The general competitive standard: Rules

No according to COMPETITIVE gameplay standards. The lati@s are NOT uber if they are not holding the soul dew item. It isnt changing because that is the general rule given out.

Apperently, For nintendo specific events. The lati@s are allowed with out the item known as soul dew. However for competitive standards its completely debatable. So for right now I will leave the general statement up until something is completely set in stone about the Lati@s
 
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Abby said:
I think that Lati@s is uber regardless of its item. It's a superior Draco Meteor Pokemon to Salamence in so many ways it isn't funny:

Faster
No 4x ice weak
Calm Mind
Recover

And a better movepool. I thought it was consensus that they're banned regardless.
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Okay, so it has a nice Draco Meteor, and Calm Mind is nice too. I doubt you'll see both on the same set. Draco Meteor will be used on a choice specs, which can be beaten with careful prediction, like all choice sets, and the calm mind variants can be beaten by a nice wall.

Also, the aspect of a better movepool holds no water whatsoever. Lati@s suffers from the 4 move syndrome, where basically every set is the same. Dragon Pulse/Psychic/Calm Mind/Recover is pretty much the standard, and I suspect a Choice Specs variant will have something similar to Draco Meteor/Psychic/Thunderbolt/Surf, possibly with Dragon Pulse, Shadow Ball or Energy Ball thrown in there. It's no more frightenting than some other special sweepers, and gets beaten by the same walls and prediction.

Another thing to take note of is that Salamence can be bred. It is very difficult to catch a good IV'd Lati@s, especially as often they are runners, and you only have one opportunity. With Salamence, you can be assured of good IVs with breeding.
 
Nightofshadow said:
No according to COMPETITIVE gameplay standards. The lati@s are NOT uber if they are not holding the soul dew item. It isnt changing because that is the general rule given out.

Apperently, For nintendo specific events. The lati@s are allowed with out the item known as soul dew. However for competitive standards its completely debatable. So for right now I will leave the general statement up until something is completely set in stone about the Lati@s
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Nintendo is an inconsistent standard: one tournament a friend of mine is attending an official tournament that allows the Latis regardless. But yeah, it is debatable, and this isn't the place to do it. ^_^;

Action said:
Okay, so it has a nice Draco Meteor, and Calm Mind is nice too. I doubt you'll see both on the same set. Draco Meteor will be used on a choice specs, which can be beaten with careful prediction, like all choice sets, and the calm mind variants can be beaten by a nice wall.

Also, the aspect of a better movepool holds no water whatsoever. Lati@s suffers from the 4 move syndrome, where basically every set is the same. Dragon Pulse/Psychic/Calm Mind/Recover is pretty much the standard, and I suspect a Choice Specs variant will have something similar to Draco Meteor/Psychic/Thunderbolt/Surf, possibly with Dragon Pulse, Shadow Ball or Energy Ball thrown in there. It's no more frightenting than some other special sweepers, and gets beaten by the same walls and prediction.

Another thing to take note of is that Salamence can be bred. It is very difficult to catch a good IV'd Lati@s, especially as often they are runners, and you only have one opportunity. With Salamence, you can be assured of good IVs with breeding.
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That said...you can beat Mewtwo with the right combination of moves and Pokemon. That doesn't mean it's fair by any means. Choice Specs Mewtwo is scary indeed. Salamence is already considered a huge problem even without those excellent traits that the Latis have.

Its movepool isn't a huge advantage; all I'm saying is that it has a better once than Salamence. Mostly Thunderbolt.

What about Eon Ticket Lati@s? Are they generated at the start of the game or when you talk to them? It's just as reasonable to get a good Lati@s that way as it is to breed a Salamence, bar the advantage of Everstone Traiting. But even then, you could Synchronize Lati@s.
 
Blehh, I'm really impartial to Mew being on the uber list...
 
