plain scoop of vanilla with a few sprinkles added on. What do you think looks more appetizing?

I must say though that he does have a point in that it'll cause an endless cycle of remakes that I honestly can see no end to, and it hasn't even started yet (at least fully). It's sad to say but I do think sometimes that Gen I-III are heading to oblivion from now on. They will only be remembered by those who played the originals or their remakes, and by hack remakes of said generations. Gen II and III may be fresh so they may seem less distant but I certainly do feel that people are starting to forget about Johto, and once Gen VII (or even earlier) starts Hoenn will begin the process of fading as Johto did with BW's announcement. I would say this, that it'll be nice if GF gave Gens I-III one more remake in the distant future (maybe not so distant for Gen I), that of their third versions (more so Yellow and Emerald as they had things fans of those two missed from FRLG and ORAS). After that they can vanish into oblivion and hacks.

This is true. :( It sucks for fans who don't really have any interest in the newest games, because they have less of a community to turn to, and fandom is not fandom without a community. Hoenn fans have it good now, but what about 5-10 years in the future?

It's sad to say but the only reference to the Sevii islands in recent years has been outside of the games, in Pokemon Special, with a character from the Sevii islands popping up in the ORAS saga.

Now, that's just amazing... {D:} Maybe, GF really does view Sevii as an Old Shame.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

That's because you're not a fan of Hoenn. :P I'm no fan of those games, either, but you have to think of the people who are. Before ORAS, they had no way of playing their favorite Gen on modern hardware.



It's not about representing all Gens in the same Generation, but on the same handheld. A Gen is considered "accessible" if people can still pick up the newest handheld and play it. One reason HGSS were made was because, at the time, Gen 2 was the only Gen that was unavailable on the DS (which killed GB/C compatibility). Gen 1 could be played via its remakes, and Gens 3 and 4 were obviously compatible, so that left Gen 2 out in the cold. On top of that, most of the batteries in GSC carts had died off, so the games literally weren't even playable anymore, anyways.

It was a similar story with the 3DS. GBA compatibility was gone, so only Gens 4 and 5 could still be played, which included Gen 2 via its remakes. That left Gen 3 out in the cold, thus necessitating remakes. Problem is that Gen 3 also included Gen 1, so that's one story that's still inaccessible on modern hardware.



But, it's still hard not to notice that some characters are treated better than others. Just compare Steven or Cynthia to your average E4 member, and even certain E4 members to other E4 members (Caitlin and Malva are more popular than Glacia and Aaron, for example, and it's hard not to see why).

Yeah, what happened to Misty in the anime was very unfortunate; it's amazing that she still has so many fans. I always hated the way the anime treated its female leads like they were interchangeable.



And, guess who are the two least characterized Gen 1 characters? :rolleyes2: Even other media don't exactly treat them that well, either.



From the start, HGSS were pretty radically different for female players. And, the unselected PC still appeared as a secondary rival. And, last time I checked, neither following Pokémon or the Pokéathlon were in GSC. The Kimono Girls were also very different and more important to the story, and how could the Safari Zone and the two new Routes not be a drastic change from the originals?

FRLG, on the other hand, played out identically to RB in almost every single way, because even a few nods to Yellow would've been too much change for them. :rolleyes2:



Damn right GF should be ashamed of the Sevii Islands, because they were crap. They were only slapped together to give GF an excuse to not put "scary" new things in Kanto and because Gen 1 needed a postgame, and GF were too cheap to give us Johto or borrow Orange from the anime. :rolleyes2:



Going by your analogy, HGSS were a delicious sundae with chocolate syrup, sprinkles, whipped cream, and a cherry on top, while FRLG were a plain scoop of vanilla with a few sprinkles added on. What do you think looks more appetizing?



This is true. :( It sucks for fans who don't really have any interest in the newest games, because they have less of a community to turn to, and fandom is not fandom without a community. Hoenn fans have it good now, but what about 5-10 years in the future?



Now, that's just amazing... {D:} Maybe, GF really does view Sevii as an Old Shame.

