[Team Help] Need help on new VGC '16 team.

[MeowPlaysPokemon]

With 2016 rolling around, I thought I'd put some thought into my first vgc 2016 team, which as you probably know, permits up to 2 select previously banned Pokemon. Without further ado, let's get into it!

I decided to combine two strategies I've never attempted before: rain and trick room. I've built this team around the Azumarill/Amoonguss combo, trying to use partners that would support the duo.

Kangaskhan@Kangaskhanite
Scrappy
Adamant
252Atk/252HP/4Def
Sucker Punch
Protect/Fake Out
Return
Low Kick/Hammer Arm

Kangaskhan is normally run speedy, but I've found that a bulky Kang underspeeds much of the meta,and makes for a powerful Pokemon under TR (not so great without it). Hammer Arm, lowering the speed, would make for a useful move, but I don't want my speed lowered in situations where I might need it. I'm undecided on whether I should try Protect or Fake Out. Fake Out could be vital in helping Azu set up a Belly Drum, but Protect can shield it while its partner sets up the Trick Room.

Dialga@Leftovers/Adamant Orb
Pressure
Quiet
252SpAtk/252HP/4Def
Trick Room
Draco Meteor
Flash Cannon
Protect/Earth Power

Dialga is my Trick Room setter, and under the TR, can deal serious special damage (especially with Adamant Orb) I want to make room for ground coverage with Earth Power, but have a hard time turning down the safety of carrying Protect.

Cresselia@Lum Berry
Levitate
Modest (I lack one with a better nature)
252Def/252HP/4SpDef
Trick Room
Helping Hand
Psychic
Ice Beam

Cress serves as a backup TR setter, a Helping Hand booster, and a pokemon with Ice Coverage, useful in a meta with so many dragons. Psychic is just STAB, because chip damage never hurts. Strange but effective EV spread helps it tank physical attacks, with natural special bulk. This Cress takes a Bisharp's Knock Off.

Kyogre@Blue Orb
Drizzle
Quiet
252SpAtk/252HP/4Def
Water Spout
Origin Pulse
Ice Beam/Thunder
Protect

Kyogre sets up the rain, then dominates. Water Spout is powerful spread damage to start off the game, but when hp gets low, i switch to the 110 base power Origin Pulse. Ice Beam and Thunder both have their pluses. Thunder helps take on enemy Kyogre, while Ice Beam is forever appreciated Ice coverage.

Azumarill@Sitrus Berry
Huge Power
Adamant
252Atk/252HP/4SpDef
Aqua Jet
Play Rough
Belly Drum
Protect

Ah, the star of the show: Azumarill. Aqua Jet IN THE RAIN does plenty of damage, so wait till it gets that sweet, sweet +6 boost of Belly Drum, and proceeds to annihilate the opponent. Play Rough under TR is sure to heavily damage, if not OHKO, the opposition. Azumarill's partners are chosen to a) ensure it gets Belly Drum up safely , b) set up TR for azu, or c) add further support via weather.

Amoonguss@Mental Herb
Regenerator
Relaxed
126SpDef/130Def/252HP
Rage Powder
Spore
Protect
Giga Drain

Amoonguss has two purposes. 1. redirect threatening attacks from azumarill and 2. spore everything under TR. Mental Herb makes sure Taunt doesn't disrupt this process and a nice even EV spread ensures this fungal friend can survive a wide range of attacks.

 

[Nah]

I'd just roll with Origin Pulse as your Water STAB on Primal Kyogre. You really want the coverage having both Ice Beam and Thunder provides. Origin Pulse is still plenty powerful and is still a spread move. The fact that Water Spout's damage is based on your HP percentage is gonna make it less effective than you want imo.

May also wanna consider moving Mental Herb onto Cress, since your team is dependent upon Trick Room to function and you'll wanna do all you can to make sure you can get TR off whenever you want without issues.

 

[MeowPlaysPokemon]

I'd just roll with Origin Pulse as your Water STAB on Primal Kyogre. You really want the coverage having both Ice Beam and Thunder provides. Origin Pulse is still plenty powerful and is still a spread move. The fact that Water Spout's damage is based on your HP percentage is gonna make it less effective than you want imo.

May also wanna consider moving Mental Herb onto Cress, since your team is dependent upon Trick Room to function and you'll wanna do all you can to make sure you can get TR off whenever you want without issues.

Thanks. I'll take your advice into account. On another note, do you know of any people on the PC forums I could go to in order to acquire aforementioned Dialga and Kyogre? People who are willing to negotiate a trade? I don't have either of those two Pokemon.

