Sick of Ash?

[randomspot555]

Ash is just getting old. Not in age, though...well he's losing popularity. If he plummets down enough...
you might expect a new character after all.

Nope. Pokemon the anime's central goal is to tell Ash's story. To expect a new main character for any reason would be the end of the anime as we know it.

Losing popularity? Who is more popular than Ash in the anime? Max? Misty? He's probably the most recognized face of Pokemon besides Pikachu.

 

[Sophidius]

(Then don't come here thread hater!)
Ash always leaves his pokemon behind except Pikachu
shouldn't be at like lv.100?

Nope, Pikachu always loses his power after a region. Remember the Magnemites? Ash had to retrain his Pokemon all over again.

Nope. Pokemon the anime's central goal is to tell Ash's story. To expect a new main character for any reason would be the end of the anime as we know it.

Losing popularity? Who is more popular than Ash in the anime? Max? Misty? He's probably the most recognized face of Pokemon besides Pikachu.

That´s IT!
They should make a 500+ episode saga about Pikachu without Ash or any other Pokemon trainer. See how strong Pikachu is without his beloved trainer!

 

[ducko]

I think ASH can grow up now. And Pikachu can grow up too.

 

[Wolfwhispers]

I like Ash, but I do agree that some things should be changed. Like the first 2 1/2 seasons. (Kanto, Orange Islands, and half of Johto) Those were some good episodes that actually seemed to have a point, a bit of matureity and also some sort of interesting lesson. I wish it would go back to that, instead of continually making more dumb looking pokemon that really don't have a purpose and an even dumber team. Seriously, I thought Team Magma/Aqua was just stupid, but Team Galatic... that's really just sad.

 

[Skymin]

Maybe Ash shouldn't be 10 anymore. He sure never looked like it. They should zip into the future, about 16 or 17 or something. I might actually watch it then.

 

[JojoX2]

I didn´t have the time to read through the whole thread, but here´s my opinion:

Ash is the typical character of each bad anime: Friendly all the time, everything´s "cool", at least in the german version of the Anime, wants to be best. I don´t like him. He´s simply annoying after ten seasons with a dumb storyline. There should be a new beginning: A completely new series with only the pokemon being the same. New Characters with more personality, a good background and an exciting plot that sticks together, which means: No filler episodes or at least less of them.
But it´s obvious that the anime only could revive by a complete reset. The old concept is too simple.

 

[Vernikova]

Why do you guys want to make the show your own personal fanfiction?

 

[JojoX2]

I actually don´t want to make it my fanfiction. I only think that pokemon how it is now has no quality, if I look at the show. It´s only another form of advertisment for the games, the plot is nearly the same. It´s simply not worth watching as it is now. I know, it´s harsh, but it´s my opinion.

 

[randomspot555]

I actually don´t want to make it my fanfiction. I only think that pokemon how it is now has no quality, if I look at the show. It´s only another form of advertisment for the games, the plot is nearly the same. It´s simply not worth watching as it is now. I know, it´s harsh, but it´s my opinion.

It's always been like that. If that's your opinion, then you probably never liked the show. Or if you did, you're just looking at Kanto/Orange/Johto/Hoenn through nostalgia tinted glasses.

 

[Ascaris]

They should remove Ash completely. In the beginning he had a spark of personality: he used to be a dumb guy with little knowledge about pokemon and it was actually pretty funny at times. His inexperience and stupidity is evident in the first episode itself. However since Johto started he became completely bland, just "hurr durr pogaymon mazter me be!!!".

Not to mention that he is also, possibly, the biggest Gary-Stu in the history of Anime.

 

[Max_Damage39]

I'm not sick of Ash (although it would be nice to see someone ELSE challenge the Gyms as well) but I am sick of his douche-baggy voice. I don't understand why they switched voice actors, Veronica Taylor was doing such a brilliant job.

 

[thedestinedblade]

Not really. Just Pikachu. =/

 

[randomspot555]

However since Johto started he became completely bland, just "hurr durr pogaymon mazter me be!!!".

You haven't watched it since Johto then. It's become a much better program with Hoenn and even moreso with Sinnoh. There's an expected blandness, but that goes with any part of the franchise.

Not to mention that he is also, possibly, the biggest Gary-Stu in the history of Anime.

Just because a minority of Internet fans who mostly don't even watch or stopped watching the anime hate Ash doesn't make him a Mary Sue character. I somehow doubt you even know what Mary Sue means, and people abuse that phrase almost as they do "Jump The Shark".

How is Ash a Mary Sue?

Is a writer inserting himself into the story?

Do things always end perfectly for him?

Is Ash shoved down the audience's throat?

Does he have too few flaws?

Too many?

You can't really shove the main character of the show down an audience's throat, because in that case the audience in question doesn't even enjoy the program and should just stop watching.

 

[Ascaris]

You haven't watched it since Johto then. It's become a much better program with Hoenn and even moreso with Sinnoh. There's an expected blandness, but that goes with any part of the franchise.

