Anti
return of the king
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- Kobe's Reality
- Seen Mar 6, 2022
Yeah, it has started. You can find the thread here. This basically means that ghosts of the past (Deoxys-S and Garchomp, long time no see!) will be back to play on Smogon's new suspect ladder, whenever it's up. To summarize, all of the following suspects will be allowed on the same suspect ladder:
Shaymin-S
Garchomp
Latios
Manaphy
Latias
Deoxys-S
Also, if anybody wants to bump the suspect thread from forever ago, feel free to do so. It was pretty much a failure anyway since nobody actually posted, so rather than posting it again, I'll just wait for somebody to post in it (if anybody wants to). I'll move it to the Shoddy Lounge.
Also, you can post RMTs for the new ladder once it's up. But please, don't post some random suspect team you theorymoned. Those are such a waste of everyone's time, and if your team is metagame weak, I won't approve it. I normally don't do that with RMTs so that such poor teams can get the help they need, but the suspect test is generally for players who have a more advanced understanding of the metagame, so if you can't put together a half decent team, I'm not going to approve it.
Back to the test itself, this will be interesting. This thread is here to discuss the new ladder. You can theorymon or talk from personal experiences; I don't really care. However, if you choose to theorymon, please don't act like your opinions are surely correct, as it is called theorymon for a good reason.
As for my own personal thoughts...
I'm quite excited, and since I've been trying to get back into Pokemon for a week or so now, i'll probably start with this. Basically we have the two old suspects, Garchomp and Deoxys-S...from the Astral Projection days. Still, I actually think both will prove to be much less capable than before, especially Deoxys-S. The sweeper set now has to worry about Scizor, which is much more popular than the declining Bronzong ever was. The lead was the big problem though, and that could still be a huge problem. It can still be dealt with by random leads like ScarfGar (lol bad lead) and Scarf Skymin...but that's pretty damn centralizing. I honestly have a hard time theorymoning it since I stopped battling seriously around the time when the lead set became really popular and turned Deoxys-S from a non-issue into a suspect that almost everybody thought was Uber. Time will tell.
Then there's Garchomp...whoa boy. The only threatening sets are the SDer with LO (standard Cresselia still loses, and so do bulky waters with SR support...a given with Garchomp anyway) and CBChomp. However, Lati@s and the return of Deoxys-S will probably Garchomp...I'm not going to say how much since that's impossible to determine and i'd be stupid to act like i know, but it's interesting to think about. Outrage is certainly more dangerous since they can come in and just Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor Garchomp, and it's done (unless it misses...lol). Skymin also can flinch it or Seed Flare it...and Seed Flare hits like a nuke if it's against the few pokemon that dont actually resist it. Still, I expect it to be a huge and probably dominant threat, just like it was before. Garchomp always does have the possibility of abusing Substitute to deal with fast revenge killers, especially since Fire Fang is really only useful for Skarmory and sort of Bronzong. I'm quite fascinated with how Garchomp will turn out...remember, the Garchomp vote took place just as platinum came out, and A LOT has changed since then (like people realizing that sd scizor is a rather average physical sweeper, that registeel is sort of fail, etc). I think the new metagame will hurt Garchomp, but who knows.
Then there is Skymin...Manaphy, watch out! But seriously, this thing is seriously underwhelming and the last suspect I truly tested/cared about. The most obvious ou vote i'll ever advocate probably. Hax just doesnt save something this mediocre...it fell to 17th in usage from 10th for a good reason. The smogon test was honestly a joke that was poorly run at best, so a lot of those uber votes arent very valid =/ ...and probably some of the ou ones too. Either way, this thing...ugh. But that's not the point...what the new metagame will do to it interests me as well. It is faster than all of the other suspects with the exception of Deoxys-S, so it can actually do some damage to them. Its SR weak probably isnt going to be made any less severe, especially with lead Deoxys running around and how Garchomp needs it to do the most damage possible. Still, if people thought sand veil was bad, wait until they see what this thing can do when it comes to being a lucky piece of crap. I think it will hurt Manaphy especially for obvious reasons, and to a lesser extent Garchomp.
Latias...fail. With Latios around, Latias will be out of a job for most things. and yeah, I know extra SDef and Def can be nice etc etc, but let's not kid ourselves - latios is a much better sweeper. Specs Draco Meteor 2HKOes Steel-types...and I don't mean frail ones like Lucario. Timid Latios has more speed and satk than specsmence or modest specs latias. that's pretty insane. Tyranitar doesnt easily run it over like it does with Latias (although latias can bypass it pretty easily but w/e). I knwo the dual screen memento set was a huge fuss, but a lot of good players thought latias was uber. Latios, even without memento, is just a better version. I'll definitely be using it on at least a few of my teams.
Manaphy is probably not going to like the new metagame since it has problems with basically all of the suspects, even Deoxys-S to an extent. However, it is "another brick in the wall" (lol sorry) for Adamant CBchomp, which imo is garchomp's most terrifying set...much more than YacheHype. I havent actually played manaphy so idk though...it's basically theorymon at this point. Still, if there is one pokemon (besides Skymin, who technically wasnt decided) whose tier status I'd expect would change from Stage 3 testing, it would be Manaphy falling to OUs...but of course, that would depend not only on if my predictions were actually correct/Manaphy getting worse, but also the tier placements of the other suspects. Deoxys-S realistically isnt going to be unbanned imo, and ditto on Garchomp and Latios, but Skymin could be trouble...and if Garchomp or Latios is unbanned for whatever reason, that would be trouble.