 

[Nah]

Thanks. I'll take your advice into account. On another note, do you know of any people on the PC forums I could go to in order to acquire aforementioned Dialga and Kyogre? People who are willing to negotiate a trade? I don't have either of those two Pokemon.

Best place to look would be the Trade Corner. Look at the Trade Shops subsection to see if anyone has Dialga or Kyogre available, or make a thread in Quick Trades and see if anyone responds there.

 

[Sayuri]

I used to run Hammer Arm Brave Kangaskhan under Trick Room. I just spammed Sucker Punch when Trick Room ended. I found it to be very beneficial, but Low Kick may be the better option with the reintroduction of Pokemon like Dialga and Groudon.

Dialga is better of run with a Life Orb imo, especially if you decide to run Earth Power over Protect (which I honestly don't recommend).

Like Nah said, I'd just go with Origin Pulse, Thunder, Ice Beam, and Protect on Kyogre.

Mental Herb should be moved to Cress, too, as most people are going to expect TR Cress. Thundurus and Liepard are also seeing more use, so Taunt can be very dangerous.

Overall, a pretty solid looking start to your team. If you're looking for a Pokemon to take advantage of both Trick Room and Rain, I might suggest replacing Azumarill with Grass Knot Ludicolo and running a spread of: 100 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpA / 4 SpD / 148 Spe, although that spread may be a little outdated (thanks to Tlaloc's Rain Room team from '15 for it, though). It would also require you to switch out another Pokemon for a physical attacker, as having only one physical attacker obviously isn't a very good route to go.

 

[PlatinumDude]

I used to run Hammer Arm Brave Kangaskhan under Trick Room. I just spammed Sucker Punch when Trick Room ended. I found it to be very beneficial, but Low Kick may be the better option with the reintroduction of Pokemon like Dialga and Groudon.

Dialga is better of run with a Life Orb imo, especially if you decide to run Earth Power over Protect (which I honestly don't recommend).

Like Nah said, I'd just go with Origin Pulse, Thunder, Ice Beam, and Protect on Kyogre.

Mental Herb should be moved to Cress, too, as most people are going to expect TR Cress. Thundurus and Liepard are also seeing more use, so Taunt can be very dangerous.

Overall, a pretty solid looking start to your team. If you're looking for a Pokemon to take advantage of both Trick Room and Rain, I might suggest replacing Azumarill with Grass Knot Ludicolo and running a spread of: 100 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpA / 4 SpD / 148 Spe, although that spread may be a little outdated (thanks to Tlaloc's Rain Room team from '15 for it, though). It would also require you to switch out another Pokemon for a physical attacker, as having only one physical attacker obviously isn't a very good route to go.

Adamant Orb is still a viable option on Dialga, IMO, so it doesn't get worn down as fast and its STAB moves are generally its main attacks.

 

[MeowPlaysPokemon]

After a bit of thinking, I decided to use Meowstic over Cress for the following reasons:
1. Fake Out/Spore or Fake Out/Taunt followed up by another Taunt screws me over when setting up TR. Fake Out/Spore screws me over in general. Meowstic with QuickGuard and Safeguard solves this.
2. Quick Guard helps Azu set up Belly Drum without interference. It can do the same with Dialga and TR.
3. I realised I didn't have any sure checks for Amoongus, so Safeguard takes care of the Spore issue.
4. Self swagger under safeguard opens up options for Kanga and Azu.

Here's the set I've been considering.
Meowstic (M) @Mental Herb
Bold/Calm
Prankster
252HP/126SpDef/130Def
Move set:
Quick Guard
Safeguard
Swagger/Taunt
Protect

Now, I have my reasons for adding Protect. IT IS VITAL. I can use Quick Guard or Safeguard, but not both at the same time, so a Fake Out/Spore doubling in to Meowstic ruins me. Same with Taunt (if it's not Prankster Taunt).

I can't decide whether I want Taunt or Swagger. Self swagger is situational but I feel like Safeguard does the job I want Taunt to do. I need advice on this.

 

[MeowPlaysPokemon]

I used to run Hammer Arm Brave Kangaskhan under Trick Room. I just spammed Sucker Punch when Trick Room ended. I found it to be very beneficial, but Low Kick may be the better option with the reintroduction of Pokemon like Dialga and Groudon.

Dialga is better of run with a Life Orb imo, especially if you decide to run Earth Power over Protect (which I honestly don't recommend).