Well there was the detour to the first three Sevii islands after getting the Seventh badge, which is about as different as the detour to the Safari Zone in HGSS, or to capturing the Lati in ORAS (after the 5th badge), we kind of more since it had a long subplot than the other two detours. Well Kanto has Hoenn as company considering Hoenn didn't get any real new areas. Actually Hoenn got a poor man's version of the Sevii islands with the mystery islands, mountains, and forests. No plot in those areas :(

You know it'll be an interesting coincidence if Gen VII does include a Kanto re-remake, seeing how in FrLg we were only allowed to access III islands pre-post game, but post game we could visit all VII.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Well there was the detour to the first three Sevii islands after getting the Seventh badge, which is about as different as the detour to the Safari Zone in HGSS, or to capturing the Lati in ORAS (after the 5th badge), we kind of more since it had a long subplot than the other two detours.

A fetch-quest for some lost girl isn't exactly what I'd call a "long subplot." :P

And, speaking of fetch-quests, Sevii was home to one of the games' most infamous. Yes, the games forced you to not only wait until the postgame, but also go through this long, tedious fetch-quest just to be able to trade with the Hoenn games. (In contrast, HGSS and ORAS let you trade with DPP and XY, respectively, right from the start, regardless of whether or not you had the National Dex.) That, alone, is enough to mar the Sevii Islands.

Well Kanto has Hoenn as company considering Hoenn didn't get any real new areas. Actually Hoenn got a poor man's version of the Sevii islands with the mystery islands, mountains, and forests. No plot in those areas :(

Seeing as the Sevii Islands, themselves, were a poor man's Orange Islands (and Johto, to a lesser extent), that's pretty bad. :( (I can see why Emerald fans have been complaining about the lack of a Battle Frontier in ORAS.)

 

[Wicked3DS]

Oh look, something I can talk about without being flamed out.

The Sevii Islands could be made much better if they showed some actual incentive to go there other than just trad capability, like some more exclusive Pokémon and items. Also, the way the games are being made nowadays, there could be some REALLY good visuals for the area.

And yes, the Lostelle "subplot" was pretty lame. That should be completely removed and replaced with something else. I still liked the Sevii Islands overall though.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I meant to say 'Longer in comparison' not 'long' xD
Maybe they could make some of the islands (I-III) available as soon as we defeat Lt. Surge and have the rest open up one at a time up until we defeat the 7th gym. Post game we can see the extra islands that were meant for FRLG but weren't finished.

 

[Cerberus87]

Hahaha the Lostelle plot was also a nod to the anime, because it was the anime which first portrayed Hypno as a pervert who hypnotized and kidnapped children. {XD}

 

[BettyNewbie]

The Sevii Islands could be made much better if they showed some actual incentive to go there other than just trad capability, like some more exclusive Pokémon and items. Also, the way the games are being made nowadays, there could be some REALLY good visuals for the area.

The big problem with Sevii is that GF, for the most part, used them as a dumping ground for things that we should've had access to in Kanto but didn't for the sole reason of being "faithful" (like breeding and berries). This also included trading compatibility with RSE, which is why we should've been able to trade from the start, as would later the case with HGSS and ORAS (in regards to DPP and XY, respectively); at least, people who didn't want to be restricted to just the first 150 would've had a way out.

Another major issue with the islands is that they simply had no identity. They lacked their own League, they had no backstory, their tilesets were ripped off from Kanto, their music was ripped off from Johto, and they were literally designed to be nothing but an extension to Kanto rather than a real region. Again, I can see why GF would want to just forget that they ever existed.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

The big problem with Sevii is that GF, for the most part, used them as a dumping ground for things that we should've had access to in Kanto but didn't for the sole reason of being "faithful" (like breeding and berries). This also included trading compatibility with RSE, which is why we should've been able to trade from the start, as would later the case with HGSS and ORAS (in regards to DPP and XY, respectively); at least, people who didn't want to be restricted to just the first 150 would've had a way out.

Another major issue with the islands is that they simply had no identity. They lacked their own League, they had no backstory, their tilesets were ripped off from Kanto, their music was ripped off from Johto, and they were literally designed to be nothing but an extension to Kanto rather than a real region. Again, I can see why GF would want to just forget that they ever existed.

