The Dragon's Den V.4

[dragoniteuser]

I don't have "complete and total knowledge of a mythical beast", nor have i ever said anything that related, but when it comes to dragons, i know A LOT, definetly more than you!
Again, this disscussion is not pokemon related so...

 

[Xilfer]

Ok, here's a question for you:
A question that I think even all of you together won't be able to answer completly accurate,
What makes dragon a dragon?

(A real one, not pokemon...)

I dunno, Reptilliasm?

No, dragons are not lizards, but they are reptiles. They are ALWAYS reptiles, and you'll find a lot of pictures showing fish-like, mammal-like, etc. dragon pictures. Those ARE NOT dragons, and they never will be, no matter what the artist says!
Long necks and horns are optional...

I've been meaning to tell you this but i keep forgeting.
look at the quote above, is speaks only in metaphores, that's not right. You speak in metaphors all the time like "They Are!" and "They Always!" it speaks as if you know everything for sure, when most of the above quote is based on OPINION not absolute fact.
Also, i feel you're becoming kinda hostile.

The picture was adorable.

I've never thought of Gyrados as a dragon. He has the appearence of more of a sea beast then a dragon. Gryados is alomst like a huge electric eel, without the electricity.

Hm, that's what i think, Gyrados shouldn't be a dragon, although 50% of me says it should, i dunno, never really thought about it.

I don't have "complete and total knowledge of a mythical beast", nor have i ever said anything that related, but when it comes to dragons, i know A LOT, definetly more than you!
Again, this disscussion is not pokemon related so...

See, this is what i meant by hostile and metaphors, stop acting like you know everything!

 

[tkallab]

Okay, I think everyone should relax for a bit...

There's one question I'd like to ask you, draggy.
How many of the things you know about dragons are based on the assupmtion that they exist?

I got myself a nice definition of 'dragon' here:
A mythical monster traditionally represented as a gigantic reptile having a lion's claws, the tail of a serpent, wings, and a scaly skin.




Offtopic: By the way, Xilfer, a metaphor is something different XD

 

[Shadow236]

We have already disputed this, Altaria is a BIRD we all agree! and we're not gonna change our minds, it may be handy early on, but it is a bird, not all Dragon types are registered here because we don't CONSIDER them to be dragons, that's what we're disputing right now, wether Kingdra is a dragon or not.

You know, when I ran the older versions of Dragon's Den we put Dragon pokemon on the list if their types were DRAGON. It's inevitable and just because of how it looks doesn't mean it's not a Dragon. Altaria is a dual type between Dragon and Flying. You can't just decide it's not a Dragon and take it off the list, that BS. No matter what you think Altaria is a Dragon. It's kind of like saying the Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun because, I just think it doesn't. But guess what IT DOES.

I don't have "complete and total knowledge of a mythical beast", nor have i ever said anything that related, but when it comes to dragons, i know A LOT, definetly more than you!
Again, this disscussion is not pokemon related so...

How do you know that you know more than him?

 

[tkallab]

You know, when I ran the older versions of Dragon's Den we put Dragon pokemon on the list if their types were DRAGON. It's inevitable and just because of how it looks doesn't mean it's not a Dragon. Altaria is a dual type between Dragon and Flying. You can't just decide it's not a Dragon and take it off the list, that BS. No matter what you think Altaria is a Dragon. It's kind of like saying the Earth doesn't revolve around the Sun because, I just think it doesn't. But guess what IT DOES.

A long time ago, the Den voted wether Altaria was a bird or not. I looked for all arguments for both sides and put them in a list. I think I already posted it earlier, but here is the link again.
If this list makes you agree, then I guess everything´s fine. If you don´t, you can request a revote.
I don´t know much about the old Den, but it´s now a club for Dragons, not just Dragon-typed Pokémon. We don´t judge on looks, but on wether a Pokémon is a Dragon or not. And we spend a lot of time and though into debating about that.

With that being said, darn, it feels like everyone´s in some kind of fight.

 

[dragoniteuser]

Okay, I think everyone should relax for a bit...

There's one question I'd like to ask you, draggy.
1)How many of the things you know about dragons are based on the assupmtion that they exist?

2)I got myself a nice definition of 'dragon' here:
A 3)mythical monstertraditionally represented as a 4)gigantic reptile 5)having a lion's claws, 6)the tail of a serpent, 7)wings, and a 8)scaly skin.




Offtopic: By the way, Xilfer, a metaphor is something different XD

1) Hmm... probably a great deal, but then again, that very assumption is based on my knowledge about dragons, evolution, dinosaurs, etc., etc.