Abby said:
Nintendo is an inconsistent standard: one tournament a friend of mine is attending an official tournament that allows the Latis regardless. But yeah, it is debatable, and this isn't the place to do it. ^_^;



That said...you can beat Mewtwo with the right combination of moves and Pokemon. That doesn't mean it's fair by any means. Choice Specs Mewtwo is scary indeed. Salamence is already considered a huge problem even without those excellent traits that the Latis have.

Its movepool isn't a huge advantage; all I'm saying is that it has a better once than Salamence. Mostly Thunderbolt.

What about Eon Ticket Lati@s? Are they generated at the start of the game or when you talk to them? It's just as reasonable to get a good Lati@s that way as it is to breed a Salamence, bar the advantage of Everstone Traiting. But even then, you could Synchronize Lati@s.
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I dont see why not to debate about it here considering its debatable everywhere else =P
 
I usually find people to fight on Japanese forums and such (time zone difference between HK and Japan isn't so bad), so I'm pretty surprised by the rule acceptance difference...

Anyhow seeing how this topic is on discussions on rules, may I ask a few questions?

1. Double Team/Evasion clause - I don't really get the point of this clause. I mean, it renders some Pokemon (like Simple Bibarel with Swagger, Sub, Thunderwave and DT) useless.
Also, isn't stalling and making the opponent tired, thus lowering his ability to think a good psychological tactic?

2. One hit KO clause - Again, I don't get this. While I do understand people don't like "luck-gaming", isn't it the users choice to waste his turn with a move that only hits by 30%?
Also in most circumstances, it's not that hard to tell which Pokemon has the potential to use a OHKO move, thus allowing you to take early action.
 
In pokemon there are moves such as lock on and mind reader which make your attacks not miss. Combo'ed in with ohKO's It because a pain because now they WILL not miss their attack on the next turn. In other words, No not fair and isnt allowed.

Double team can be VERY annoying but that isnt the only reason people do not like it. Could you imagine a fully double team'd skarmory with its insane amounts of defense? Just throwing spikes all day while his opponents misses the majority of his attacks? Better yet, How about a double team'd scizor or blissey. VERY huge pain in the butt to deal with
 
Thanks for the quick reply.
However, there are still points I'd like to ask.
Nightofshadow said:
In pokemon there are moves such as lock on and mind reader which make your attacks not miss. Combo'ed in with ohKO's It because a pain because now they WILL not miss their attack on the next turn. In other words, No not fair and isnt allowed.
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Isn't the only Pokemon that can use OHKO+100% hit moves Smeargle? I know Articuno can, but I don't see them a lot in battle.
I think Poliwrath could in GSC, but that was generations ago.

As for the point on DT, I finally understand why it's hated so much.
I guess the biggest contributer is the popularity of level 100 matches on English forums when compared to Japanese ones.
 
Yeah, There arent many pokemon that have the OHKO and "lock on type" ability/move in their movesets. I agree with that but it still isnt worth allowing because if it was allowed, Honestly i would use it every chance i had =P
 
Well the Double Team thing is still a battle tactic regardless. Sure I know its a pain in the butt but in my honest opinion it should be allowed to a certain degree.

The other side to this is you have 6 turns to eliminate the Pokemon before they have maxxed out on Double Team. But hey if i could rewrite the clause it would be something along the lines that only one Pokemon can know Double Team.
 
I didnt make the clause up. Its standard competitive terms. When they change it, I will change it until then it remains the same
 
I know. I was merely just stating what was on my mind. ^_^
 
I think the most frustrating thing about Double Team is that any Pokemon can learn it, and potentially after one use it's possible to evade your way to a full six uses (growing more likely with each successful DT). Combined with a recovery move or even Rest, it really changes the game.

OHKO moves seem fine to me...they seem like a nice way to balance some of the tanking, though that's not as big of an issue anymore. Netbattle isn't particularly a standard either, but they removed the clause for their Advance client.

But I think the point of the thread is to inform people of the clauses that are out there, fair or not. So maybe a OHKO or Double Team clause isn't fair, but they should still know what it is~
 
Doulbe team is basically a broken move. The most serious situation is this: Double Team Umbreon. The thing already has monster defenses, and DT makes it worse. A simple set of DT/Protect/Wish/Baton Pass will destroy teams. Imagine passing 6 DTs to a Belly Drum Charizard or a Focus Puncher like Breloom, who can sleep your counter. Yes there are moves that have perfect accuracy, such as swift, but these moves are weak and can hardly ent things like Skarmory and Umby.