I have read that the Sevii islands are actually part of Kanto, so it may be on purpose. I also think that GF had a lot more planned for the islands but either due to rushing to get Emerald done (or the Generation as a whole as the GBA was dying) they couldn't get done what they planned. I say this as Gf put a lot of mystery into some of the islands but never had much to show for it at the end. I think that a re-remake will fix this.

Btw want to know who also hasn't been brought up in any game or even any other canon since FrLg? Four Island native Lorelei (Agatha is referenced by Shauntel , while the boys appear in HGSS).

 

[BettyNewbie]

I have read that the Sevii islands are actually part of Kanto, so it may be on purpose. I also think that GF had a lot more planned for the islands but either due to rushing to get Emerald done (or the Generation as a whole as the GBA was dying) they couldn't get done what they planned. I say this as Gf put a lot of mystery into some of the islands but never had much to show for it at the end. I think that a re-remake will fix this.

It would have to take a new remake to fix it, because the odds of Sevii returning in any other game are slim to none. Again, I really wish they had just found another way to deal with Ruby and Sapphire's compatibility issues and saved FRLG for a later Generation, when they had more time on their hands and better technology to work with.

Btw want to know who also hasn't been brought up in any game or even any other canon since FrLg? Four Island native Lorelei (Agatha is referenced by Shauntel , while the boys appear in HGSS).

Coincidence, I think not. :rolleyes2: Another Sevii native, Celio, also seems to have vanished into oblivion, the most forgotten of the Pokémon Storage System developers. Even Bulbapedia, itself, seems to have forgotten his existence:

Bill is one of two male characters in charge of a PC storage system, running the systems for the Kanto and Johto regions. Cassius is the second, running the system for the Kalos region. The characters in charge of the storage systems in the Hoenn, Sinnoh and Unova regions are all female.

Because, Celio is secretly a girl... or a genderless robot. {XD}

(Apparently, Bulbapedia has also forgotten that the Sevii Islands are supposed to be a "region." Ouch!)

 

[Cerberus87]

Coincidence, I think not. :rolleyes2: Another Sevii native, Celio, also seems to have vanished into oblivion, the most forgotten of the Pokémon Storage System developers. Even Bulbapedia, itself, seems to have forgotten his existence:



Because, Celio is secretly a girl... or a genderless robot. {XD}

(Apparently, Bulbapedia has also forgotten that the Sevii Islands are supposed to be a "region." Ouch!)

You misread that. Celio is a PSS dev, but he's not "in charge" of the PSS in the Sevii Islands. I think Bill is still in charge of that. Sevii Islands is not a true region, and Bulbapedia doesn't treat it as such, despite having quick link to Sevii Islands under the Regions tab.

 

[Wicked3DS]

The big problem with Sevii is that GF, for the most part, used them as a dumping ground for things that we should've had access to in Kanto but didn't for the sole reason of being "faithful" (like breeding and berries). This also included trading compatibility with RSE, which is why we should've been able to trade from the start, as would later the case with HGSS and ORAS (in regards to DPP and XY, respectively); at least, people who didn't want to be restricted to just the first 150 would've had a way out.

Another major issue with the islands is that they simply had no identity. They lacked their own League, they had no backstory, their tilesets were ripped off from Kanto, their music was ripped off from Johto, and they were literally designed to be nothing but an extension to Kanto rather than a real region. Again, I can see why GF would want to just forget that they ever existed.

Dumping ground is a good word for it. The thing is, they could reuse it because it's convenient and people already know what it is. They could keep all of the ruins and areas with extra Pokémon, add some kind of battle frontier/resort or a league of its own, move breeding to Cerulean with the existing day care (and ditch the ledges O_O), and scatter the berries through out. I also think they could do some more with Icefall Path than just Waterfall and a lame battle at the end.

I have to disagree about the music being "ripped off from Johto" because I'm pretty sure that was intentional. It was part of them setting up HG/SS. I've since thought and I agree they could've done more, but there was definitely enough by way of hints at a next game. I also think maybe they didn't want to make it too obvious that HG/SS were going to exist.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Dumping ground is a good word for it. The thing is, they could reuse it because it's convenient and people already know what it is. They could keep all of the ruins and areas with extra Pokémon, add some kind of battle frontier/resort or a league of its own, move breeding to Cerulean with the existing day care (and ditch the ledges O_O), and scatter the berries through out. I also think they could do some more with Icefall Path than just Waterfall and a lame battle at the end.