It's the same story every season. He goes to a new region, meets a new girl, team rocket follow, filler filler filler, he beats the gym leaders, filler filler filler, he participates in the league, filler filler filler and end.

Just because a minority of Internet fans who mostly don't even watch or stopped watching the anime hate Ash doesn't make him a Mary Sue character. I somehow doubt you even know what Mary Sue means, and people abuse that phrase almost as they do "Jump The Shark".

How is Ash a Mary Sue?

Is a writer inserting himself into the story? Yes

Do things always end perfectly for him? Yes

Is Ash shoved down the audience's throat? Yes

Does he have too few flaws? Yes

Too many? Of course.

You can't really shove the main character of the show down an audience's throat, because in that case the audience in question doesn't even enjoy the program and should just stop watching.

Ash appears in every episode of every season and in every single movie. Every episode and movie focuses on him and how he helps some random person or saves the world. A majority of the anime's original following has stopped following the anime. Ratings are decreasing. The show is getting worse and worse.

 

[randomspot555]

Great job of answers with Yes/No! It totally makes me understand your opinion and I can respect that.

Which writer is inserting himself into the form of Ash?

I don't know if you've ever watched the anime, but it doesn't end up perfectly for him. He often learns lessons through humility, he's never gone further than Top 8 at any of the major leagues, there's even a select number of people who just flat out don't like him. He doesn't even win the random trainer battles 100% of the time.

How can he have too few flaws AND too many? Did you actually think these answers through?

Ash appears in every episode of every season and in every single movie.

That's because he's the main character. The show is focused on his story. That isn't being shoehorned into the show, it's the show's main premise.

A majority of the anime's original following has stopped following the anime.

That's because 20 year olds generally don't watch a show aimed for kids age 6-11. It's a kids' television show. It's surprising that it's even still on, considering most have (at best) a shelf life of 5 years. It's ridiculous to actually think that a kids' television show is going to get dedicated, life long fans.

Ratings are decreasing.

Source? Over in another thread, it's in the top 10 in Japan.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-03-02/japanese-anime-tv-ranking-february-2-8 #8. Yeah, doing so horrible.

The show is getting worse and worse.

No, you're just viewing older seasons with rose tinted nostalgia glasses. The ENTIRE FRANCHISE has a certain level of blandness and being repetitive, to expect anything else is delusional. But in Sinnoh, they've drastically reduced COTD, turned a lot into reoccuring roles, filler episodes are pretty cool and few, and Pokemon keep getting developed (except for Brocks). Even when one of them seems to get sidelined, they're back in a spotlight in a few weeks.

 

[JojoX2]

Which writer is inserting himself into the form of Ash?

I would´nt call it writer, but as far as I know Ash is called Satoshi in Japan, just like the pokemon inventor Satoshi Tajiri. Also, he liked collecting bugs when he was a child, which resulted in Pokemon, at least this is what I read some years ago. Ash is named after Satoshi and collects strange creatures, named pokemon. There ARE some paralels.
However, in the other points, I can´t say anything against.

I never wanted to put up a fight^^" Sorry.

 

[Ascaris]

Great job of answers with Yes/No! It totally makes me understand your opinion and I can respect that.

Your sarcasm is hurting my ego. Please stop, my low self-esteem can't take anymore.

Which writer is inserting himself into the form of Ash?

Satoshi Tajiri. Ash has the creator's first name.

I don't know if you've ever watched the anime, but it doesn't end up perfectly for him. He often learns lessons through humility, he's never gone further than Top 8 at any of the major leagues, there's even a select number of people who just flat out don't like him. He doesn't even win the random trainer battles 100% of the time.

No? He's sees every single legendary in the movies. He is the one who ends up saving the day. He doesn't win battles but everything ends well for him. Nothing is wrong with his life.

How can he have too few flaws AND too many? Did you actually think these answers through?

Your "Too many?" question was vague. I took it as "Does he have too many characteristics of a Mary-Sue".

If you could, would you name a few of Ash's flaws for me?

That's because he's the main character. The show is focused on his story. That isn't being shoehorned into the show, it's the show's main premise.

No. The show's main premise is Pokemon. Hence the name of the show, Pokemon. Ash is just a character of the show but it doesn't make sense that he was and still is the main character for over ten seasons or that he is the main character of every single movie. Why the hell does the show rotate around him and him only?

That's because 20 year olds generally don't watch a show aimed for kids age 6-11. It's a kids' television show. It's surprising that it's even still on, considering most have (at best) a shelf life of 5 years. It's ridiculous to actually think that a kids' television show is going to get dedicated, life long fans.

It's the shows quality itself that is deterioating. You can't tell me that it's aimed for pre-teens; that's no excuse for the show being bad. If they want the franchise to last longer they should make major plot revisions and kick out the main characters completely.

Source? Over in another thread, it's in the top 10 in Japan.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-03-02/japanese-anime-tv-ranking-february-2-8 #8. Yeah, doing so horrible.

On the contrary: https://www.pokezam.com/anime/tvratings/

Notice how the ratings have reduced drastically 2005 onwards?

