Semi-Rant on "Rom Bases"

[~Teh Panda~]

If you're reading this it's already too late

 

[Full Metal]

My opinion...
Well, I personally don't have an issue with Rom bases, so long as proper credit is given out of course.
IMO, if a hack is nothing more than a base with a few map edits / scripts then people won't play it simply because it's not worth playing.
Of course, that is very ... in consistent ( for lack of better wording ) among hackers/editors/etc. Which is why I don't believe that particularly large bases should be released. EG: Release a patch that inserts a routine at a given offset, or a patch that changes a pointer, etc. Or maybe something that is largely tedious, easy to mess up and otherwise sensitive and such. If it's a really cool feature, then why not share it in the form of a patch? ( this was the goal of my 'package' system I started a while back, forgot about, and will be working on again...when I get the time. :P )

 

[~Teh Panda~]

My opinion...
Well, I personally don't have an issue with Rom bases, so long as proper credit is given out of course.
IMO, if a hack is nothing more than a base with a few map edits / scripts then people won't play it simply because it's not worth playing.
Of course, that is very ... in consistent ( for lack of better wording ) among hackers/editors/etc. Which is why I don't believe that particularly large bases should be released. EG: Release a patch that inserts a routine at a given offset, or a patch that changes a pointer, etc. Or maybe something that is largely tedious, easy to mess up and otherwise sensitive and such. If it's a really cool feature, then why not share it in the form of a patch? ( this was the goal of my 'package' system I started a while back, forgot about, and will be working on again...when I get the time. :P )

While I see your point here, why not just release on how to do the things included in the patch? A mindless person can put a patch on their hack with in 10 seconds, it at least takes some general knowledge to apply a hack in which someone has shown how to do, not just given it out pre prepared.

Sort of like Day and Night, kind of over done now. If it were release like the berry system tutorial, people would still find the magic they did in it as it was released. I am in all ways supportive of tools, but when you can slap on something someone else made then that simply feels unfulfilling to me.

 

[marcc5m]

The whole ROM is something someone else made.

Personally, I don't see a problem with it. If you want to help people by making a ROM base, make a ROM base. If they end up just doing some maps in it and calling it their hack, then, well, it isn't going to go very far any way without any scripts. Also, some ROM bases, such as Banjora Marxville's Ruby base, can just be played, so that it's the same game, you're just playing it with different graphics. And a lot of people, including me, find tile inserting and the like fun. But then what? When you've inserted stuff you aren't going to use that others may find useful, then what harm is there in sharing?

 

[Quilava's Master]

Here's my take on Rom Bases:

Bases for tiles, I don't mind. I don't use them but I'm not against them as some people can't insert tiles. But rom bases for bigger things always cause problems. Simply because people don't know it works so it's very easy to mess them up. I think that's why a lot of people have problems running JPAN's Hacked Engine patch. They don't understand it so they mess up a whole lot. It's like giving someone a missile minus the instruction manual, yeah they'll get the jist of how to use it but the possibility of them messing up and blowing something else up are higher than if they if they understood how to fully work the missile.

 

[Full Metal]

While I see your point here, why not just release on how to do the things included in the patch? A mindless person can put a patch on their hack with in 10 seconds, it at least takes some general knowledge to apply a hack in which someone has shown how to do, not just given it out pre prepared.

Sort of like Day and Night, kind of over done now. If it were release like the berry system tutorial, people would still find the magic they did in it as it was released. I am in all ways supportive of tools, but when you can slap on something someone else made then that simply feels unfulfilling to me.

Exactly. I'm honestly split 50:50 on my stance in this.
On one side - If you feel nice and want to give to the community, that's great, go ahead. If the patch is abused, then people will catch on, and the hack won't gain much support and will eventually die off because the creator figured out there's no point. Unfinished Hack = No players = IrrelevantToErrybodyelse

On the other side - If you're feeling caring, and want to give to the community, follow the proverb:

If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime

in the sense that the user of this information will ultimately benefit much more from that than a patch / package / etc. They will learn from the experience, and then their minds will become curious. They will want to do something and want to figure it out. Then you have the satisfaction of knowing you taught them that.

But when it all boils down to it, it's just a matter of how seriously you take this. If you just do it in your past-time, and are more into it as a game then feel free to use patches / rom bases / tools-out-the-whazoo / etc. Otherwise, if you're genuinely interested in the hacking side of things, then just read up on some information, as there is lots of it readily available on this sight alone -- not even counting the info available from the almighty Google. :)

 

[Pokepal17]

I don't see a problem with it, but it does show the laziness of some hackers. Not because the hackers can't insert their own tiles, what I see a problem with is things that are a little skewed (such as grass tones on paths not matching with the grass colour) that take fives seconds to fix never get fixed. It just shows a lot of sloppiness.