Essentialy, what GF would need to do is not make Sevii a bunch of useless, generic islands that do little to improve the gameplay experience. Either put some thought into them, or you might as well just scrap them altogether and give us a real region.

I have to disagree about the music being "ripped off from Johto" because I'm pretty sure that was intentional. It was part of them setting up HG/SS. I've since thought and I agree they could've done more, but there was definitely enough by way of hints at a next game. I also think maybe they didn't want to make it too obvious that HG/SS were going to exist.

Seeing as HGSS were A) a full five years away, and B) basically ignored Sevii's existence, I highly doubt that's likely. I think it was just GF being cheap and lazy.

 

[Wicked3DS]

Essentialy, what GF would need to do is not make Sevii a bunch of useless, generic islands that do little to improve the gameplay experience. Either put some thought into them, or you might as well just scrap them altogether and give us a real region.



Seeing as HGSS were A) a full five years away, and B) basically ignored Sevii's existence, I highly doubt that's likely. I think it was just GF being cheap and lazy.

I didn't think Sevii was that bad, but it wasn't very satisfying to complete later on when trading was the only thing it unlocked. The new Pokémon were definitely cool to see though, and catching the Unown is always a fun gimmick, even if it is just a gimmick.

Just because they weren't in HG/SS doesn't mean that they weren't used as a setup for them. You honestly think that there was ZERO thought about doing a Johto remake before and they could have hinted at it? I just think there's too much Johto stuff in that area to write it off completely.

Also, keep in mind that all of this is SUBJECTIVE to opinion as well unless GF comes out and says something. That was one of the things that drove me away from this thread before, it felt like my opinions held no weight and just were completely wrong.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I didn't think Sevii was that bad, but it wasn't very satisfying to complete later on when trading was the only thing it unlocked. The new Pokémon were definitely cool to see though, and catching the Unown is always a fun gimmick, even if it is just a gimmick.

What new Pokémon? Aside from Deoxys (which was event-only), the only "new" Pokémon that were in Sevii were things that we had already caught just a Generation earlier but had to catch all over again because of RS' compatibility kill. As for Unown, GSC (and later, HGSS) did it better.

Just because they weren't in HG/SS doesn't mean that they weren't used as a setup for them. You honestly think that there was ZERO thought about doing a Johto remake before and they could have hinted at it? I just think there's too much Johto stuff in that area to write it off completely.

Do you seriously think that GF plans games 5-6 years in advance? As far as I know, HGSS weren't in planning any earlier than 2006 (when DP first came out). Besides, HGSS didn't even reference Sevii, let alone include it; those islands basically ceased to exist after FRLG.

What GF was more than likely trying to do was give us a "fake Johto" in Sevii because they wouldn't let us visit the real one in Gen 3 for whatever reason.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

What new Pokémon? Aside from Deoxys (which was event-only), the only "new" Pokémon that were in Sevii were things that we had already caught just a Generation earlier but had to catch all over again because of RS' compatibility kill. As for Unown, GSC (and later, HGSS) did it better.



Do you seriously think that GF plans games 5-6 years in advance? As far as I know, HGSS weren't in planning any earlier than 2006 (when DP first came out). Besides, HGSS didn't even reference Sevii, let alone include it; those islands basically ceased to exist after FRLG.

What GF was more than likely trying to do was give us a "fake Johto" in Sevii because they wouldn't let us visit the real one in Gen 3 for whatever reason.

I think that GF putting in real Johto may have required GF to actually do more work, as some of the gym leaders at the time of Gen II wouldn't have been gym leaders in Gen I/III time. Also it's possible that Johto was saved for it's remakes to make people anticipate Johto remakes. Of course they didn't do the same (by this I mean give the region a break) with Kanto now did they xD.

I think that GF should've put the Sevii into Emerald alongside the Frontier and called it a day (the islands were my favorite part of FrLg so I would've loved them in Emerald alongside the Frontier) instead of remaking Kanto and adding the islands to fill in the dex. Only the Sevii islands would be based on the Ryuukyu islands (which would lie south of Hoenn) instead of the Izu islands. Perhaps they would've put one facility on each island and have the Battle Tower be part of Seven island. We could still have had Lorelei pop up as a cameo.