Like Nah said, I'd just go with Origin Pulse, Thunder, Ice Beam, and Protect on Kyogre.

Mental Herb should be moved to Cress, too, as most people are going to expect TR Cress. Thundurus and Liepard are also seeing more use, so Taunt can be very dangerous.

Overall, a pretty solid looking start to your team. If you're looking for a Pokemon to take advantage of both Trick Room and Rain, I might suggest replacing Azumarill with Grass Knot Ludicolo and running a spread of: 100 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpA / 4 SpD / 148 Spe, although that spread may be a little outdated (thanks to Tlaloc's Rain Room team from '15 for it, though). It would also require you to switch out another Pokemon for a physical attacker, as having only one physical attacker obviously isn't a very good route to go.

See above, please.

 

[MeowPlaysPokemon]

Best place to look would be the Trade Corner. Look at the Trade Shops subsection to see if anyone has Dialga or Kyogre available, or make a thread in Quick Trades and see if anyone responds there.

Thanks. I'd like it if you took a look at my last comment.

 

[Sayuri]

I think Meowstic is a good choice for your team, tbh. Meowstic is one of my favorite Pokemon and it has done a lot for me in the new meta. I personally run:

Meowstic @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Fake Out
- Quick Guard
- Psychic
- Charm

Although I do agree with the Protect thing, it does need it overall. Sad thing is, Meowstic doesn't learn Taunt. I'd run Charm over Swagger for Pokemon like Groudon and ray, but it's totally up to you.

Self-Swagger is kind of gimmicky and unreliable. I wouldn't recommend using it.

As for the EVs, what do they accomplish?

 

[Nah]

Meowstic should be fine. Prankster is a very nice ability, especially on a support 'mon. I agree with Dog Police that Protect is something you'll probably want on it but not so much Swagger. It takes 2 turns to get off the Safeguard+Swagger thing and idk if you'll always have time for that. It has other good support options to pick from like Charm, Helping Hand, Yawn, even Trick Room if you want an extra TR setter, and it gets priority on it too. You could alternatively put on an attack (most likely a STAB move) so Meowstic can do something if taunted twice or if you don't really need any of its support options on that turn.

 

[MeowPlaysPokemon]

After playing around on showdown, I've realized my team is VERY weak to Ferrothorn, who is seeing a lot of usage recently. Only Kangaskhan hits it super- effectively and if it goes down, Ferrothorn can basically win the game. The most useless Pokemon on my team currently is in fact Dialga. I bring it to the least games and rarely use Trick Room. I've embraced the Rain aspect of my team much more, with Meowstic, Kyogre, Azumarill, and Kangaskhan being the Pokemon I bring to almost every game, and Amoonguss being useful, but situational. I've considered teaching Dialga Flamethrower and making it a Life Orb variant to deal with Ferro, but I'm unsure of its compatibility with Rain. I also decided to run dual screens on Meowstic, I find it much more useful than Charm.

 

[MeowPlaysPokemon]

I'm also considering Role Play over Light Screen to wreck unsuspecting Groudon.

 

[MeowPlaysPokemon]

I think Meowstic is a good choice for your team, tbh. Meowstic is one of my favorite Pokemon and it has done a lot for me in the new meta. I personally run:

Meowstic @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Fake Out
- Quick Guard
- Psychic
- Charm

Although I do agree with the Protect thing, it does need it overall. Sad thing is, Meowstic doesn't learn Taunt. I'd run Charm over Swagger for Pokemon like Groudon and ray, but it's totally up to you.

Self-Swagger is kind of gimmicky and unreliable. I wouldn't recommend using it.

As for the EVs, what do they accomplish?

Since you're also running Meowstic, could you possibly give some advice on which route to go with its moveset? There are so many options, but unfortunately only 4 move slots.

 

[Sayuri]

It looks like your Meowstic set is pretty good overall, but honestly I would think of replacing Quick Guard or Safeguard with something a bit more useful. Quick Guard is not nearly as useful in '16 as it was in '14 or '15 (although it's still completely up to you). Same for Safeguard; the only thing it's really good for is disrupting Smeargle's Dark Void.

I'd think of replacing at least one of them and trying Role Play instead. Role Play allows Meowstic to copy Kyogre's Ability and reactivate it after it has been overridden by an opposing Groudon or Rayquaza.

Just a few of my thoughts.

 

[MeowPlaysPokemon]

I find it funny how I built this team around Amoonguss and Trick Room and have since eliminated both of those things, replacing Amoonguss with Rotom and abandoning TR in favor of simple rain.