Apart from that, I think using a base is fine, unless the base is another hack. :3

 

[Ninja Caterpie]

The whole ROM is something someone else made.

This.

ROM Hacking at its essence is a communal thing; people research and post their stuff for other people to make tools and instructional things with. Yet more others then make ROM Hacks using these tools and other documents. It's a big co-existential... mesh of goodness. Without everyone doing their part, others are then made unable to do theirs.

Furthermore, I don't think 'stealing creativity' is a nice, nor particularly true, way to put using a ROM base. For one, the ROM base was made by someone for those people to use. If they didn't want others using it, they'd create a tutorial to do what they've done, they'd put their resources up or just not say a thing at all. If someone gives their work in this form for others to use, I don't find a problem with it.

Running off someone else's hack, however, is just wrong. That's actually their work and it wasn't meant at all for anyone else to work off.

 

[Poster]

It's like a microwave; heats things pretty easily, but the food tastes much better if heated under an actual fire, which is a rare thing to see nowadays.

However, I consider the hackers who use rombases more like 'tasteless' other than 'lazy' and/or 'thieves of creativity'. Because making things your own way actually matches your own taste, while using something someone else made ALWAYS turns into something that you expected different in your own imagination. Unless you don't care, of course.

That's my angle, and mine only, though.

 

[Banjora Marxvile]

My view is similar to Fireworks view. Using them shouldn't actually make a hack more or less popular, same with if you use the default FR tiles. For instance, some people choose not to change FR or Ruby tiles, can that be seen as lazy if they choose not to use new tiles? Same for a ROM Base, they may just like the tiles, and instead of inserting the same tiles (and probably making a mistake) they use a ROM Base and add to it. And anyway, if I recall, most hacks are rated mainly on scripts, tiles are a second thought (unless they are REALLY bad or REALLY good), so that's my view. ROM Base usage is good if used right and added to, as well as some good scripting is added too.

Personally I make ROM Bases exactly as Fireworks kinda said it, I don't see anything wrong with the full Ruby game, I just want to add some pizzazz to it, and make playing it more enjoyable and perhaps encourage the playing of the full game (as people are put off by tiles, weirdly)

 

[FoggyDoggy]

I don't think a ROM base is that big of a deal, so long as the person using it decides to drastically change the contents of the ROM over the course of the hacking.
It'd be kind of sad to see a hack come out that is just a conglomeration of patches and whatnot...

 

[Bolens]

I think (in my own opinion) that ROM bases are very bad. I'm not going to lie... I have used them before. The only issue I have is that it felt like I was just using someone else's work. In all aspects I really was! I just like to try to do everything myself :)

 

[DVK]

I think (in my own opinion) that ROM bases are very bad. I'm not going to lie... I have used them before. The only issue I have is that it felt like I was just using someone else's work. In all aspects I really was! I just like to try to do everything myself :)

and using the base FR tiles isn't using someone else's work? hacks that just use the base R/S/FR/LG/E or whatever Roms are 'stealing' Game freaks creativity, so why is using a Rom base any different? personally i don't care about whether anyone uses Rom bases, they are good if one has exactly what you imagined for your own hack, whether it be JPans hacked base or a simple base with just tiles or adding the DNS etc. i think the only thing that matters is that the Rom Base you use should be your way of interpreting your, um... lets say 'Pokemon Fantasy' and if used well to contribute to the overall 'feel' of your Hack, and helping it become more appealing to your target audience(which is of course everyone here at PC, or Wahack or whatever), then why not use one?

 

[~Teh Panda~]

and using the base FR tiles isn't using someone else's work? hacks that just use the base R/S/FR/LG/E or whatever Roms are 'stealing' Game freaks creativity, so why is using a Rom base any different? personally i don't care about whether anyone uses Rom bases, they are good if one has exactly what you imagined for your own hack, whether it be JPans hacked base or a simple base with just tiles or adding the DNS etc. i think the only thing that matters is that the Rom Base you use should be your way of interpreting your, um... lets say 'Pokemon Fantasy' and if used well to contribute to the overall 'feel' of your Hack, and helping it become more appealing to your target audience(which is of course everyone here at PC, or Wahack or whatever), then why not use one?