2) Sorry but this is a very bad definition, I'll tell you why:
3) Mythical... sure, but monster..., I wouldn't go that far, cause word monster defines absolutely nothing. There are so many objects that are defined as monster, so that really doesn't help you decide what something is by just calling it a monster. That's like trying to explain someone a horse, and just calling it an animal...
4) No, not all dragons are gigantic, sure, some are big, maybe even gigantic, but definetly not all of them.
5) Wait, "lion's claws"? And where's a difference between lion's and reptile's, or bird's claws? A claw is a claw.
But true, all dragons have claws, as all reptiles have claws.
6) Again, "the tail of a serpent"... Really it looks to me like the person who wrote that did his best to make dragons seem like a fusion of other animal's parts.
A tail is a tail, and all reptiles have tails.
7) I think I said this earlyer. Not all dragons have wings, nor did all of them fly. There are dragons that lived in caves, underground burrows, in sea, etc. that didn't have wings. They lost them by evolving, as they didn't need it.
8) Again "scaly skin". O.o If it's a reptile, it'll have scaly scin, what else kind of skin should it have?

 

[Silhouette]

Terribly sorry for the inactivity, all. My computer died, so I'm not sure when I'll next be on. It shouldn't be too long since I need a computer for school anyway.

It seems I've left at a bad time...

 

[Shadow236]

A long time ago, the Den voted wether Altaria was a bird or not. I looked for all arguments for both sides and put them in a list. I think I already posted it earlier, but here is the link again.
If this list makes you agree, then I guess everything´s fine. If you don´t, you can request a revote.
I don´t know much about the old Den, but it´s now a club for Dragons, not just Dragon-typed Pokémon. We don´t judge on looks, but on wether a Pokémon is a Dragon or not. And we spend a lot of time and though into debating about that.

Your arguement is invalid though because Altaria is Dragon type just like Dragonite and Salamence and Garchomp. Altaria's Dragon type and dragon moves make it a dragon. You said you don't judge on looks so it shouldn't matter that Altaria has bird like looks. The way I see it, you're basically taking a pokemon that is inevitably Dragon type(whether you like it or not) and deciding it's not.

 

[Regeneration]

Your arguement is invalid though because Altaria is Dragon type just like Dragonite and Salamence and Garchomp. Altaria's Dragon type and dragon moves make it a dragon. You said you don't judge on looks so it shouldn't matter that Altaria has bird like looks. The way I see it, you're basically taking a pokemon that is inevitably Dragon type(whether you like it or not) and deciding it's not.

I strongly agree with what he has said. Altaria is a dragon, and physical appearances don't change that fact.

Let me ask you all those who oppose to Altaria being a dragon, why is Altaria in the same egg group as Kingdra, Dratini, etc. who are considered dragons? Aren't they dragons as well? Let me remind you, if they can interbreed, they are supposed to belong to the same species, biologically speaking. Isn't more than an enough proof that Altaria is a dragon regardless of its physical appearances?

 

[dragoniteuser]

Your arguement is invalid though because Altaria is Dragon type just like Dragonite and Salamence and Garchomp. Altaria's Dragon type and dragon moves make it a dragon. You said you don't judge on looks so it shouldn't matter that Altaria has bird like looks. The way I see it, you're basically taking a pokemon that is inevitably Dragon type(whether you like it or not) and deciding it's not.

Very hipocritical of you...
If I'm not mistaken, and I'm not, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Charizard and Aerodactyl were in all previous Dens. They're no dragon typed, yet they were in the club. If a Pokemon that isn't Dragon typed can be in the den, why wouldn't a pokemon that isn't dragon typed be discluded if it obviously isn't a dragon...

If this is a Dragon to you, you should get your eyes checked.

 

[tkallab]

Being Dragon-typed is a heavy-weighing argument on decideing wether a Pokémon is a Dragon or not, but it's never final. The very moment you add a Pokémon into the group that isn't Dragon-typed, the club isn't for Dragon-types, but for Dragons. Logically, this means Dragon-typed Pokémon who we believe aren't Dragons can be removed through a voting.

Also, the egg groups don't mean much either. Farfetch'd can breed with Dewgong... And Ekans would be a Dragon too.

 

[Silhouette]

Terribly sorry for the inactivity, all. My computer died, so I'm not sure when I'll next be on. It shouldn't be too long since I need a computer for school anyway.

It seems I've left at a bad time...