Anyways back to reality. If the Sevii islands return perhaps GF will include the Orange islands as well. I say this as the Sevii islands are based on the Izu islands which are between the island Cinnabar is based on and the Bonin islands (which Orange is based on). Actually Izu consists of 9 main islands (despite it usually referred to as Seven even in real life), and according to coding there were meant to be 22 islands.

 

[Cerberus87]

Johto makes ZERO sense from a storyline perspective. Red is already the supreme trainer, what does he have to gain by going to Johto? It only made sense in GSC because there was still a challenge beyond the Champion, which was Red itself, so it was justified for Gold to go to Kanto and earn their badges as preparation to go to Mt. Silver.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Johto makes ZERO sense from a storyline perspective. Red is already the supreme trainer, what does he have to gain by going to Johto?

Uh, 8 more badges? (Hey, if Gary Oak can have more than 8 badges...) Plus, we could learn more about why the PC eventually ended up on Mt. Silver. (Which IS in Johto, BTW.) Better than a bunch of dumb fetch-quests and a lame "Trainer Tower." (Which didn't exactly have the greatest story, themselves.)

I think that GF putting in real Johto may have required GF to actually do more work, as some of the gym leaders at the time of Gen II wouldn't have been gym leaders in Gen I/III time.

Considering the lack of effort that had been put into FRLG, maybe forcing GF to do more work would've been a good thing.

I think that GF should've put the Sevii into Emerald alongside the Frontier and called it a day (the islands were my favorite part of FrLg so I would've loved them in Emerald alongside the Frontier) instead of remaking Kanto and adding the islands to fill in the dex. Only the Sevii islands would be based on the Ryuukyu islands (which would lie south of Hoenn) instead of the Izu islands. Perhaps they would've put one facility on each island and have the Battle Tower be part of Seven island. We could still have had Lorelei pop up as a cameo.

That would've been much better. {:3} I think Sevii would've worked better alongside Hoenn than they did Kanto. (Since Hoenn had more things than Kanto, they would've been used as a dumping ground for modern amenities nearly as much, and that awful Ruby/Sapphire fetch-quest obviously wouldn't have been needed at all. Then, they could've given us a quality Gen 1 remake on the DS in Gen 4. Perfect!)

Anyways back to reality. If the Sevii islands return perhaps GF will include the Orange islands as well. I say this as the Sevii islands are based on the Izu islands which are between the island Cinnabar is based on and the Bonin islands (which Orange is based on). Actually Izu consists of 9 main islands (despite it usually referred to as Seven even in real life), and according to coding there were meant to be 22 islands.

There'd be no point to having Sevii if you already have Orange, with its own League, backstory, and everything.

 

[Cerberus87]

Uh, 8 more badges? (Hey, if Gary Oak can have more than 8 badges...) Plus, we could learn more about why the PC eventually ended up on Mt. Silver. (Which IS in Johto, BTW.) Better than a bunch of dumb fetch-quests and a lame "Trainer Tower." (Which didn't exactly have the greatest story, themselves.)

Yeah but you need something to happen after you get the other 8 badges. The problem is that, according to canon, there was nothing to happen, as Red was the supreme trainer after becoming Champion and later relinquishing his position, which actually made him even more important.

The Mt. Silver is in Johto but it's not accessible from Johto, only from Kanto.

Since the whole point of the gem quest was to create connectivity between RSE and FRLG, I think we can safely discard it as non-canon in the new timeline, especially since a future remake wouldn't need it, but that's only due to circumstance.

Red's trip to the Sevii Islands only covers a small part of his story post-Champion. He most certainly didn't need to go to Johto and earn the Johto badges, though. In GSC (and HGSS), however, there's dialogue that hints at the Kanto leaders thinking less of a Johto trainer like Gold (at least that's how I interpreted it), which means that, even after becoming Champion, Gold wasn't as widely respected as Red was.