You're pondering off the point at hand, using the rom as *your* repeat *your* starting piece is the essence of rom hacking in a literal sense. Which is why its called rom hacking, you are going into a pre-made program in which you edit it to your likings making your own new game. And to those who only wish to hack to put out a good and playable hack, power to them, there are people such as myself who wish to do that and also feel like they are learning something along the way. One more point as well, you don't have to use a rom base to not use the games original tiles... You have all your own will to insert your own tiles.

 

[M.L]

i say why use others bases you can find many tile inserters nowdays to help you insert or create and then their you have your own insane game without using others if you know what i meen so ja but uhmm well say you ask permission from a rombase hacker but you do alota edits and such it shouldnt be too bad .... as a tile inserter i know what things feel like

 

[WeirdEars]

The title threw me a little bit because I always considered ROM base to mean the ROM you're hacking (e.g. Red or Gold), but yeah, I agree with the microwave analogy. It gets the job done, but it's not as good as the real thing.

Also, (slightly offtopic) Banjora Marxvile, I love the NW5 theme you've got going on with you sig, avatar and tagline. What an amazing song.

 

[Masterge77]

To be fair, ROM bases are for those who do not want to have the same graphics as the default graphics, but do not know how to insert graphics into a ROM and screw up the graphics, turning the game into a glitchy mess, as well as those who want to have new graphics in their hack, but do not want to spend time inserting graphics, and then tweak them and insert more graphics, personally, they are fine, but I prefer to take time inserting graphics myself.....

 

[M.L]

To be fair, ROM bases are for those who do not want to have the same graphics as the default graphics, but do not know how to insert graphics into a ROM and screw up the graphics, turning the game into a glitchy mess, as well as those who want to have new graphics in their hack, but do not want to spend time inserting graphics, and then tweak them and insert more graphics, personally, they are fine, but I prefer to take time inserting graphics myself.....

i completly agree with you but i do think that if you start a thread in the [team disscusions] thread and state you need i tile inserter or creator im sure someone would apply since if you use a rom base their may be other games that use the same tiles and it will look un-original.....

 

[AmethystEEVEE]

There isn't really any problem with it, honestly.
It's a base because it could be used (occasionally without permission, but I've never seen a base for anything that didn't require credit where due), there's no 'stealing creativity' because that's just it. The only problem is that other people use the same base, which can make both/all hacks with the base seem unoriginal, when they may not be able to insert their own tiles. It's not unoriginal, it's just overdone. But because it's overdone, you can find unpopular ones and use those. On the other hand, ROM bases can be found anywhere, not just here at PC. And some people who do know how to insert their own tiles might not have the time, which means they're not showing laziness, but that they're putting extra time into hacking, since they could be working on getting the next promotion (if they have a job), or doing schoolwork (if they're students). But instead, they're taking what little time they have between the 8 hours of sleep they're supposed to get (and most likely don't) and when they get home to hack. Honestly, if they just hacked 24/7, they'd be lazy. But most of us don't just hack 24/7 we watch TV instead. That's a joke, btw, not aimed at anybody in particular. That doesn't mean it's impossible for someone to use ROM bases and still be lazy/unoriginal, but that doesn't have a lot to do with the ROM bases and the blame shouldn't be pinned on the fact that ROM bases exist. You can think whatever you want of them, but seriously. If you don't like the song, don't listen to it. I guess this thread does help people deciding whether or not to use a ROM base, but it seems like there's a lot of... Well, idk, forcing of opinions here. It's probably just me, though.
/wall of text

I personally just use the S/R/E/FR/LG ROMs instead of ROM bases, because I find it simpler, and less people do that now, but that has nothing to do with my opinion, so nobody cares (and if you do, you're wasting your time).

if you use a rom base their may be other games that use the same tiles and it will look un-original.....

Wait, I'm misunderstanding something, are you saying the creativity and originality of the game is deciphered entirely on the tiles used (or not used) or are you saying that it will only seem unoriginal at first glance but may or may not be? I like to know what points are being made so I can better myself at the topic (like this is a hacking thread, so I'm reading posts so I can make better decisions when I don't know whether or not to edit something...)

 

[LightningStrike]

I try not to use rom bases, because I agree. I also think that's why the quality of hacks is decreasing, because in the past, talented hackers worked for months to make, from scratch, an epic hack for people to play. And when the dust cleared, the results were awesome. Now, anybody can grab a rom base and make the worst maps in the universe.