Romanticism

[Entermaid]

Romanticism/Romantic

"the quality or state of being impractical or unrealistic : romantic feelings or ideas"

"of, characterized by, or suggestive of an idealized view of reality"

Examples:

The music industry has gone down hill, "artists" rely upon auto-tune, don't write their own music, involve themselves in media scandals, are poor role models, exploit young demographic with nudity, and provide a poor message to listeners. Music should be the song writing, the emotion and talent of the singer and the musicians.​

It doesn't matter if [insert name] doesn't attend school or work, lacks responsibility, has cheated on me or lied to me in the past, [insert name] is a good person and is the person I should be with.​

Some of, if not most, of our opinions of the way things should be are based on romantic ideals. Are these ideals valid? If yes, why? If not, why not?

Is there such thing as a better or worse romantic ideal, if so, what makes them different?

 

[maccrash]

the notion of being depressed in a suburban area is something that I romanticize a lot because of how much music and movies I watch/listen to that fit that idea. (which is weird.) and it's not a good thing that I romanticize this, and I kinda wonder how I've come to romanticize something this specific. however, I don't think it's a particularly harmful thing to romanticize so whatever. romanticizing depression might be bad but it's not necessarily the depression I'm romanticizing -- it's the finding comfort in little things or quirks in the suburban area or something, or finding solace in music or something akin to that, that I romanticize. it's a bit hard to explain and a bit muddled. I dunno.

 

[Entermaid]

Yeah, depression, sadness, misery, tend to be romanticized quite a bit. I will admit, I love movies, television, and video-games with darker themes (shin megami tensei, persona, dante's inferno, silent hill, resident evil, bayonetta, ect). Thinking about it, the acclaimed films make us cry, we enjoy being depressed for those moments. I can see why there is a fascination with depression.

Even architecturally there is a sense of romanticism in darkness; I for one love gothic/victorian /cathedral styled homes. There is also elements of nostalgic and antique romanticism.

If I have one room of my house look remotely like any of these, then I will be fulfilled.

Spoiler:

This is an irrational romanticized ideal that historic gothic/victorian is better and more sophisticated than modern homes.

1. Cost of upkeep and restoration.
2. Material not durable. Easily warped/damaged.
3. Cost of purchasing a historical home greater than a modern home.
4. Costs to modernize plumbing and electric.
5. Little to no benefit of owning historical home.

 

[Kanzler]

I think there's a difference between idealism and wishful thinking and it's important to tease these apart. It's not bad that we have ideals, but if one relies too much on ideals that cannot reasonably be fulfilled then they're just setting themselves up for failure and in this sense those ideals are unjustified. Take this example:

It doesn't matter if [insert name] doesn't attend school or work, lacks responsibility, has cheated on me or lied to me in the past, [insert name] is a good person and is the person I should be with.

That begs the question on what grounds is [insert name] a good person? By analogy I could say that

It doesn't matter if it's been raining every day for the past ten days in Toronto, nor that the roads freeze over for the winter months, nor that thousands of people die annually of heatstroke over the summer, Toronto's weather is ****ing awesome and I should live there because I love good weather

and it makes absolutely no sense. But I'm sure many people are idealistic about their significant other as well as Toronto's weather because most people don't make sense.

Ideals are usually conceived as something to work towards, and the process of achieving such ideals is just as important, if not more, than the status of having those ideals at all - take our government for example. It doesn't take a cynic to note that government is often dysfunctional, but we would still give it credit for being a process that works towards its ideals.

If [insert name] is working on attending school or work, developing a sense of responsibility, and has atoned for past cheating and lying, then we can say that [insert name] is working towards becoming a good person and perhaps the having the ideal of [insert name] being a good person is justifiable. I would conclude that having an ideal means little if there's no observable process or action towards meeting that ideal.

 

[Lotus the Cat]

I don't entirely agree with the definition provided at the beginning of this thread. I don't think idealism and romanticism are the same things. Romanticism requires imagination and emotion, whereas idealism does not. Romanticism may be unrealistic, but not in the same way that ideals may be unrealistic.

I'm not terribly good at describing it as I feel it or thinking of a perfect example. I personally find things like Christmas to be romantic, with the stories about Santa/St. Nick, the music, the decorations, lights and traditions.

This is an irrational romanticized ideal that historic gothic/victorian is better and more sophisticated than modern homes.

1. Cost of upkeep and restoration.
2. Material not durable. Easily warped/damaged.
3. Cost of purchasing a historical home greater than a modern home.
4. Costs to modernize plumbing and electric.
5. Little to no benefit of owning historical home.

Off-topic a bit. I don't agree with point 2 and that shouldn't stop you aiming for a house such as in the pictures! Often the quality of the construction materials (and the craftsmen) are superior to modern versions. Stone and timber will last centuries if cared for correctly. Reinforced concrete is not likely to. Engineers of the past also often over-engineered their structures, whereas engineers today will only apply relatively small safety factors on top of the requirements of a structure at the time of design (e.g. a factor of 0.15).

 

[Magic Christmas Lights]

The world is pretty much awful. There's rape, glaring inequalities, murder, child abuse, and death everywhere. And more.. But if we didn't have our romantic self-delusions, it would be a lot harder to enjoy life. So yes, idealism is adaptive. It's what allows us to look past the bad and, even if the good is only illusory, it gives us some pleasure and peace of mind.

 

[griever7x]

Yes, I think romanticism/idealism is indeed valid.
It's a mix of reason and emotion, but perhaps the most defining characteristic of romanticism, in my opinion, is the will to act.
As such, it can be a driving force, a fuel; passion is often associated with romanticism.
Indeed, it can work similarly to passion: we all know how the latter can give a person a great advantage in whatever aspect of their life.
Better or worse? Certainly, but these words are relative so it's very hard for me to answer in a satisfactory manner.

 

[rebel to conform]

To an extent, romanticizing is a utilization of creativity, which is a positive thing. Its impulsive nature is a key reason why romanticism is necessary and functional. However, basing choices and opinions on romanticized ideas can be harmful, if they aren't in line with facts or conflict with rational thinking.