Well, that was quick. I'm back.

Very hipocritical of you...
If I'm not mistaken, and I'm not, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Charizard and Aerodactyl were in all previous Dens. They're no dragon typed, yet they were in the club. If a Pokemon that isn't Dragon typed can be in the den, why wouldn't a pokemon that isn't dragon typed be discluded if it obviously isn't a dragon...

If this is a Dragon to you, you should get your eyes checked.

Lolwut? How was Shadow's post hypocritical?

Being Dragon-typed is a heavy-weighing argument on decideing wether a Pokémon is a Dragon or not, but it's never final. The very moment you add a Pokémon into the group that isn't Dragon-typed, the club isn't for Dragon-types, but for Dragons. Logically, this means Dragon-typed Pokémon who we believe aren't Dragons can be removed through a voting.

Also, the egg groups don't mean much either. Farfetch'd can breed with Dewgong... And Ekans would be a Dragon too.

Farfetch'd breeding with Dewgong is news to me. But in all seriousness, I agree. Here's emphasizing the whole Ekans deal.

It's so hard not to take a side in this argument. :O

 

[Shadow236]

Very hipocritical of you...
If I'm not mistaken, and I'm not, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Charizard and Aerodactyl were in all previous Dens. They're no dragon typed, yet they were in the club. If a Pokemon that isn't Dragon typed can be in the den, why wouldn't a pokemon that isn't dragon typed be discluded if it obviously isn't a dragon...

If this is a Dragon to you, you should get your eyes checked.

Wrong, it obviously is a Dragon, it doesn't matter what it looks like. The creators made it Dragon type because it is a Dragon. In the previous Den's we added Pokemon like Gyrados because we decided they were Dragons. It's really stupid to take a Pokemon that is literally marked as Dragon and say it's not. In all the other versions we would put every Pokemon on the list that is a Dragon, the rest would be substitute to debate.

And my response to you is: if you think Altaria isn't a Dragon apparently you can't read.

 

[tkallab]

And my response to you is: if you think Altaria isn't a Dragon-type apparently you can't read.

There, I fixed it.

No matter how you look at it, Altaria is a Bird. Name one Dragon-like trait it has.

 

[dragoniteuser]

So if Game-freak says oddish is a Fire type, you'd see it as a fire pokemon?

 

[tkallab]

That's probably not the best example, Draggy :/

But indeed, if GameFreak made, let's say, Swellow a Dragon-type, would you buy that? Probably not, right?

Altaria is a bird. Only birds have beaks, and dragons are reptiles. Which aren't birds.

 

[Regeneration]

Also, the egg groups don't mean much either. Farfetch'd can breed with Dewgong... And Ekans would be a Dragon too.

Look at it this way: Ekans does belong to the Dragon egg group because of the fact that it has serpentine traits. Ekans is a snake, obviously. But Ekans is a Poison type Pokemon, not a Poison/ Dragon type. Altaria on the other hand is a Dragon/ Flying type Pokemon and belongs to the Dragon egg group. Farfetch'd being able to breed with Dewgong is a different issue, that is because they belong to the Ground egg group.

Also, another fact to be taken into account is that Altaria is the only Pokemon to be Flying and Dragon egg groups. I think Nintendo wanted Altaria to be an exception to the stereotypical set of Dragons.

It's true that egg groups are just mechanics of the game, but they provide a basis for linking Pokemon together.

 

[Mew~]

So if Game-freak says oddish is a Fire type, you'd see it as a fire pokemon?

Well, yeah. They are the creators after all... xD

Could we maybe now start discussing the 5th generation Dragon types? The games are going to be out soon and i'm sure everyone here has seen the pokémon already.

 

[Shadow236]

That's probably not the best example, Draggy :/

But indeed, if GameFreak made, let's say, Swellow a Dragon-type, would you buy that? Probably not, right?

Altaria is a bird. Only birds have beaks, and dragons are reptiles. Which aren't birds.

Yeah, if GameFreak made Swellow Dragon type, then it would be a Dragon. You guys are acting like the creators are stupid. They wouldn't make oddish fire type alright.... They made Altaria Dragon type because they had a reason too, it's in the Dragon family of pokemon.

 

[Silhouette]

Could we maybe now start discussing the 5th generation Dragon types? The games are going to be out soon and i'm sure everyone here has seen the pokémon already.

You can discuss 5th gen dragons, but please keep it in spoilers. I've been trying to avoid spoiling Black and White for myself, and I'm sure I can't be the only one... okay, maybe I am... :P