No, you're just viewing older seasons with rose tinted nostalgia glasses. The ENTIRE FRANCHISE has a certain level of blandness and being repetitive, to expect anything else is delusional. But in Sinnoh, they've drastically reduced COTD, turned a lot into reoccuring roles, filler episodes are pretty cool and few, and Pokemon keep getting developed (except for Brocks). Even when one of them seems to get sidelined, they're back in a spotlight in a few weeks.

But it's the same damn thing every single season. No matter how many secondary characters they add in or how many side plots they shove, the anime is still going to be bad unless they make major changes. Wonder why people like the Digimon anime more than pokemon? It's because there is a fresh new plot every single season with new characters and new voice actors. It's not the same with Pokemon. Every single season it's Ash, his stupid voice and him going to beat all the gyms. Would it hurt if they could change that?

Just because you are a total Ash fanboy, don't expect everyone else to be. Most of us are sick of Ash and we want him to get out of the show.

 

[Jorah]

Satoshi Tajiri is not a writer for the anime.

 

[randomspot555]

Satoshi Tajiri. Ash has the creator's first name.

Satoshi Taijri has never been involved in the anime. He is given "Created by" or "Inspired by" or a similar type of credit. Similar to how Stan Lee is an Executive Producer on almost any Spider-Man television show but is rarely involved.

Try again.

No? He's sees every single legendary in the movies. He is the one who ends up saving the day. He doesn't win battles but everything ends well for him. Nothing is wrong with his life.

Well, the movies are debatable at best as to where or if they fall into continuity (with the exception being #1).

But yes, Ash, the main character of the show, saves the world in the movies...you know, similar to how any Pokemon game ever made has something similar.

Seriously, what were you expecting?

Your "Too many?" question was vague. I took it as "Does he have too many characteristics of a Mary-Sue".

If you could, would you name a few of Ash's flaws for me?

Overconfidence, a reluctance to accept change especially in how he trains and battles, reluctance to accept help and ask for help.

Don't get me wrong. These aren't deep flaws that make Ash a character as interesting as Huck Finn, but it's a kid's show so the standard is a bit lower.

No. The show's main premise is Pokemon. Hence the name of the show, Pokemon. Ash is just a character of the show but it doesn't make sense that he was and still is the main character for over ten seasons or that he is the main character of every single movie. Why the hell does the show rotate around him and him only?

The first episode is entirely about him starting his journey. The show is all about him. Without him, there is no show. That doesn't mean Pokemon couldn't exist as an anime, but Pokemon as an anime couldn't exist as it does now without Ash.

It also doesn't help that Pokemon Chronicles wasn't a huge smash hit.

It's the shows quality itself that is deterioating. You can't tell me that it's aimed for pre-teens; that's no excuse for the show being bad. If they want the franchise to last longer they should make major plot revisions and kick out the main characters completely.

The show has been around for over a decade and has no end in site. What is this about the show needing to worry about how long it has to last?

I also can't believe that the show has deteriorated in quality. It's always had a lot of blandness from Day One. Many of the fans who wax nostalgic on Kanto and Orange are jut not viewing them objectively. Certainly if it's improved is a matter of opinion, but I've actually watched Kanto recently. There's no way I'll believe that that's the gold standar that the anime should live up to.

On the contrary: https://www.pokezam.com/anime/tvratings/

Notice how the ratings have reduced drastically 2005 onwards?

That doesn't contradict it being in the top 10 animes in Japan. Got anything more recent than 2006?

But it's the same damn thing every single season. No matter how many secondary characters they add in or how many side plots they shove, the anime is still going to be bad unless they make major changes. Wonder why people like the Digimon anime more than pokemon? It's because there is a fresh new plot every single season with new characters and new voice actors. It's not the same with Pokemon. Every single season it's Ash, his stupid voice and him going to beat all the gyms. Would it hurt if they could change that?

Just because you are a total Ash fanboy, don't expect everyone else to be. Most of us are sick of Ash and we want him to get out of the show.

Not having an irrational hatred of Ash doesn't make me a fanboy. It's just that I see Pokemn for what it is, a relatrively simple kids show that's main purpose is to promote the franchise. And based on that, I enjoy it.

Seriously, everything you described must mean you've never enjoyed the anime. So why wish for something that was obviously never intended to give you any type of pleasure.

As for "most of us are sick of Ash", it's simply because either you never liked the anime, or grew out of it or Pokemon as a whole. simply put, the 50 fans who boycott because of the voice changing cast, or the nostalgia fans hoping for things to "Get better" are irrelevant to the show.

But people who whine and moan about it fall into two categories:

Nostalgia fans who swear it used to be better; and people who want to turn the anime into their own personal fan fic.

 

[OokamiShipper]

Hmm...I guess you can say that he has been over done a little, maybe someone else should be in the spotlight? Because it's been years (not sure whether it counts in the anime time) and he still isn't Pokemon Master.

Yeah, I think a new anime series should start! Preferably based on the Pokemon Special Manga, it has a different main character in each arc. And better ideas, everything's new and original, and just a few nostalgic scenes. And I honestly think it's funnier and more realistic.