Oh, we were actually going to post a tournament like this about a week ago but i never got around to it...but hey, with all the hype surrounding it now, all the more reason to get it up eventually.
Can't wait to play on this. Post away!
Shaymin-S
Garchomp
Latios
Manaphy
Latias
Deoxys-S
Also, if anybody wants to bump the suspect thread from forever ago, feel free to do so. It was pretty much a failure anyway since nobody actually posted, so rather than posting it again, I'll just wait for somebody to post in it (if anybody wants to). I'll move it to the Shoddy Lounge.
Also, you can post RMTs for the new ladder once it's up. But please, don't post some random suspect team you theorymoned. Those are such a waste of everyone's time, and if your team is metagame weak, I won't approve it. I normally don't do that with RMTs so that such poor teams can get the help they need, but the suspect test is generally for players who have a more advanced understanding of the metagame, so if you can't put together a half decent team, I'm not going to approve it.
Back to the test itself, this will be interesting. This thread is here to discuss the new ladder. You can theorymon or talk from personal experiences; I don't really care. However, if you choose to theorymon, please don't act like your opinions are surely correct, as it is called theorymon for a good reason.
As for my own personal thoughts...
I'm quite excited, and since I've been trying to get back into Pokemon for a week or so now, i'll probably start with this. Basically we have the two old suspects, Garchomp and Deoxys-S...from the Astral Projection days. Still, I actually think both will prove to be much less capable than before, especially Deoxys-S. The sweeper set now has to worry about Scizor, which is much more popular than the declining Bronzong ever was. The lead was the big problem though, and that could still be a huge problem. It can still be dealt with by random leads like ScarfGar (lol bad lead) and Scarf Skymin...but that's pretty damn centralizing. I honestly have a hard time theorymoning it since I stopped battling seriously around the time when the lead set became really popular and turned Deoxys-S from a non-issue into a suspect that almost everybody thought was Uber. Time will tell.
Then there's Garchomp...whoa boy. The only threatening sets are the SDer with LO (standard Cresselia still loses, and so do bulky waters with SR support...a given with Garchomp anyway) and CBChomp. However, Lati@s and the return of Deoxys-S will probably Garchomp...I'm not going to say how much since that's impossible to determine and i'd be stupid to act like i know, but it's interesting to think about. Outrage is certainly more dangerous since they can come in and just Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor Garchomp, and it's done (unless it misses...lol). Skymin also can flinch it or Seed Flare it...and Seed Flare hits like a nuke if it's against the few pokemon that dont actually resist it. Still, I expect it to be a huge and probably dominant threat, just like it was before. Garchomp always does have the possibility of abusing Substitute to deal with fast revenge killers, especially since Fire Fang is really only useful for Skarmory and sort of Bronzong. I'm quite fascinated with how Garchomp will turn out...remember, the Garchomp vote took place just as platinum came out, and A LOT has changed since then (like people realizing that sd scizor is a rather average physical sweeper, that registeel is sort of fail, etc). I think the new metagame will hurt Garchomp, but who knows.
Then there is Skymin...Manaphy, watch out! But seriously, this thing is seriously underwhelming and the last suspect I truly tested/cared about. The most obvious ou vote i'll ever advocate probably. Hax just doesnt save something this mediocre...it fell to 17th in usage from 10th for a good reason. The smogon test was honestly a joke that was poorly run at best, so a lot of those uber votes arent very valid =/ ...and probably some of the ou ones too. Either way, this thing...ugh. But that's not the point...what the new metagame will do to it interests me as well. It is faster than all of the other suspects with the exception of Deoxys-S, so it can actually do some damage to them. Its SR weak probably isnt going to be made any less severe, especially with lead Deoxys running around and how Garchomp needs it to do the most damage possible. Still, if people thought sand veil was bad, wait until they see what this thing can do when it comes to being a lucky piece of crap. I think it will hurt Manaphy especially for obvious reasons, and to a lesser extent Garchomp.
Latias...fail. With Latios around, Latias will be out of a job for most things. and yeah, I know extra SDef and Def can be nice etc etc, but let's not kid ourselves - latios is a much better sweeper. Specs Draco Meteor 2HKOes Steel-types...and I don't mean frail ones like Lucario. Timid Latios has more speed and satk than specsmence or modest specs latias. that's pretty insane. Tyranitar doesnt easily run it over like it does with Latias (although latias can bypass it pretty easily but w/e). I knwo the dual screen memento set was a huge fuss, but a lot of good players thought latias was uber. Latios, even without memento, is just a better version. I'll definitely be using it on at least a few of my teams.
Manaphy is probably not going to like the new metagame since it has problems with basically all of the suspects, even Deoxys-S to an extent. However, it is "another brick in the wall" (lol sorry) for Adamant CBchomp, which imo is garchomp's most terrifying set...much more than YacheHype. I havent actually played manaphy so idk though...it's basically theorymon at this point. Still, if there is one pokemon (besides Skymin, who technically wasnt decided) whose tier status I'd expect would change from Stage 3 testing, it would be Manaphy falling to OUs...but of course, that would depend not only on if my predictions were actually correct/Manaphy getting worse, but also the tier placements of the other suspects. Deoxys-S realistically isnt going to be unbanned imo, and ditto on Garchomp and Latios, but Skymin could be trouble...and if Garchomp or Latios is unbanned for whatever reason, that would be trouble.
Oh, we were actually going to post a tournament like this about a week ago but i never got around to it...but hey, with all the hype surrounding it now, all the more reason to get it up eventually.
Can't wait to play on this. Post away!
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