And as for OHKO, it stands to reason that while often these teams won't work out, they do have the chance to completely win a battle by pure luck against someone is would typically be their superior. Also, imagine a team of Spore/Lock-on/Sub/SheerCold Smeargles. Unfair imo. Also for kicks, imagine that Smargle having 6 DTs passed to it by an Umbreon.

And that, people, is why those clauses exist.

And Netbattle generally is the standard. While the DT/OHKO clauses are not built in automatically, the majority of the servers have them implemented, along with ones that prevent hax item use.
 
I agree that OHKO should not be allowed, as it could let a crappy player win on luck alone. Also, there's stuff like Wide Lens and moves to raise your accuracy (besides Lock-On).

I've always stood with the opinion that DT should be allowed. I don't use it, because I don't think it's a particularly great strategy these days, but it's still a strategy nonetheless and therefore should be permitted.
 
So.... people don't allow the use of Double Team in battles?

So basically, my Ninjask is useless?
 
Here is just a thought. If you allowed BT Pokemon and OHKO Pokemon wouldnt it balance out the game?

Sure they can DT to thier hearts delight but what about a Pokemon like Smeargle who uses Lock On then Sheer Colds you to death. In my opinion they balance each other out. ^_^
 
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Yea I dont understand why DT/MM is so bad? Isnt that what, Shock Wave, Faint Attack, Aerial Ace, etc are for? The whole point to tactics is to use trumping moves. Theres ways around everything. Theres always Haze. That will deplete all the uped evasiveness. I just dont get it.

I can see the one hit KO moves. With Machop/choke/champs new ability. All moves have 100% acuracy while hes on the field. So yea unfair. Would wipe you away quickly. Just the DT/MM attacks. Doesnt make sence.

Everly
 
Action said:
Doulbe team is basically a broken move. The most serious situation is this: Double Team Umbreon. The thing already has monster defenses, and DT makes it worse. A simple set of DT/Protect/Wish/Baton Pass will destroy teams. Imagine passing 6 DTs to a Belly Drum Charizard or a Focus Puncher like Breloom, who can sleep your counter. Yes there are moves that have perfect accuracy, such as swift, but these moves are weak and can hardly dent things like Skarmory and Umby.

And as for OHKO, it stands to reason that while often these teams won't work out, they do have the chance to completely win a battle by pure luck against someone is would typically be their superior. Also, imagine a team of Spore/Lock-on/Sub/SheerCold Smeargles. Unfair imo. Also for kicks, imagine that Smargle having 6 DTs passed to it by an Umbreon.

And that, people, is why those clauses exist.

And Netbattle generally is the standard. While the DT/OHKO clauses are not built in automatically, the majority of the servers have them implemented, along with ones that prevent hax item use.
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Also note that a mind reader/sheercold combo will not necessarily beat a DT'er. Sure the ohko move will have perfect acc, but Mind Reader/Lock-on will not. So you have to first hit with that before you can use the OHKO.
 
Everly84 said:
Yea I dont understand why DT/MM is so bad? Isnt that what, Shock Wave, Faint Attack, Aerial Ace, etc are for? The whole point to tactics is to use trumping moves. Theres ways around everything. Theres always Haze. That will deplete all the uped evasiveness. I just dont get it.

I can see the one hit KO moves. With Machop/choke/champs new ability. All moves have 100% acuracy while hes on the field. So yea unfair. Would wipe you away quickly. Just the DT/MM attacks. Doesnt make sence.

Everly
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The only one of those moves that you mentioned that is even used is aerial ace. Thats it. And who would use it if the pokemon obviously has better options? This might sound offensive, But to those who play "for fun" Of course its going to seem unfair. But in a tournament/competitive environment its a whole different ball game.
 
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