Another thing is that a Johto storyline for Red wouldn't be nearly as long as his Kanto one. The Kanto story in GSC is MUCH shorter and there's almost nothing to do except fight gym leaders, collect items and do menial tasks like retrieving the Machine Part to the Power Plant. A Johto postgame in FRLG wouldn't necessarily be more fleshed out than what we got with the Sevii Islands. The GSC Kanto was a watered down version of the RBY one. There was probably space in the ROM to fit in Johto but there probably wouldn't be a lot of things to do in it since it would almost be a different game. Also, at least from memory, I don't remember NPCs addressing a possible Red trip to Johto in GSC, probably not to spoil the surprise, but if he really was there between RBY and GSC there would be people who remembered him.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Yeah but you need something to happen after you get the other 8 badges. The problem is that, according to canon, there was nothing to happen, as Red was the supreme trainer after becoming Champion and later relinquishing his position, which actually made him even more important.

The Mt. Silver is in Johto but it's not accessible from Johto, only from Kanto.

Since the whole point of the gem quest was to create connectivity between RSE and FRLG, I think we can safely discard it as non-canon in the new timeline, especially since a future remake wouldn't need it, but that's only due to circumstance.

Red's trip to the Sevii Islands only covers a small part of his story post-Champion. He most certainly didn't need to go to Johto and earn the Johto badges, though. In GSC (and HGSS), however, there's dialogue that hints at the Kanto leaders thinking less of a Johto trainer like Gold (at least that's how I interpreted it), which means that, even after becoming Champion, Gold wasn't as widely respected as Red was.

Another thing is that a Johto storyline for Red wouldn't be nearly as long as his Kanto one. The Kanto story in GSC is MUCH shorter and there's almost nothing to do except fight gym leaders, collect items and do menial tasks like retrieving the Machine Part to the Power Plant. A Johto postgame in FRLG wouldn't necessarily be more fleshed out than what we got with the Sevii Islands. The GSC Kanto was a watered down version of the RBY one. There was probably space in the ROM to fit in Johto but there probably wouldn't be a lot of things to do in it since it would almost be a different game. Also, at least from memory, I don't remember NPCs addressing a possible Red trip to Johto in GSC, probably not to spoil the surprise, but if he really was there between RBY and GSC there would be people who remembered him.

I think that the dialogue you're talking about is a reference to the real world. People from the parts Johto is based on tend to be looked down as country bumpkins (think of how Northerners tend to view Southerners in the U.S. and you'll get the picture) by those in real life Kanto.

That's true, it would've been as bland as the Kanto story in the Johto centric games. I think that is one reason why GF isn't fond of letting us visit old regions in the newer games (not counting remakes as the region itself isn't really being 'visited').

One good thing about the Ruby-Sapphire quest is that it had references to the events of the Johto centric games, such as the research into evolution through magnetism/radio waves (Red Gyarados), Silver being Giovanni's son (more of a HGSS thing as GSC doesn't bring up a son), plus the last two executives we fight are likely Archer and Ariana. So all of the hints to the sequels in FRLG were in the post game...

 

[BettyNewbie]

Yeah but you need something to happen after you get the other 8 badges.

What about E4 rematches? The PC (quit ignoring/erasing the female PCs) might also want to be Champion of the entire Indigo League and not just half of it. Adventure is a good enough reason.

A Johto postgame in FRLG wouldn't necessarily be more fleshed out than what we got with the Sevii Islands. The GSC Kanto was a watered down version of the RBY one.

Fighting old Gym Leaders and seeing familiar faces again, alone, is more enjoyable and superior to a bunch of silly fetch-quests. Plus, Johto is still an actual region with an actual backstory and culture and not a generic collection of islands with hardly anything to do.

Of course, there was a good alternative to Johto as a quality postgame area, but that required borrowing from the anime. (Which is what most fans wanted, anyways.)

That's true, it would've been as bland as the Kanto story in the Johto centric games. I think that is one reason why GF isn't fond of letting us visit old regions in the newer games (not counting remakes as the region itself isn't really being 'visited').

GF doesn't seem to like sequels period. (Even B2W2 were only made due to pressure from Nintendo, with the DS being a dying handheld and all.) Plus, a second region would be an adventure-centric postgame, which just won't fly in this day and age of competitive battling. :rolleyes2: